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Old 01/05/12, 9:47 AM   #61
jageddowes
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Alterac Mountains
Last night we took down Heroic Yor'sahj in 10man.

I'll provide a more detailed strat if someone needs it but at a glimpse this is what we did:

I one tanked it, 3 heals (could be done with 2) and perfect dps comp (all buffs/debuffs). I don't have Mirror so I went with Indomitable and Scales (doesn't add stacks) and unglyphed 4set. Every set with adds I would take the boss to approx. 5/6 stacks of Bolt which seemed ok, if damage was too high I'd have a pain suppression waiting for me. All phases without adds 3 stacks (very manageable).

We used Hero when we had no adds (no black ooze) to maximize damage on the boss, and killed one black to make sure we made the enrage timer.

At the end we decided to stay on the boss and burn him, maybe a bad idea, thankfully our mage ice blocked at 1% and the dots killed it.

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Old 01/05/12, 10:15 AM   #62
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
In terms of a bearcat offtank I usually go with this spec
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Dragon Soul is pretty much designed to be a 1 tank place, with some fights with 1.5 tanks (but never really 2 full tanks. Morchok and Ultraxion is about as close as it gets but they hit like wimps to begin with even on heroic mode).

Nurturing Instinct is probably one of the most situational (yet good) talent in the spec. A tranquility with +7-8k healing during a time of need can easily determine between a wipe and a kill on progression nights. While this is a bear thread, I also want to comment that on 1.5 tank fights (so Yor'saj on 25man, Blackhorn, and Madness if you don't have a DK), Stampede gets very limited use since you can't Cat charge effectively anyway, and it only somewhat diminishes 4piece (cat).

Blackhorn on heroic hits really hard when he's at low HP so Indomitable Pride is really really good for that fight, and I'd definitely use that even if you're dpsing in p1.

For fights with very heavy magic damage I'll probably take Perseverance on progression nights, but 6% spell damage for 3 talent points really is rather lackluster for anything apart from a full tank spec.

On the subject of Mastery. There is no reported hidden cap, but people need to remember that you're not going to see a flat percent increase. A 176% shield increase to 180% is not a 4% flat increase. This is just math.

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Old 01/06/12, 12:52 PM   #63
Hura
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Auchindoun (EU)
I've got a question for you lads.

I'm currently fully stacked on Agility, trinket of Rag etc. I have no gem of stamina, nor any enchant (not even head/shoulder)

My guild's going to progress on Warlord - and my question is: From this point on in the dragon soul, is agility as hightly valued as it was back in firelands? Or is a stamina build better overall?

I've taken a look at your armory Xeno, and I see you've gemmed semistamina, semiagility. In this case, what's a good balance between the two stats? I do not have Wrath of Unchaining unfortunately :/

Cheers in advance

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Old 01/06/12, 1:23 PM   #64
jageddowes
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by Hura View Post
I've got a question for you lads.

I'm currently fully stacked on Agility, trinket of Rag etc. I have no gem of stamina, nor any enchant (not even head/shoulder)

My guild's going to progress on Warlord - and my question is: From this point on in the dragon soul, is agility as hightly valued as it was back in firelands? Or is a stamina build better overall?

I've taken a look at your armory Xeno, and I see you've gemmed semistamina, semiagility. In this case, what's a good balance between the two stats? I do not have Wrath of Unchaining unfortunately :/

Cheers in advance
I've been supporting a healthy mix as in several of my previous posts, specially due to the high damage spikes and spell damage.

I've always been agil/stam build and has worked wonders for me. Xeno used to be all agil and has switched to agil/stam, I guess it's working for him too.

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Old 01/06/12, 2:03 PM   #65
Xenoborg
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Illidan
I've done a lot of swapping back and forth on gems, and still think the best way to go about it is it pick a health level you and your healers are comfortable with and gem to it. For me and my guild that was about 240k for heroic 25s.

Right now I'm probably a little too heavy on stam, having 260k buffed using wrath/pride. Nothing other than phase 2 Blackhorn has any real chance to burst me down. Economics also did play a role in my gem choices, Purples were 1/10th the price of reds, so I could afford to go full epic gems on the first week of heroics.

On a sad note, my guild just stopped raiding at 5/8H, so while I will still do theorycraft, it's less likely I'll be able to give first hand experience and testing unless I get into another top guild.

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Old 01/06/12, 3:21 PM   #66
jageddowes
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by Xenoborg View Post
I've done a lot of swapping back and forth on gems, and still think the best way to go about it is it pick a health level you and your healers are comfortable with and gem to it. For me and my guild that was about 240k for heroic 25s.

Right now I'm probably a little too heavy on stam, having 260k buffed using wrath/pride. Nothing other than phase 2 Blackhorn has any real chance to burst me down. Economics also did play a role in my gem choices, Purples were 1/10th the price of reds, so I could afford to go full epic gems on the first week of heroics.

On a sad note, my guild just stopped raiding at 5/8H, so while I will still do theorycraft, it's less likely I'll be able to give first hand experience and testing unless I get into another top guild.
Our guild took a dive during the holidays but we are recruiting non stop and are back at quota for the most part, working on 3/8H 25m.

You are welcome to come over Xeno =p.

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Old 01/06/12, 3:43 PM   #67
Gonzabear
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Bloodfeather (EU)
I have also been figuring about the gemming and checked forums all around and even players characters.
i see that now with DS hc's ppl start to regemming this is the modes ive seen

Pure stam = (i think the inc damage will be more spikey)
Pure agi = (more balanced inc damage as higher dodge & mastery mintigation, but more viable to high in 1 hit dmg as i understand its 2 fights in ds that have that)
stam+agi = (a balance of both above)
Correct me if im wrong as i are no good on theorycrafting and are totally broken in mind how to go as we progressin on hc modes. i am figuring to regem everything to combined agi+stam gems can that be a good choice?

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Old 01/06/12, 5:04 PM   #68
jageddowes
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by Gonzabear View Post
I have also been figuring about the gemming and checked forums all around and even players characters.
i see that now with DS hc's ppl start to regemming this is the modes ive seen

Pure stam = (i think the inc damage will be more spikey)
Pure agi = (more balanced inc damage as higher dodge & mastery mintigation, but more viable to high in 1 hit dmg as i understand its 2 fights in ds that have that)
stam+agi = (a balance of both above)
Correct me if im wrong as i are no good on theorycrafting and are totally broken in mind how to go as we progressin on hc modes. i am figuring to regem everything to combined agi+stam gems can that be a good choice?
When in doubt, you can go agil/stam. You don;t have to theorycraft much. Just acknowledge which boss does which type of damage on a higher percentage and spikes. Agility means shit vs Spell damage but it's great vs physical, a bit more stam allows you to survive a couple huge hits.

Basically , what I always recommend is go with a healthy mix in gemming and chants and have different trinkets for different fights. Read all the previous posts, there's plenty of information about it.

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Old 01/09/12, 6:10 PM   #69
lairpie
Don Flamenco
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Shadowmoon
Alternately, for people that tank sometimes, damage sometimes, going heavy agility in anything you'd use for fights where you're largely damaging and favoring stamina in gear you'd only use for tanking gets you about the same results tanking wise, but is a bit better for your damage when not tanking.

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Old 01/18/12, 12:21 PM   #70
Kittyparry
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Maiev
I've always done all stam and had no problems what so ever.
It really helps in "oh no" situations. I can pop SI and since I have more health I can survive longer with the damage reduction if a healer has a slight mishap.

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Old 01/19/12, 8:29 PM   #71
Daylis
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
Sunstrider (EU)
We're progressing on Spine 10h.
My mainspec is boomkin.
I went feral OT, retaining ~75%+ damage and freeing up another dps spot.

Now, obviously, i'm the Amalgamation tank. It goes supernova, i kitty ravish the tendon. I've had about 3/4 tank spec&gear on the few tries we had and did ~750k damage per tendon burst phase. As we're still close to not killing them in 2 phases sometimes, i need to improve my burst on it in 20sec window as much as possible.

Unfortunately, i'm not familiar with Amalgamation tank role on Spine. From what i gather, magic damage taken is almost negligable, freeing 3 points from Perserverance. In general, i was thinking of using Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft.
I likely won't be able to rely on my warr tank to keep thunder clap on amalgamation whole time with all the blood kiting he has to do as well as keeping bloods away from me, so that's probably 2 points back in Infected Wounds.
Endless carnage seems a bit questionable, what do you reckon it's usefulness is on tendon burst?

Savage roar glyph instead of Lacerate. Building 2-3 CP SR on bloods/amalgamation before tendon.

The main part is gearing and gemming of course. Dare i affort full agility gemming?
The gear i have available is offspec, so 5t12heroic, 4t13 LFR, a random scattering of 410 offpieces. I'm wondering, for people who have progressed on Spine further, need i downgrade my gear to t13 LFR for the 4piece? Seems it would be massively useful on barrel rolls.

Then, reforging. Obviously, get as much expertise away as possible. Mastery seems undervalued in a 20sec window as well (1 set of FB'd rip&rake only). Haste in a similar position with Berserk being used on every second tendon.
At first look, i'm placing my bet on crit, goes hand in hand with Berserk as well as dots in the limited window.

Last question... trinkets. I've Seed, Wrath, Matrix(normal, can get my hands on hc when it drops), Starcatcher Compass hc (the 2min icd haste proc seems really bad) and next week, Kirotyric Sigil.
Wrath+Seed seem best at first glance, but bear in mind i am also an engineer (Synapse Springs).

Thanks! ^^

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Old 01/20/12, 4:08 AM   #72
Rhy
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Maelstrom (EU)
Without knowing your strategy in detail, I don't think I can give you a very useful advice for your specific situation. It really depends how much you need to tank, and how much time you have to just dps Amalgamations freely in cat form. But most importantly it depends how you are handling the blood. What I can do is give break down what I did on my Spine kill, and then you can draw your own conclusions or ask further, with a bit more specific questions.

Spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
This is the one I used. I have to off-tank 3 of the Amalgamations (4th,5th,6th). The damage I take on the 4th and 5th is so low that I did not find it necessary to have Pulverize. For the 6th one, I had to pick up quite a lot of bloods, but I could chain SI and then BS + Frenzied while the paladin was kiting the majority of the blood. Damage did not prove to be a problem again.
Infected Wounds would be useful if you don't have another source of the debuff and if you will be tanking Amalgamation with high blood stacks for long period of time. If the blood is killed, and then you simply drag it through to get the stacks, BS is enough to keep you safe and not stress your healers a whole lot, even without Infected Wounds.
For the glyphs use Rip, Berserk and Savage Roar.

Gear and gemming, use T13 with full agility gemming. You should not need any extra stamina. The set bonuses are also extremely good for both the burst on the tendon and for your raid.

You guessed the reforging just right. Make sure you stay hit capped tho. It is extremely important for the burn. After that it goes: crit > mastery > haste > exp. You will not get any relevant amount of energy through haste, so reforge as much out as you can. The tendon also can't dodge or parry (it's channeling) so drop as much exp as well. Mastery still has some benefit, but it is nowhere near crit. However, if you are having problem with the tanking part, you can prioritize mastery over crit. The burst dps will go down, but the survivability will improve.

Wrath + Seed right now, Wrath + Sigil asap. The VP trinket is a must for (almost)any dps on that fight.

As for the "rotation" on the burn, start off by getting SR up and using Feral Charge on a Corruption or blood to get Stampede. Pool as much energy as you can before the tendon appears.
FFF > Mangle > !Ravage > Rake > Shred to burn extra energy > TF/Trinket/Berserk > Rip > Rake > !Ravage > Shred > Bite

Use FB only if you have 60 or more energy, otherwise spam Shred. Always use FB in the last second before the Tendon disappears. Especially during Heroism, spam as much FB as you can with the extra energy.

Don't underestimate the amount of damage Rip or Rake can do. It can be anywhere between 200 and 300k for me, depending on the crits. On average, I can pull off ~1.2-1.3 mil with Berserk and down to ~600-700k on the 2nd burn with only TF and trinket. If you want to check some logs, you can do it here: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

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Old 01/26/12, 5:03 PM   #73
salnar
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Shattered Halls
Hey guys. My guild is currently progressing on Heroic Yor'sahj, and I'm tanking it. We are two healing it, and it seems to me that I'm taking a lot of damage, especially on the Greed-Red-Yellow-Black combo (we kill green). I use my frenzied regen (unglyphed) during that combo, with barkskin, and get up to about 5/6 stacks of void bolt and pop SI. We usually survive that, but if we get another one of those combos right after, i have no CD's up except barkskin, and I die when the void bolt stacks get high. So my question is, is going completely stam better for this fight, or should i try agi/stam gems in every socket? Is there a way to maximize my CD's more efficiently? Any help I could get would be much appreciated.

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Old 01/26/12, 6:18 PM   #74
Hardane
Softie
 
Hardane's Avatar
 
Gel
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
Give the [Mirror of Broken Images] a try.

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Old 01/27/12, 1:40 AM   #75
Fréddie
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Nordrassil (EU)
Any help I could get would be much appreciated.
Use two tanks.

PS.
I apologize for the extreme brevity of this post. What I meant to say was that void bolt is obviously meant to force you into using a second tank. While solo tanking it is certainly possible, especially with a blood dk, it's probably not a good idea with the other tank classes. As the poster after me mentioned, ferals make excellent off tanks on this fight. Taking a few stacks of the void bolt, but otherwise dpsing should allow you to meet the dps requirements while still spreading the debuff on two "tanks".

Last edited by Fréddie : 01/30/12 at 10:39 AM.

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