Profession information is listed in the compendium, as well as gems, enchants and stat priorities (you can look at the 4.3 version of the compendium for a basic idea of what will be included). The list above is just a few basic points that may be debatable that I wanted to see if there were any additional thoughts on. The list above is not inclusive of even a fraction of the content in the compendium.
I am hesitant to add a "starter gear" list to the compendium, as it will quickly become outdated and the relevancy will be limited as people gain raid gear. If people think it would be helpful, I can perhaps make a second posting with regards to gear in general - as has been done in the past. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Last edited by Earen : 09/08/12 at 11:59 AM.
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
The SoTF (Every other SM) model is boosting 8 WGs and 6 RJs. Are we supposed to be getting 14 Swiftmends off in this model, and 12 in every other?
I appreciate that mana management is unconsidered by design, but penalizing the unglyphed WG model for the healing of uncast RJs implies that every empty GCD over a 3m period should be filled with a RJ.
@SoTF Miscalc - You are correct regarding the number of swiftmends in the SoTF (WG Glyphed Rotation) which brings the number down 58k from 827k to 769k, the post has been edited.
@WG Unglyphed - That was the base assumption that the untalented Druid would be casting WG / SM off CD and Rejuv as the filler. The arguments for glyphing vs unglyphing has already been addressed when the WG Glyph was proposed back during the 4.3 implementation (early last December) Convenient Link and the conditions have not changed much, WG costs 22% of base mana, RJ costs 16% of base mana, and the difference in GCDs remains the same.
Redid the math, unglyphing ends up hurting at the end
Last edited by Kjeldorian : 09/08/12 at 2:52 AM.
Reason: Mention of WG Unglyphed Math
Three min window, maximum of 13 swiftmends (I do clip .8 of a swiftmend, but we'll consider the lower of the scenario)
SoTF (4 PC / WG Glyph Force Sync)
Casting waiting / delay between every WG and SM with RJ filler (3 seconds of WG downtime or 42 seconds of WG downtime).
Gain from WG - 1126k (13.8 WG Casts, 3.4k x 4Gained Ticks x 6 Targets or 81.6k gain per)
Loss from Syncing - 319k (4.2 WG Casts Lost @ 183.6k + 5.2 RJ Gained @ 87k)
Gain from SW - 171k (1.8 SM Cast, 47.6k + 5.7k x 9 Ticks (Max 3 Targets) - 2.2 RJ Loss @87k)
Total Gain over Non Talented T4 Druid = 978k
27% Gain over the Non-4pc / WG Glyphed Every Other (769k)
SoTF (4 PC / WG Natural Sync)
Casting WG with Swiftmend every 3rd SW when they realign at 39 seconds with a 1 second difference after SM Global.
Gain from WG - 367.2k (4.5 WG Casts 3.4k x 4Gained Ticks x 6 Targets or 81.6k gain per)
Loss from WG - 34k (.45 WG Casts Lost@ 183.6k +.56 RJ Gained @87k)
Gain from RJ - 270k (9.3 Empowered RJ Casts @ 29k gain per)
Gain from SW - 171k (1.8 SM Cast, 47.6k + 5.7k x 9 Ticks (Max 3 Targets) - 2.2 RJ Loss @87k)
Total Gain over Non Talented T4 Druid = 774
.7% Gain over the Non-4pc / WG Glyphed Every Other (769k)
Four piece T14 allows for forced syncing to create better bursts or a 1-2 SM / WG combo.
SoTF (4 PC / WG No Glyph Force Sync)
Syncing the 8 sec WG to the 13 sec SM is a 3.76 sec loss for WG[5 sec - 1 GCD] (losing 47% of the possible Wild Growths while it's idle on the CD)[list][*]Gain from WG Empowered- 3050k (13.8 Casts, 3.4x 13(Empowered) x 5 Targets))[*]Gain from WG Unglyphed - 0k (0 Casts, 3.4x 9Ticks x 5 Targets)[*]Loss from WG Glyphed - 3305k(18 Casts, 3.4 x 9 Ticks x 6 Targets)[*]Gain from RJ - 452k(5.2 RJ Cast, due to (8.7 WG Casts Lost - 4.5 WG from Unglyphed)@87k per)[The 4.5 WG GCDs were originally RJ and would have been subtracted but since they were not used due to loss from sync there is no change]
Total Gain over Non Talented T4 Druid = 197k
74% Loss over the Non-4pc / WG Glyphed Every Other (769k)
SoTF (4 PC / WG No Glyph Force Sync)
Syncing the 8 sec WG to every 2nd SW reduces the gap to 2 sec. [waiting .76 seconds for WG #3 @ 25.24 sec to sync with SW#2 @ 26 seconds + 1.24 sec GCD to cast SM] (losing 25% of the possible Wild Growths)
Gain from WG Empowered- 1525k (6.9 Casts, 3.4x 13(Empowered) x 5 Targets))
Gain from WG Unglyphed - 2111k (13.8 Casts, 3.4x 9Ticks x 5 Targets)
Loss from WG Glyphed - 3305k(18 Casts, 3.4 x 9 Ticks x 6 Targets)
Loss from RJ - 291k(3.35 RJ @87k, We cast 2.7 WG more than the 18 WG Base)
Total Gain over Non Talented T4 Druid = 40k
95% Loss over the Non-4pc / WG Glyphed Every Other (769k)
If you have the 4 piece you will gain by glyphing WG and by using WG with every SM. If you want to heal without WG glyphed, you should have some very compelling evidence.
I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone talking about the benefits of ToL while glyphed for blooming. In heroic raid testing, after blanketing a raid, single stacks of LB were blooming for 40k. Combine that with instant, glyphed RG's from OoC procs and it makes for a substantial throughput CD. The only downfall I can see is the number of GCD's sacrificed.
Well i dont see much of hps increase while going tree and apply lb in raid. What is interesting to compare is how much healing, the bloom gluph does vs non glyph lbs
I will use numbers i am seeing at my screen now :
1 application of non glyph lifebloom does 21 ticks of 1214 healing per tick (i ignore few critical ticks of 2501 healing) plus 16k healing (non crit) a total of 41 to 42 k healing
1 application of glyph lifebloom does 12 ticks of 1214 healing per tick (i ignore few critical ticks of 2501 healing) plus an average of 24k healing (non crit) a total of 38 to 39 k healing
My stats are 2057 haste, 24,47% mastery 17,27% crit spirit 2072 (2338 per 5 secs mana regen) with no buffs at all. Also the above numbers are without any trinket procs.
As some people have said healing is dynamic so it all goes down to how each one heals and use his cds since there are lot of considerations to make the choice of glyph bloom a good or bad one. For example more ticks more chance to have a crit lb tick on the other hand 3 applications of lb with bloom glyph will return 70k healing when they bloom making a quite nice healing for tanks that have their hp going up and down (e.g. impales or morchok's damage or even yor's add if you can time it between purple debuff being reapplied)
I was certain you were wrong, but it turns out that you're right. I went ahead and used your numbers.
W/O glyph: 1.4 ticks per sec @1699.6 hps with a 16k bloom.
W/ glyph: 1.2 ticks per sec @1456.8 hps with a 24k bloom.
Assuming you're preemptively hot'ing 7 seconds before damage goes out, we'll spend 7 GCD and measure accordingly from there. Each LB application will be measured by itself first and measurement will start as soon as the damage goes out(exactly 7 seconds after the first application). There are no overheals and there are no crits. Haste will be set at 2057 without a trinket proc.
1st application: has 3 seconds remaining=4370.4+24k=28370.4
2nd application: 4 seconds remaining=5827.2+24k=29827.2
3rd application: 5 seconds remaining=7284+24k=31284
4th application: 6 seconds remaining=8740.8+24k=32740.8
5th application: 7 seconds remaining=10197.6+24k=34197.6
6th application: 8 seconds remaining=11654.4+24k=35654.4
7th application: 9 seconds remaining=13111.2+24k=37111.2
LB ONLY with glyph of blooming totals over 10 seconds=229185.6=22918.56 hps from LB alone.
I'll use the OoC calculation for both with and without glyphs. It's fair to assume that with 7 applications of LB, OoC will proc 5 times in a 10 second period. This calculation is easy since we're glyphed for RG and there's no HoT effect. We will also assume each RG is a crit.
OoCx5 x 60k=300000=30000 hps from RG alone.
That leaves us with 52,918.56 hps over a 17 second period with a 10 second active time.
There's still 5 GCD's to use in this calculation but I would rather just do a straight comparison of with or without glyph of blooming.
Since we'll be gaining 5 extra seconds without the glyph, I'll add 5 extra targets starting 12 seconds before damage goes out. The last 5 applications will not bloom since damage is stopping after 10 seconds.
If i remember correctly since i need to check again the glyph regrowth is also producing less healing than the non glyph regrowth but it will be interesting to see numbers when someone has the glyph regrowth + power torrent + tree form (and innervate at same time to reduce the instant cost of regrowths ->for the sake of testing only this combo) .
Then run numbers without the glyph regrowth + tree form+power torrent +heroic trinket proc (with and without) since the haste is affecting our regrowth ticks (and innervate at same time to reduce the instant cost of regrowths ->for the sake of testing only this combo)
I think it will be very good if we can examine what is the best glyphs (bloom,wild growth,regrowth) to have while selecting incarnation. We can then have the incarnation talent vs sotf talent debate under a new scope.
p.s. Apologies if the comparison have been made with all the above assumptions already .
As already mentioned the main problem with LB (Blooming) is the GCDs lost. To put this in a better frame of mind:
In a three minute fight, you end up using eighteen GCDs to maintain your LB stack since you'll have to hard cast LB to refresh the stack where you can spend zero GCDs to maintain your LB stack without it glyphed. And keeping lifebloom rolling is essential for your mana because Omen of Clarity is the only self major mana mechanic outside of Innervate.
The second reason against Blooming is generally the unpredictability of the bloom component, in Cata there are few fights where there is the need for a predictable bloom that isn't already covered via H Pally / D Priest shields. In practice, the bloom portion will tend to end up healing poorly with a 80%+ overheal unless the fight has a Loatheb mechanic (Yors'ahj Purple). In MoP, having seen all of the fights in one iteration or another, there are few fights where you can use the 10 second bloom effectively that once again isn't addressed by the prior.
Regarding JDRis87's analysis, 5 OoC procs in 10 seconds is very generous as with a 4% chance every tick you would only have a 24.9% chance of that occurring (12 ticks @ 21.43% Haste, 96% per none event, 7 events)
@ Regrowth, I'll use the level 90 numbers posted before.
RG Crit - 74k
RG Normal - 37k
RG Ticks - 2.8k
12% Crit, 21.47% Haste (RG Tick 4)
Weighted Avg: 37k (28% No Crit) +74k (72% Crit) + 2.8k x 4 (88% No Crit) + 5.6k x 4 (12% Crit) = 76.2k
Without including living seed, RG Unglyphed has a slight advantage over RG Glyphed, however Living Seed results in the table flipping for it glyphed.
76.2k + 22.2k (.72%) = 92.2k
74k + 22.2k = 96.2k
The only other factor is the refresh of the HoT if the target is below 50% which requires consistently low players or a healer mechanic.
It ends up being situational between the two, where one favors Tank Healing (Glyphed) vs Heavy Raid Healing (Unglyphed) but the situation would have to be rather extreme for the difference to shine (less than 5% difference between the two)
WG (Unglyphed) / LB (Bloom) are both losses due to the loss GCDs unless a boss mechanic has a specific mechanic such as no healing allowed after a certain extend or a boss pulses every 8 seconds. (Hoping then by using these glyphs we minimize our overheal on said spells) If the spell isn't great in your normal caster form which will be 83% of the time if you pop ToL every time it's up, ToL will not make it any better.
Last edited by Kjeldorian : 09/15/12 at 6:04 PM.
Reason: Coding Failure, Math %
hello, I am a bit curious whether I should utilize mushroom heal whenever posibble because to put 3 shroom all the time will means I lose 3 seconds at least and 1 seconds to detonate. That means I only have 6 seconds to track other people and with that time, I find it hard to manage my hot. Later in MoP when damage goes spiky, I'm fairly sure that sometimes I will miss that mass blanketing rejuv. In other hand, shroom detonate is a cheap and good AoE hea(app 15k for 3 shroom)..
So yeah, I just think that I will never have a time to cast that healing touch or nourish. Anybody thinking the same?
Mushrooms are simply not powerful enough given their setup time to use rotationally. Plant them pre-pull in an appropriate position and when damage is low enough that you can burn 3 globals setting them up, then detonate them when damage gets heavier (Bloom is off the GCD) to supplement your normal raid healing paradigm.
In my frame of mind I simply treat WM:B as Nourish, the healing base value and spell power of 3x mushrooms is almost equal if not slightly better than a Nourish (Note same mana cost to Detonate as Nourish)
Number of Targets
Using similar stats from previous posts,
Nourish heals for 22.5k with a 2.05 cast time ~11k HPS
WM:B heals for 7.5k per mushroom / per target with a 1.24 sec GCD for each shroom for a 3.72 casting time. 6k HPS
Number of Targets you would need to hit with all three shrooms to equate HPS (yay algebra):
Nourish: 2 Targets
Healing Touch: 6 Targets
RG (Glyphed w/o LS): 13 Targets
RJ: 15 Targets
WG (Glyphed): 31 Targets
This is certainly one of those spells that favors 25s more than 10s and stacking over loose. The only other useful mechanic to this ability is the refreshing of Harmony if you hit one target, great as an emergency refresh the harmony stack while you're busy in an AoE healing phase.
Notice that the last 4 tend to be the spells focused upon because they get more done in a short amount of time, rather that WM:B is pretty slow and if your healing team is aggressive most of the potential healing here is wasted.
Mana Per Execution Time and Percent Per Execution Time
Regrowth 14.4k (4.81%)
Wild Growth 11.1k (3.71%)
Rejuvenation 9.6k (3.2%)
Healing Touch 8.4k (2.81%)
Swiftmend 4k (1.38%)
Nourish / WM:B 3k (.99%)
Lifebloom 2.9k (.96%)
Tranquility 2k (.66%)
The higher you are on this list the more mana you burn, which is pretty obvious from having to spam regrowth versus blanketing with lifeblooms.
Last edited by Kjeldorian : 09/15/12 at 6:03 PM.
Reason: Added HPM HPET MPET analysis