5.0.4 Resto Druid FAQ - Page 2

♦ Earen · 08/31/12, 11:24 PM

I do not plan on going into more detail on the talents here as this is intended as just a quick FAQ/reference to tide us over.

The Mists Compendium will have more detailed information on talents.

Kjeldorian · 09/03/12, 2:22 AM

Haste is not extending the number of direct heals from Tranquility, but it extending the number of ticks from the HoT portion of Tranquility.

Here is some napkin math on Beta @90 between Tier 4 Talents. (Please note these are ideal situations, not taking into account cost, overheal, etc. Just an ideal HPS scenario)

Tier 4 Calculations
Sample Calculation 5.0.4 (16010 Release)
15k Spellpower, 6650 Haste
FoN evaluation: In a 3 minute window, three casts, assuming 7 healing touch casts, healing for 5.7k results in a total of 359k healing. Versus casting 3 rejuvenations in lieu of the FoN results in 220k healing done (assuming no overheal, harmony is up). Net Healing 139k Healing in the worst case scenario more likely 249k Healing due to the typical rejuvenation overheal. With a mana saving of 29k mana.

Soul of the Forest: In a 3 minute window, without the talent and casting WG off CD (glyphed and with 9th breakpoint) the potential is a total of 18 casts resulting in 2.916 mln. Syncing the WG with swiftmend to maximize the talent and assuming no PvP 4 piece bonus (-2 second to Swiftmend CD) resulting in WG tick 13 we get 12 empowered casts resulting in a potential of 4.00 mln. (12 WG synced with Swiftmend (864k gain) also 6 empowered Rejuvs (221k gain)) Net Healing is a 1 mln GAIN.

Incarnation: Three wild growths with 15% increase and 2 additional targets subtracted by the 1 gcd for casting incarnation results in a gain of 259.2k with the additional 27 seconds assuming a maximized 27 rejuvenations which is ideal only for throughput results in a gain of 298k (the 15% from tree). Total of 557k gain.

How SoTF is working atm:
It is multiplicative resulting in a flat increase and a multiplier to your existing haste value (includes trinket procs)
Your Haste = 50% + Your current haste *1.5 [w/o 5% spell haste]
With the 5% spell haste the math gets a little tricky.
Your Haste = 50%*1.05 + Your current haste * 1.5 *1.05 + 5%

Kjeldorian · 09/03/12, 2:35 AM

Misc Addendum to the FAQ if you think it's necessary:

Note the loss of Replenishment (1% total mana over 10 seconds) and Revitalize has hampered our pre-5.0.4 mana regeneration.

Mastery went from ~179 points per 1% to ~143 points per 1%

Rejuvenation - Immediately heals for 1 tick equivalent

Wild Mushroom: Bloom CD went up from 6 seconds to 10 seconds from Beta (16010) -> Live.

Dash / Ironbark / NS are off the GCD.

♦ Earen · 09/03/12, 1:11 PM

I have a question with regards to your Incarnation math - it looks to me as you are largely only calculating WG and a rejuv from the bonus, for maximum throughput gain, is this correct? If so, do you think it might be beneficial to also add in what you might gain from the additional LB healing, OoC proc and subsequent Regrowth (glyphed) healing (or at least an estimate/average) as well as the mana savings from the ability into your calculations?

While maybe not as a large a throughput increase, I think it is likely pertinent to include both the healing done and the mana savingins in an analysis of the benefit, otherwise you are missing a fair bit of what ToL offers by narrowing it down and limiting it to just WG and Rejuv and strictly maximum throughput benefits.

I don't disagree that SotF is going to be very powerful at 90, but I also think you might be selling ToL a little bit short.

♦ Earen · 09/03/12, 1:34 PM

I did have a quick question for you (or anyone else) on something I noticed in testing the other day - have you observed the "efflorescence" portion of swiftmend critting? In some testing I did the other day I noticed that I was having that portion of swiftmed coming up with a "critical" heal, but it was almost always the first tick when it occurred. If this is not a bug, then it appears that the "efflorescence" portion is now capable of critting.

Kjeldorian · 09/03/12, 3:23 PM

@ToL vs SoTF - The math was to evaluate only throughput by evaluating the highest HPET.

Assumptions:
Sample Numbers for Evaluation (Build 16030 Beta)
@90, SP = 18456, Haste = 21.47% (9th WG Tick), Crit = 12%, Harmony Up, RG Glyphed, WG Glyphed
GCD = 1.24 sec for non RJ spells, 1 sec for RJ
Baseline Druid w/o T4 talent would cast WG + SM off CD/ RJ as filler

RJ - 14.5k x 5 Ticks + 1 Direct Heal Tick = 87k
RG - 74k Crit + 22.2k Living Seed = 96.2k
LB (Single Stack, Blooms) - 24k Bloom + 2.1k x 18 Ticks = 61.8k
WG (6 Targets) - 3.4k x 9 Ticks = 30.6k per Target
SM (3 Max Targets) 47.6k + 5.7k x 9 Ticks (Max 3 Targets)

Tree of Life
ToL (WG + SM / Rejuv Rotation)

Gain from WG - 294k (3 Casts, +2 Targets, 15%) or 98k per
Gain from Rejuv - 286k (22 Casts of Rejuv, 15%) or 13k per
Gain from SM - 63k (2 Casts, 54.7k + 6.6k x 9 Ticks x 3 Targets) or 31.5k per

Total Gain over Non Talented T4 Druid = 643k
(w/o SM was 620k)

ToL (WG +SM / LB / RG OoC Rotation)

Tricky Part: 23 GCDs (24 - 1 Used for ToL) split between LB, RG, SM, and WG . Assuming - 4% Mutually Exclusive OoC procs from Lifebloom (Which may not be the case because WoWhead.com reports two variations of Lifebloom Normal Lifebloom and ToL Lifebloom which may have different OoC procs as seen from different expansions)
Lifebloom Net - (61.8k x 115% - 87k) = -16k (Every LB you cast in lieu of a Non-ToL RJ, the extra partial seconds are taken into account at the end of the next portion)
RG Net - (96.2k x 115% - 87k) = 24k.

We could do probability densities with the number of lifeblooms proc'ing OoC but I am lazy and will look only at the extreme case.

ToL (WG + SM/ RG Spam)

Gain from WG - 294k (3 Casts, +2 Targets, 15%) or 98k per
Gain from RG - 432k (18 Casts of RG) or 24k per
Gain from SM - 63k (2 Casts, 54.7k + 6.6k x 9 Ticks x 3 Targets) or 31.5k per
Loss from RJ -348k (4 RJs lost because 18 RG = 22 seconds)

Total Gain over Non Talented T4 Druid = 441k

Due to the limitation of the 1.24 sec GCD, you lose out on a lot of potential healing versus using the 1 sec GCD RJ. Every LB used in lieu of a RG sends you farther down in the max healing and spamming RG in ToL is mana heavy without OoC.

Soul of the Forest
What if? We took the above numbers vs the previous SoTF?
SoTF (Every other SM)

Gain from WG - 653k (8 Casts, 3.4k x (13 Ticks(Empowered) - 9 Ticks(Original) x 6 Targets))
Gain from RJ - 116k (4 Casts, 14.5k x (7 Ticks(Empowered)* - 5 Ticks(Original))

Total Gain over Non Talented T4 Druid = 769k

SoTF (Sync SM + WG)

Gain from WG - 979k (12 Casts, 3.4k x (13 Ticks(Empowered) - 9 Ticks(Original) x 6 Targets))
Loss from WG unused - 580k(6 Casts, 3.4k x 9 x 6) + (6 Rejuvs, 87k per)

Total Gain over Non Talented T4 Druid = 399k

Force of Nature
What if? For completeness sake, FoN evaluation.
Gain from FoN - 136k (3 Casts, 6.3k per Treant x 3 Treants x (7 casts (though 6 in testing)) - 87k (1 Rejuvenation))
Total Gain over Non Talented T4 Druid = 136k

Flaws
Remember this is a back of the envelope calculation. There are flaws such as:

Not including crit
Living seed for spells other than Regrowth were ignored
Mana was not taken into account so thus HPS (Sustained) was not taken into account
Neither were GCDs in maintenance in keeping Harmony or Lifebloom up

What you can draw though is that SoTF (used for WG every other SM) is superior to ToL for throughput in the long run.

@Efflorescence Crits - On live (5.0.4) and a recent LFR Testing on Beta (Build 16010) the crit rate for Efflo was on par with general spell crit with no noticeable trend with respect to when crits occur.

5.0.4 H Madness 25 ~15% Crit rate for Efflo and other spells
16010 Beta LFR Testing ~11% Crit rate for efflo and other spells.

The interesting thing though was that Efflo was updating every tick, so that a spell proc trinket resulted in stronger Efflo ticks post swiftmend placement.

Taringe · 09/05/12, 9:23 AM

Regarding the Incarnation vs. SotF debate: I believe, in the end, it will very much come down to personal preference (which is a good thing). Hopefully FoN can be brought up to a level where it is also competitive.

For me, I suspect I will be going to Incarnation is nearly all situations. I am not keen on the thought of being forced into alligning every single WG and SM in order to get the most out of SotF. How much of the bonus is lost when they get out of sync? Healing is very much a dynamic and living environment.

Additionally, I think the mana considerations (As noted by Kjeldorian's flaws list) will play a significant role specifically in the early stages of raiding. These early times are also where decisions like these talents matter most.

Kjeldorian · 09/05/12, 4:07 PM

Soul of the Forest
Same assumptions as above including:

Regrowth Unglyphed ticks for 2.8k
Tranquility ticks are 5.5k

Worst case scenarios:
SoTF Empowering Other Spells:

RJ Tick 7 or 14.5 x 7 Ticks + 1 Direct Heal Tick = 116k or 29k gain
Lifebloom Tick 27 (No Bloom) or 2.1k x 27 Ticks over Tick 18 (No Bloom) is a 19k gain
Tranquility -6.59 channel time -> 4.39 channel time or 1.2 sec, no HoT benefit.
Regrowth Unglyphed Tick 5 or 2.7k x 5 Ticks over Tick 4 is a 2.8k gain
Healing Touch - 2.06 cast time -> 1.3 cast time or speed up by .7 second cast time
Regrowth - 1.23 cast time -> .86 sec cast time (1 sec gcd hard cap) or speed up of .23 second cast time
Nature's Swiftness - same as regrowth
Wild Mushroom: Bloom - Nothing

Absolute worst is using WM:B after swiftmend as it consumes the buff with no changes.
Practical worst case scenario is using a HoT like LB or RJ after SM.

SoTF (RJ only)

Gain from RJ - 348k (12 Casts, 29k per)

Total Gain over Non Talented T4 Druid = 348k

Now considering something proposed in the mmo resto guide, unglyphed WG
SoTF (SM + WG Sync)
For every other WG to sync to SM we will have a 1 second idle time which can't be spent on a Healing Spell else SoTF is consumed, which would have been a RJ in the baseline model. Also with a 16 second rotation we can only fit 11.25 SM in the 3 minute window.

Gain from WG Empowered- 2486.25k (11.25 Casts, 3.4x 13(Empowered) x 5 Targets))
Gain from WG Unglyphed - 1721.25k (11.25 Casts, 3.4x 9Ticks x 5 Targets)
Loss from WG Glyphed - 3304.8k(18 Casts, 3.4 x 9 Ticks x 6 Targets)
Loss from Sync - 1130.25k (.75 Swiftmend, 201.5k * .75 + 11.25 RJ * 87k)
Loss from RJ - 485.46k(5.58 RJ @87k per)

Total Gain over Non Talented T4 Druid = -713k
My previous analysis did not take into account the additional WGs because they assumed they were the same, but they were not. So lines 1 + 2 is the the addition of all WG unglyphed (22.5 casts), line 3 is what the Non-Talented Druid would have gotten via Glyphed WG, Line 4 is the 11.25 seconds lost waiting for the sync every period, and Line 5 is the RJ lost from the extra 4.5 GCDs.

apostolis · 09/05/12, 8:53 PM

stupid thought but assuming you do a healing touch (if glyph) it make the cd for swiftmend lower ..so you can sync it better.

yes when casting swiftmend effect to other players was critting but i found strange that it seemed to affected more than 3 people (4 people sometimes besides the person that swiftmend hit) at least thats what my screen and (what happend to me) showed.

also notice the force of nature does't finish the cast of last spell at least its bar reaches middle and then vanish and i count 5 spells casts with 6 being vanished in the middle i replied the test few times (i click the cd and throw a hot immediatelly)

Also with current tier dont forget you have the timeslip of spells making rejuv with more duration..so you cant exactly produce accurate results or assumptions i think.

p.s. udpate some times they do 6 casts sometimes 5 casts

Kjeldorian · 09/06/12, 12:18 AM

@ FoN - It scales on your haste, theoretically with 15.67% personal haste and 5% spell haste (under 2.14 second cast time HT) you should be able to get 7, but the targeting mechanic is pausing. GC has mentioned it and about improving it's mechanic.

@ Glyphing HT - You generally don't cast HT except for NS since RG has a higher HPET during OoC casts

@ Swiftmned - Checked WoL - no instances of efflo healing more than three people at any tick, though ticks do get very close during blood lust, both on a recent live h madness kill and a beta LFR.

The tier 4 talents above were done at 90 on the PTR w/o t13 due to lack of availability of auto scaling and test time.

apostolis · 09/06/12, 5:58 AM

might have been a bug when i was testing if it heals more than 3 ..but once it healed me and then jump to another person and once it healed 4 different targets ...anyway... (how can you see at wol where the ticks go ?? to check if it reached 3 or 4 people ? dont think that is possible at least in raid enviroment unless you do your own test in an instance etc..)

where did you see FON scales with haste? curious.

Well i used to prefer casting healing touch to regrowth prepatch when on clearcasting or in certain bosses (since it was also lowering nature swiftness prepatch) One healing touch in certain cases to make the swiftmend cd decrease by 1 sec to make it sync better is not bad esp when damage is high. Also why do you think rg is better esp in clearcasting? healing touch can heal up to 120 (Or more) when crit (ok in this lvl and content nerf its mostly overhealing but in lvl 90?)

Waiting on your thoughts

apostolis · 09/06/12, 10:11 AM

some numbers at our current lvl :

with 2005 haste and soul forest you get 12 ticks of wild growth (8 ticks without soul forest) with 2057 haste +soul forest and heroic trinket proc at same time you get 15 ticks

with soul forest 2057 haste without heroic trinket (of haste) proc you get 12 ticks so numbers unless i misread them are wrong.

---with 2057 haste wg ticks are 8 as with 2005 haste so 2057 is no new haste limit on its own ---

18 ticks of lifebloom (with bloom glyph on) with soul forest and 2057 haste

21 ticks of lifebloom with soul forest 2057 haste (with bloom glyph on) and heroic trinket proc (haste) ///

with soul forest + 2057 haste + heroic trinket proc (without bloom glyph on) i got 32 ticks lb

// with soul forest 2057 haste i got 21 ticks of lb (no bloom glyph no heroic trinket proc)

thats it for now ...
(testing the haste as suggested by other sources at 2057 haste no raid buffs)

♦ Earen · 09/06/12, 10:46 AM

I have completed the compendium; however, before posting it I wanted to make sure that we had a general consensus on a few things (listed below). I have largely kept Hamlet's formatting, but did change a few areas - with the main one being the talents section. I have opted to use a table (with a legend) quite similar to the one seen in the resto shaman compendium, where each talent is listed as either recommended, situational or skipped.

If you have any feedback on the below, let me know and I can make changes prior to putting the compendium up for general consumption.

Talents

Level 60 Talents: I have recommended both SotF and Incarnation, but listed FoN as Situaltional. I have not been on the beta in a couple of weeks, but FoN was still underperforming the other two abilities at that time - which is also consistent with Kjeldorian's napkin math. If anyone has observed differently, please let me know.
Level 90 Talents: I have recommended both Heart of the Wild and Nature's Vigil, but listed Dream of Cenarius as Situational (debating moving it to "skip" in it's current iteration - if anyone has thoughts on that).

Haste Breakpoints

I have listed 3039 as our first major breakpoint - this gives us an extra Rejuv tick.
I have listed 6652 as our eventual goal once gear is able to support reaching it - this gives us two additional ticks of Wild Growth.

Abilities

While I have not done a seperate note on SotF, I did mention its benefits on several places (i.e. in the ability discussing Wild Growth). However, I have retained the discussion of ToL. As such, I think it may also be of benefit to give SotF a similar, seperate note.
Kjeldorian, I was thinking of adding a "preferred" SotF rotation based on your math above. Would you be OK if I used your conclusions for this function? I would be happy to PM you what I draft so you can review it to make sure I didn't make an error. Alternatively, if you'd like to do a brief write up of the conclusions with a recommended SotF "rotation" (with and without 4T14) for maximum output I'd be happy to add it in. Just let me know which you'd prefer.

Symbiosis

I have stated that the best target for the raid would be to give Symbiosis to a tank.
I have stated that if all tanks already have Symbiosis the druid's best target would be the player that offers them an additional survivability ability, unless your raid or an encounter dictates otherwise.

Trinkets

I have not put in any information regarding trinkets in as yet (other than "coming soon"), as I thought it would be more beneficial to add that in after we have more experience with both the content and the gear. However, if anyone has early math or thoughts on any of the available trinkets, please let me know and I'd be happy to add it in.

Tree Calcs

I have taken out the Tree Calcs explanation for now. Once I have confirmation that someone is upkeeping the spreadsheet, I will add it back in. I believe I saw some chatter in some of the other threads that someone is trying to continue the sheet, but I am uncertain how/if it is currently working or the current state of the spreadsheet. If anyone has additional information to share on this, please let me know.

If you have questions - or disagree - with any of the above, please respectfully let me know. If you want to know if something is part of the compendium, please ask. In the post above I have just listed the things I want to be sure there is a general consensus on before posting.

Kjeldorian · 09/06/12, 11:18 AM

@ WoL - In the expression editor in the tab with Dashboard, Healing Done, Dashboard etc, you can run "spellid = 81269" that will show every time the Efflo of swiftmend heals. Ideally you'll no more than three people getting healed at every interval.

Example:

← Click Here

Note multiple groups of three people, sometimes one or two people at a time based on Efflo placement.

@FoN - Yes pets scale with our Haste and Crit, a good measure of the treants HT cast time is your HT cast time. (though there is a slight delay between casts as they get new targets, GC mentioned the delay).

@HT vs RG (Glyphed) during OoC, Using sample numbers from above.
RG crit varies from 72k - 74k with a cast time of 1.24 sec, HT varies from 67-70k (134 - 140k crits) with a cast time of 2.06 sec.
w/o Living Seed

Healing Per Execution Time [HPET] for RG is ~58.9k
HPET for HT is ~33.3, HT Crit is ~66.5k, @12% Crit the average is ~37.3k

I did not include Living Seed because it is still as lackluster as it was in Cata, unless you're Tank Healing and not moving the talent produces a small overall healing done. Their may be cases where you want the reduced swiftmend glyph because you really need efflo about every ~10 (with 4 pc bonus) - 11 (w/o 4 pc bonus) seconds and you will need to consider how your raid handles an encounter.

@SoTF (85 Testing)
Not including the 5% raid haste hurts, with the 5% raid haste and at 15.67% Haste (aka 2005 Haste) you can reach WG Tick 13 with SoTF, LB Tick 27, RJ Tick 7.

w/ [Shard of Woe] and the previously recommended 2032 Haste (30.97% w/ SoW) you get WG Tick 14, LB Tick 31, and RJ Tick 8. Interesting to note you can get WG Tick 8 (31.52% w/ SoW) at 2101 Haste, though I doubt it's worth it at this stage of the xpac given how just like the end of Wrath, shields are doing most of the healing.

w/ [Seal of the Seven Signs] (Hard to control, impractical to wait for when it's up, more of a thought exercise) @2005 Haste you get (41.25% w/ Buff up) WG Tick 9. LB Tick 18, RJ Tick 5

@LB (Blooming) for Haste Breakpoint calculation testing shows it follows the existing rule with the original base ticks being 10 instead of 15. I don't know why 2057 was recommended as it's kind of in the middle of nowhere with lifebloom breakpoints in either glyphed or unglyphed form.

Nihlo · 09/06/12, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Earen

Tree Calcs

I have taken out the Tree Calcs explanation for now. Once I have confirmation that someone is upkeeping the spreadsheet, I will add it back in. I believe I saw some chatter in some of the other threads that someone is trying to continue the sheet, but I am uncertain how/if it is currently working or the current state of the spreadsheet. If anyone has additional information to share on this, please let me know.

Here is an the latest treecalcs, it's not yet perfect but working and with lvl90 a lot of things will be quite different anyway. Another simple online Calculator would be the HealCalc.

People might also be interested in some proffession-tipps and a basic Dungeon-Item-List to get raid-ready. Something like this.