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Old 11/23/12, 12:55 AM   #226
mashdar
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
tsulong

A lot of people have probably already thought of this, but I thought I'd mention it here:
For the Tsulong fight, during the day phase it may be worth hotting Tsulong while you have Bathed in the Light. This means avoiding refreshing lifebloom after the buff ends (no RG/HT/nourish spam), and making sure you get a RJ/SM in during the buff.
This will save a lot of mana which would have been spent on RG/HT/nourish between breaths. The expiring LB might be a nice perk too. And it's probably best not to clip your RJ.

If you re-stack LB prior to the breath, I estimate you can get a RJ, SM, and four RG in during the 6s buff. Times assume 12.5% haste:
RG (precast, ideally <1.0s)
RJ (1s)
RG (1.333s)
RG (1.333s)
RG (1.333s, may have to skip depending on precast)
SM (0s, cd is after buff ends)

This should give you a pretty sexy RJ/Efflo/LB stack ticking past the end of the buff.

I can't find the timer on Sun Breath, but I think it was >21s (ie, lifebloom will expire). Without the timer I can't hazard an estimate for the affect on throughput, but this certainly appears to be a huge mana gain with a possible throughput upside.

Edit: Napkin math w/ my questionable gear w/o buffs:
LB ticks for 5240, RG heals for ~69.5k. Assuming LB ticks 1/1.5 times more frequently than I can cast RG, a 500% bonus to LB (I'm assuming the base heal in both cases) heals for 39300 per RG cast time.
LB appears to expire for ~69k (x6), and I have roughly a 17% crit (buffed). Adjusting for this on 12.5% haste yields an adjusted 82780 buffed LB per RG cast time.
I don't have living seed included in the above, nor accounted for the SM cd you could cast in liue of a RG. Nor have I accounted for the 3 GCDs to re-stack lb. If you can sustain RG spam, LS might make it a raw gain in boss healing (does LS proc off add damage in this phase?), but it may not be worth it.
And buffed HoTs free you up for raid healing when you don't have the buff. The above assumes you just sit still between breaths.


after-thought: This assumes HoTs are still calculated on cast (ie, tick size does not vary with caster stats/buffs)... I realized I have not confirmed this for MoP.

Last edited by mashdar : 11/23/12 at 10:44 AM.

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Old 11/25/12, 11:53 AM   #227
Dav1l
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Is there any way to calculate Rejuv and WG/SM haste breakpoints when you are afflicted by 5% haste raid buff and 15% increased casting speed (not haste)? Not sure how formula works with casting speed.

Torte - Human Priest

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Old 11/25/12, 12:08 PM   #228
Darkwing Duck
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Dav1l View Post
Is there any way to calculate Rejuv and WG/SM haste breakpoints when you are afflicted by 5% haste raid buff and 15% increased casting speed (not haste)? Not sure how formula works with casting speed.
I am under the impression only +haste affects breakpoints of hots and dots. Casting speed only makes you cast spells faster (not sure if it affects the gcd), but doesn't give you any additional ticks.

Edit: Googling haste, I now think "casting speed" and "haste" (or spell haste) are the same thing, but I'm definitely a bit confused.

Last edited by Darkwing Duck : 11/25/12 at 12:17 PM.

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Old 11/25/12, 9:11 PM   #229
mashdar
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Dav1l View Post
Is there any way to calculate Rejuv and WG/SM haste breakpoints when you are afflicted by 5% haste raid buff and 15% increased casting speed (not haste)? Not sure how formula works with casting speed.
Are you talking about Nature's Grace? I didn't think resto got that any more? (It's now tied to eclipse for boomkin)

In any case, it appears to be multiplicative with haste. Interestingly, the Eclipse description calls it 15% spell haste, while the buff tool-tip says "spell casting speed increased by 15%". My character sheet haste % went from 7.16 to 23.24, which appears to be 1.15*1.0716.

A quick test shows it does add RJ ticks.

Edit: This is multiplicative with the 5% raid buff. Haste in boomkin form went from 12.52% to 29.40%. This corresponds to 1.0716 * 1.05 * 1.15.

This all assumes the character sheet is accurate, which history may raise some doubts about.

Last edited by mashdar : 11/25/12 at 9:16 PM. Reason: correction

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Old 11/25/12, 10:47 PM   #230
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
Hamlet's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
That's how haste has always worked. If there are any encounter-specific buffs for Resto that change haste, I can add checkboxes for them next time I do a spreadsheet pass, and the breakpoint table in the sheet will update automatically.

Or you can tell me any specific ones here and I'll just work out the common cases quickly so people have them handy.


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Old 11/26/12, 2:47 AM   #231
Dav1l
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
I'm talking about Sha of Fear buff
Lei's Hope - Spell - World of Warcraft

Torte - Human Priest

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Old 11/27/12, 1:37 PM   #232
Kjeldorian
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Illidan
+15% Haste Buff

+/- a few points due to truncation errors.

+5% Raid Haste + 15% External Modifier
  • Spell Tick # [Increase from Base], Haste Rating
  • RJ Tick 6 [+2], 5896
  • RJ Tick 7 [+3], 14695
  • WG Tick 10 [+3]. 5267
  • WG Tick 11 [+4], 10295
  • LB Tick 20 [+5], 3256
  • LB Tick 21 [+6], 5603
  • LB Tick 22 [+7], 7949

TLDR - with 15% extra haste at the current norm of 3043 haste, no change to RJ, +1 tick to WG, and +4 ticks to LB

Side Note: SoTF gain under these conditions at 3043 would be +1 to RJ, +2 to WG for either 3043 haste or 6652 haste.

Last edited by Kjeldorian : 11/27/12 at 1:53 PM.

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Old 11/27/12, 4:54 PM   #233
itsmommy
Glass Joe
 
itsmommy's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Turalyon
Symbiosis

On which targets do you generally cast Symbiosis. Most of the discussion seemed to only cover the benefits we receive. Do any groups use it for the benefits the target gets (rogues and a taunt for trash, locks and an extra rejuv heal on elegon soaking)?

In our raids (25 man) we generally run 4 druids (1-2 resto, 1-2 boomy and 1 feral) and have 2 shadow priests (our first default for Symbiosis as they get tranq). I like to grab a shammy and get Spirit Walkers Grace so I can heal and move (great for tornados) or a DK for IceBound, but I'm being asked is that really the best usage.

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Old 11/27/12, 6:07 PM   #234
Akusei
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Frostmane
Originally Posted by itsmommy View Post
On which targets do you generally cast Symbiosis. Most of the discussion seemed to only cover the benefits we receive. Do any groups use it for the benefits the target gets (rogues and a taunt for trash, locks and an extra rejuv heal on elegon soaking)?

In our raids (25 man) we generally run 4 druids (1-2 resto, 1-2 boomy and 1 feral) and have 2 shadow priests (our first default for Symbiosis as they get tranq). I like to grab a shammy and get Spirit Walkers Grace so I can heal and move (great for tornados) or a DK for IceBound, but I'm being asked is that really the best usage.
It depends.

Which boss are you going up against? What are the problems you're experiencing with that boss?

There is no true "best for everything" target. Also, when you're running 4 druids of various specs, not only do you have to consider who is getting symbiosis from the druid but also on which druid is doing the placing.

All that being said, Tranq in the hands of a shadow priest can be a very useful healing CD.

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Old 11/27/12, 11:59 PM   #235
Venomous
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
Barthilas
This whole new Item Upgrade has made my mind explode in the way of BiS items - and what we should be doing. Any updates/feedback on what users should/shouldn't be upgrading and/or saving for?

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Old 11/28/12, 1:30 AM   #236
Kjeldorian
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Illidan
Hodge Podge

Symbiosis:

Some of the things my raid has done using symbiosis has been Hunter for Dash when they do crystals on H Stone Guard, although it was mentioned that the mushrooms are a small DPS gain for DKs (still something the min/max DPS enjoy), Ele Shaman for an additional kick in the form of Sunbeam, Windwalker monks gain Bear Hug (a stun w/ % hp damage), and Roots to a H / D Priest for fights that need the extra CC.

Although Tranquility may seem like a great option, it is really lackluster in that it is a 8 min CD and heals for very little (7k direct heal portions (~30k SP)), your spriest would get more HPS out by casting a PoM and using direct heals in lieu of the channel time.

Reference for Symbiosis Spriests
Tranquility - Spell - World of Warcraft

PvP 2 Piece:
Contrary to the tooltip, the PvP Resto 4 Piece has been delinked, you get 2 sec off of Swiftmend wearing only two pieces. Giving an option to druids who have yet to obtain 4 piece PvE to still obtain a reduced Swiftmend cooldown.

Treant fun!
If you have the Treant glyph, shift into the Treant form and stand near a campfire. You'll certainly be amazed by the animation you have while having the cozy fire buff.

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Old 11/28/12, 7:25 AM   #237
Dav1l
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by Kjeldorian View Post
+/- a few points due to truncation errors.

+5% Raid Haste + 15% External Modifier
  • Spell Tick # [Increase from Base], Haste Rating
  • RJ Tick 6 [+2], 5896
  • RJ Tick 7 [+3], 14695
  • WG Tick 10 [+3]. 5267
  • WG Tick 11 [+4], 10295
  • LB Tick 20 [+5], 3256
  • LB Tick 21 [+6], 5603
  • LB Tick 22 [+7], 7949

TLDR - with 15% extra haste at the current norm of 3043 haste, no change to RJ, +1 tick to WG, and +4 ticks to LB

Side Note: SoTF gain under these conditions at 3043 would be +1 to RJ, +2 to WG for either 3043 haste or 6652 haste.
Thanks for that. Lei Shi hope is definitely haste buff, my last post was incorrect. 5603 and 5896 breakpoints work and give insane hps boost.

Torte - Human Priest

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Old 11/29/12, 2:10 AM   #238
Numiro
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
I've just discovered something that came to a shock to me, I can reach the 6652 haste cap by sacrificing about 1k worth of spirit, that's roughly a 600 hps boost trade in extra rejuvenations vs 1400 hps boost in Wild Growth if my napkin math before my morning coffee is correct. I don't have a raid before sunday to try it out though so if anyone else can reach it and acctualy does raid before me I'd _love_ to see some logs!

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Old 11/29/12, 2:40 AM   #239
varila
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kazzak (EU)
I wonder if anyone did any math on what the trinkets will be looking like with item upgrading them? In terms of MP5 returns etc.

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Old 11/29/12, 6:47 AM   #240
Kjeldorian
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Illidan
Haste, Trinkets

@Numiro - it is not difficult to get by with 7k spirit, just restraint on Rejuvenation blanketing and good use of Omen of Clarity of usage. Though on fights expected to be over 6 min or without a mana regen mechanic, I do recommend 2 piece PvE.

@Varila
Trinket, Avg Spi Upgrade, Avg Int Upgrade, Effective Mp5 upgrade. Used data from WoWhead, which is never always perfect when it comes to data mined things, you have been forewarned.
  • [Spirits of the Sun]
    • Stage 1 LFR, 44.2 Spi, 38 Int, 24.7 mp5
    • Stage 2 LFR, 90.1 Spi, 78 Int, 50.4 mp5
    • Stage 1 N, 44.4 Spi, 43 Int, 24.9 mp5
    • Stage 2 N, 101.5 Spi, 89 Int, 56.9 mp5
    • Stage 1 H, 56.2 Spi, 49 Int, 31.5 mp5
    • Stage 2 H, 114.7 Spi, 100 Int, 64.2 mp5
  • [Qin-xi's Polarizing Seal]
    • Stage 1 LFR, 36 Spi, 48 Int, 20.2 mp5
    • Stage 2 LFR, 73 Spi, 98.2 Int, 40.9 mp5
    • Stage 1 N, 40 Spi, 54 Int, 22.4 mp5
    • Stage 2 N, 83 Spi, 111 Int, 46.5 mp5
    • Stage 1 H, 46 Spi, 61.3 Int, 25.8 mp5
    • Stage 2 H, 94 Spi, 125.3 Int, 52.6 mp5
  • [Jade Courtesan Figurine]
    • Stage 1, 34 Spi, 40 Int, 19 mp5
    • Stage 2, 69 Spi, 83 Int, 38.8 mp5
  • [Scroll of Revered Ancestors]
    • Stage 1, 34 Spi, 40 Int, 19 mp5
    • Stage 2, 69 Spi, 83 Int, 38.8 mp5
  • [Relic of Chi Ji]
    • Stage 1, 50.6 Spi, 43 Int, 28.4 mp5
    • Stage 2, 103.5 Spi, 89 Int, 58 mp5
  • [Thousand-Year Pickled Egg]
    • Stage 1, N/A Spi, 34 Int, N/A mp5 (205 Increase to Proc)
    • Stage 2, N/A Spi, 69 Int, N/A mp5 (419 Increase to Proc)
  • [Vial of Ichorous Blood], 55 Spi, 65 Int, 30.8 mp5
  • [Price of Progress], N/A Spi, 65 Int, ~50 mp5 (assuming 50 sec ICD)
  • [Empty Fruit Barrel], 65 Spi, 87 Int, 36.4 mp5
  • [Zen Alchemist Stone], ~25 Spi (after reforging), 88 Int, 13.9 mp5

TLDR
Save your VP for the higher Ilvl variants as you'll get more bang for your buck (unless you need it for progression).

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