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Old 12/13/11, 10:28 PM   #16
Harlsta
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmourne
Originally Posted by Rainman5419 View Post
How does this comparison look both WITH and WITHOUT the 4pc t12 bonus?
This is what I want to know.
Assuming that its only a dps increase if you can use Feral Charge to get 2 Ravages in as otherwise you really only get 1 Ravage every 27 (glyphed) 30 (un) seconds which would be the same as just using Feral Charge and not having the 4 set bonus.
With Dragon Soul it would seem on a few fights where dps counts, Tendon on Spine, Ultraxion and Id assume the Limb on Madness you cant use Feral Charge, So that leaves 5 bosses, 4 if your not quick enough to get back in melee range on Warlord.
As well as most tier pieces having expertise or hit. To me just looking at the tier, It doesn't look like its worth it.
I'm sure that if you had a chance to take heroic tier over non-heroic items, you'd take it as its a 40agi upgrade minimum.

That's just some facts that have been sitting in my head which has been turning me off the 4 piece and would just like to know what other people think about it?
ATM my Rawr is playing up just not starting so I have to fix that up but I dont think Rawr takes into account that fact that you can't run out every 28 seconds to use Feral Charge, It's just numbers on a tank and spank fight.

And that's not to take into account that if you have your 4 piece, Depending on your raid set up, You might have to go into Bear and use Survival Instincts which would be a minimum of 15 second dps lose.
(Highly doubt that would happen unless your raid group has very minimum raid cd)

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Old 12/14/11, 10:44 AM   #17
BOHIC
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Thrall
Originally Posted by Harlsta View Post
This is what I want to know.
Assuming that its only a dps increase if you can use Feral Charge to get 2 Ravages in as otherwise you really only get 1 Ravage every 27 (glyphed) 30 (un) seconds which would be the same as just using Feral Charge and not having the 4 set bonus.
With Dragon Soul it would seem on a few fights where dps counts, Tendon on Spine, Ultraxion and Id assume the Limb on Madness you cant use Feral Charge, So that leaves 5 bosses, 4 if your not quick enough to get back in melee range on Warlord.
As well as most tier pieces having expertise or hit. To me just looking at the tier, It doesn't look like its worth it.
I'm sure that if you had a chance to take heroic tier over non-heroic items, you'd take it as its a 40agi upgrade minimum.

That's just some facts that have been sitting in my head which has been turning me off the 4 piece and would just like to know what other people think about it?
ATM my Rawr is playing up just not starting so I have to fix that up but I dont think Rawr takes into account that fact that you can't run out every 28 seconds to use Feral Charge, It's just numbers on a tank and spank fight.

And that's not to take into account that if you have your 4 piece, Depending on your raid set up, You might have to go into Bear and use Survival Instincts which would be a minimum of 15 second dps lose.
(Highly doubt that would happen unless your raid group has very minimum raid cd)
The first post is misleading in that, on fights where you wouldn't otherwise be able to Feral Charge a Ravage or for players who don't have the raid awareness to make FC->R a dps increase, the 4set is still a worthwhile bonus. The ability to shift to bear to provide a raid healing CD is a great benefit as well. I haven't seen mentioned yet whether Nurturing Instinct (the "Agility increases your healing spells" part of it) increases the Mass Regen effect. Has anyone tested that out?

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Old 12/14/11, 12:19 PM   #18
Xenoborg
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Illidan
Looking at my logs from last night I can say that Nurturing Instinct has no effect (or an extremely small effect) on either the tics on yourself or the tics you give to the raid.

WOL search of mass regeneration during Ultraxion where I had Nurturing Instinct

[22:47:04.164] Xenoborg Frenzied Regeneration Xenoborg +10107
[22:47:04.295] Xenoborg Mass Regeneration Ruskó +2527

I had 256k (rounded) normal maximum health at the time, giving 332.8k during regen, with an expected healing tic of 9990. The actual value was 1.15% higher, but I believe this is due to a slight further increase in my health from a resto shaman. The mass regen tic was the expect 25% of the tick on me.

As an additional note, if you are using the 4pc raid cooldown as a cat, you should have it glyphed. The health and healing bonus will persist even if you immediately return to cat form. You also would likely not have the rage to power the unglyphed version anyway.

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Old 12/15/11, 6:49 AM   #19
Tars
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Outland (EU)
Originally Posted by Xenoborg View Post
As an additional note, if you are using the 4pc raid cooldown as a cat, you should have it glyphed. The health and healing bonus will persist even if you immediately return to cat form. You also would likely not have the rage to power the unglyphed version anyway.
I don't see how rage can be an issue, as you have to spend 15 seconds in bear before you even cast Mass Regeneration on a raid.

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Old 12/15/11, 8:21 AM   #20
Cedrich
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Zenedar (EU)
Originally Posted by Tars View Post
I don't see how rage can be an issue, as you have to spend 15 seconds in bear before you even cast Mass Regeneration on a raid.
I'm sure he means rage to sustain the HoT effect. Without a tank level damage income I doubt you'd be able to sustain the huge rage cost for the entire duration of the effect.

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Old 12/15/11, 10:03 AM   #21
Husyor
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Starting with full rage and just auto attacking on a test dummy, I was very easily able to keep enough rage and I didn't use enrage either.

On another note, when you guys drop 4pT12, are you shred spamming during berserk or still using FB once you get 5cp. I know previously I would shred spam, but once I got 4p it was better to FB for the extended duration.

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Old 12/16/11, 8:58 AM   #22
Harlsta
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmourne
Originally Posted by Husyor View Post
On another note, when you guys drop 4pT12, are you shred spamming during berserk or still using FB once you get 5cp.
This actually never crossed my mind. Every time I use Berserk, I would spam Shred (while maintaining bleeds) and once I got 5cp I would use FB. I believe just spamming Shred you would lose some dps as you're just wasting cp. But with that if Rip or SR will drop, Id make sure to put them up before I use a FB, Unless I got 5cp up and SR is going to drop, Id use FB and then just put 1 or 2 cp SR just enough to maintain it to finish of Berserk.

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Old 12/16/11, 2:06 PM   #23
Bartesh
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Undermine
NElf racial bonus

I haven't seen this posted on the Feral guides before, but a NElf can shadowmeld in cat form. Doing so allows the use of stealth abilities while stationary; while minor, there are certain scenarios where an immediate stun (Pounce) is helpful, or a Ravage mid-fight (when the target is over 80% health especially). Fights like Madness allow the use of Ravage every two minutes, which can be helpful for starting off on an Arm or Wing for combo points.

~ Prowla (Undermine)

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Old 12/17/11, 3:01 AM   #24
Husyor
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Harlsta View Post
This actually never crossed my mind. Every time I use Berserk, I would spam Shred (while maintaining bleeds) and once I got 5cp I would use FB. I believe just spamming Shred you would lose some dps as you're just wasting cp. But with that if Rip or SR will drop, Id make sure to put them up before I use a FB, Unless I got 5cp up and SR is going to drop, Id use FB and then just put 1 or 2 cp SR just enough to maintain it to finish of Berserk.
Well like I said, with 4pcT12, that is definitely the case, I can't remember if they also buffed FB in the same patch to make it better to FB during berserk, but I know prior to 4.2, during berserk you would just shred spam.

Had to do some digging and found this:
Ferocious Bite damage has been increased by 15%. In addition, its base cost has been reduced to 25 energy and it can use up to 25 energy, for up to a 100% damage increase.

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Old 12/24/11, 4:50 PM   #25
reaper1020
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Burning Blade
Curious question, what kinda formula would i use to calculate the EP/average agility gained from Kiril, Fury of the beasts

not asking you to do the math for me, im wonder how would i set up the formula so i can do it for this item and items alike

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Old 12/24/11, 11:01 PM   #26
david0925
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by reaper1020 View Post
Curious question, what kinda formula would i use to calculate the EP/average agility gained from Kiril, Fury of the beasts

not asking you to do the math for me, im wonder how would i set up the formula so i can do it for this item and items alike
1 ppm, stacking buff starts at 19 seconds left and ends at 0 seconds left

so 1 seconds of 1-9 stacks each, 10 seconds of 10 stacks

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Old 12/25/11, 3:21 PM   #27
asdf01
Glass Joe
 
Roptwon
Tauren Druid
 
Azralon
So, I've looked at several tutorials on rotation feral cat / feral bear .. However they do not teach all the orders which you must use the skills, but simply uses them as I wish someone would show the order to use a rotation with high dps for raid / pvp

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Old 12/26/11, 10:19 AM   #28
ceelion22
Von Kaiser
 
ceelion22's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Uldaman
Originally Posted by asdf01 View Post
So, I've looked at several tutorials on rotation feral cat / feral bear .. However they do not teach all the orders which you must use the skills, but simply uses them as I wish someone would show the order to use a rotation with high dps for raid / pvp
As far as Raids and PvE is concerned there isn't a set "rotation" (beyond the preferred optimized opener). Its more of a priority system now. With procs and CD use the priority shifts and skews so much that saying do step 1-4, rinse repeat just doesn't work.

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Old 12/26/11, 10:33 AM   #29
asdf01
Glass Joe
 
Roptwon
Tauren Druid
 
Azralon
I had seen a druid giving 40k dps, so I get confused to learn that can not reach 20, then wonder what to do and what skills to use

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Old 12/26/11, 1:27 PM   #30
Gaviin
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Thunderhorn
To state the obvious, there's a section in the first post of this thread labeled "Rotation." You should check that out and practice it, as it will get you most of the way to optimal DPS.

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