[Resto] Mists of Pandaria 5.2 - Page 24

Doctroll · 12/22/12, 2:47 AM

Hi guys

What i notice is on beginning of raiding lack of spiryt force me to stack gems and use trynkets for extra spyrit but when i reach to 12700 spyrit a funny thing happend i was spending again loads of mana becose my spell where less efective (lack of spell power) so i get my self another set of trynkets with extra intelect and spyrit as cd or random cd.
Much better as long as i can keep spiryt close to 9400 and spell power around 29000 all seams to be good now(exept last boss in HoF).
If u guys have same problem i wonder how u manage resolve this

All the best

Payday · 12/22/12, 5:49 AM

Originally Posted by Kjeldorian

SoTF 70% change would add 2 more additional ticks to WG from the status quo, an additional 3rd tick for less than an additional 1% haste to either the 3043 or the 6652 breakpoint (estimate 3417, 6822) [Previous WG 12, 13. Post PTR change WG 14, 15]

FoN tooltip (3490+32.3%sp every 3 seconds) is equivalent to non crit 1 RG split as a smart heal among 3 targets every 3 seconds for 15 seconds (4+ possible RG equivalent (depends on spell clipping / scaling to haste))

Cenarion Ward change makes each tick hit as hard as a non crit RG versus the previous non crit Nourish. Mana cost will be a major factor.

Notes I saw on MMO-Champ say 75% not 70%.

Numiro · 12/22/12, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Doctroll

Hi guys

What i notice is on beginning of raiding lack of spiryt force me to stack gems and use trynkets for extra spyrit but when i reach to 12700 spyrit a funny thing happend i was spending again loads of mana becose my spell where less efective (lack of spell power) so i get my self another set of trynkets with extra intelect and spyrit as cd or random cd.
Much better as long as i can keep spiryt close to 9400 and spell power around 29000 all seams to be good now(exept last boss in HoF).
If u guys have same problem i wonder how u manage resolve this

All the best

I'm at 8k spirit with double mana proccs (Spirit of the Sun LFR and Price of Progress) Haven't struggled with mana since i was in ilvl 463 gear. Hamlet has explained multiple times why spirit isn't the answer to going oom and he definetly has a point so I'd suggest you read this thread.

I'm sorry if I missed something in your post, I can barely read it.

Kjeldorian · 12/22/12, 12:29 PM

(#3043 HR / #6652 HR)

PTR Notes said 70% (WG +5 Ticks 13/14)
RJ (+2 Ticks)
LB (+12 Ticks #29 /#31)

Datamined Tooltip 75% (WG +6 Ticks 14/15)
RJ (+3 Ticks #8, special note RJ 9 with 75% SoTF lines up at 6652)
LB (+13 Ticks #30 /#32)

♦ Earen · 12/22/12, 9:42 PM

I question if the Rejuv change is going to be good enough when thought about long term. As it stands right now, unless we are going to wear our 2 T14 for the rest of the expansion as soon as we are without it, it basically puts us right back where we are now with regards to the cost of the spell - unless I'm overthinking it and missing something.

Kjeldorian · 12/23/12, 3:30 AM

If we follow the trend of the last few tiers, the two piece of the next tier will most likely benefit us in some mana based way.

♦ Earen · 12/23/12, 3:28 PM

Sure, but if you presume that the change to rejuv is to help facilitate the flaws in our toolkit, does it really do anything for us, or solve anything, once we've dropped the set bonus? While it will certainly be nice to have a different mana saving set bonus, I would guess that it is going to affect a an ability other than Rejuv. Which means that I'm not sure it solves the problems that I assume the change to rejuv was intended to help fix: it's prohibitive cost in the face of it being one of the only tools to deal with raid damage. Once you drop the set bonus, the cost of rejuv will be roughly equivalent to where it is currently, which means we are back in the same boat as we are now with regards to the cost of the spell the minute we remove 2 T14. I'm simply not convinced that is going to be effective enough unless we see some other significant changes.

All of that being said, this was on twitter yesterday:

Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
@Wingria We have a crazy idea for mushrooms that we're working on. Too soon to know if it's a keeper.

While it's very encouraging to know that mushrooms are finally being looked at, I think we will have to wait and see if the combination of the change plus the decrease in spell cost (sans T14) will be enough to right us, or at least allow us to be competitive.

Satanicway · 12/24/12, 10:24 AM

Earen:

If the next set 2-pc bonus generate way less effective Mp5 then the -10% cost of reju from this tier, we will just keep using 2 pieces from the old set on next tier, and then blizzard will be forced to buff the new tier because they want people to use it.

So either the next tier 2pc bonus is as good as the one now, or they will need to buff it because they want people to upgread their gear on each tier.

If it works on another ability, be sure that the bonus will not be -10% cost, because it would not generate the same effective Mp5 then -10% cost on rejuvenation.

manbearcat · 01/02/13, 1:15 PM

Earen:

If the next set 2-pc bonus generate way less effective Mp5 then the -10% cost of reju from this tier, we will just keep using 2 pieces from the old set on next tier, and then blizzard will be forced to buff the new tier because they want people to use it.

So either the next tier 2pc bonus is as good as the one now, or they will need to buff it because they want people to upgread their gear on each tier.

If it works on another ability, be sure that the bonus will not be -10% cost, because it would not generate the same effective Mp5 then -10% cost on rejuvenation.

In most cases this isn't really true at all. If the next tier has a mana reduction bonus that isn't as effective as the previous tiers, they will usually just nerf the old instead of buffing the newer one.

Satanicway · 01/02/13, 3:19 PM

Not really true, they generally nerf an old bonus when it scales too much with the improved stats of new gear, making it give more then it was giving by the time it was the current set.

Most of the time that those bonus receive nerfs are because they are either procs that will proc more with new haste levels because they were not using PPM, or something that scaled exponentially with gear.

Since this tier is a pretty flat 10% cost reduction on one spell, i cant see they nerfing it.

It might happen, blizzard is know to do bizarre (some might say dumb) that the entire community disagree with, but most of the time they are coherent, and they wiill probably not nerf this flat number, but either make a descent set bonus for next tier, or improve it if it is too weak.

• Hamlet · 01/02/13, 4:22 PM

I put a little more work into SotF since it's going to get more relevant now with the buff. TreeCalcs post: [Resto] TreeCalcs

At 70%, it is quite strong numerically. The big thing to work out about its practical value is how valid the assumption is that you're going to want to go through fights with SM and WG held in lockstep the whole time. Another important factor is that the talent is dramatically bolstered by the T14 bonus allowing you to do so, and will not be as strong once we move on to new gear.

In the basic TreeCalcs analysis, SotF and Tree are mostly on par in terms of total healing done, but as always with healing that may or may not mean much based on the particular situation. SotF's huge buff to WG is going to really matter when WG is highly effective at basically all times through a fight. The sort of constant raid damage where we'd HoT blanket nonstop in the old days (maybe something like Tsulong now). If it's something that's going on more or less constantly, such that powered-up WG every 12 seconds is always going to have some targets to heal, it's going to be quite good.

The big counterpoint is that when the raid's not a full HP and you're really looking to pour out healing, the Tree cooldown is also extremely powerful. So in any fight where the really intense period is more limited to certain time, I'd much rather have Tree running. I think the main analysis is whether the fight really doesn't have particular phases that are suited to a timer like Tree, and also whether it's a place where WG is very effective. (At a fight where neither Tree or SotF stand out especially, you'd just use Tree as a free healing cooldown).

SotF remains a bit niche, and still don't really like the design because scripting spells together in that way often goes against the flexibility you want to have. But where you don't have a clear use for Tree, and want to pump out numbers uniformly over the course of a fight, SotF will definitely help you.

jula · 01/03/13, 4:59 AM

Regarding Tsulong heroic healing:
Does the Bathed in Light (+500% healing) and The Light of Day (+1500% healing decays over 6 seconds) stack with +X% heal buffs such as Incarnation , Nature's Vigil , Nature's Swiftness and Dream Of Cenarius?
Do the Treants from Force of Nature share the +healing buff ?
Unglyphed Regrowth - will it refresh automatically if Tsulong is <50%? will the refreshed hot continue to be buffed by Bathed in Light when it auto refresh (if the original regrowth was)?
Is it worth to not heal without the buff, in order to keep the buffed Lifebloom stack rolling?
What is the highest hps rotation on the boss during the buff? i go by rejuv > swiftmend > regrowth

Numiro · 01/03/13, 5:52 AM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

I put a little more work into SotF since it's going to get more relevant now with the buff. TreeCalcs post: [Resto] TreeCalcs

At 70%, it is quite strong numerically. The big thing to work out about its practical value is how valid the assumption is that you're going to want to go through fights with SM and WG held in lockstep the whole time. Another important factor is that the talent is dramatically bolstered by the T14 bonus allowing you to do so, and will not be as strong once we move on to new gear.

In the basic TreeCalcs analysis, SotF and Tree are mostly on par in terms of total healing done, but as always with healing that may or may not mean much based on the particular situation. SotF's huge buff to WG is going to really matter when WG is highly effective at basically all times through a fight. The sort of constant raid damage where we'd HoT blanket nonstop in the old days (maybe something like Tsulong now). If it's something that's going on more or less constantly, such that powered-up WG every 12 seconds is always going to have some targets to heal, it's going to be quite good.

The big counterpoint is that when the raid's not a full HP and you're really looking to pour out healing, the Tree cooldown is also extremely powerful. So in any fight where the really intense period is more limited to certain time, I'd much rather have Tree running. I think the main analysis is whether the fight really doesn't have particular phases that are suited to a timer like Tree, and also whether it's a place where WG is very effective. (At a fight where neither Tree or SotF stand out especially, you'd just use Tree as a free healing cooldown).

SotF remains a bit niche, and still don't really like the design because scripting spells together in that way often goes against the flexibility you want to have. But where you don't have a clear use for Tree, and want to pump out numbers uniformly over the course of a fight, SotF will definitely help you.

Have you done any math on how well SotF compares to tree of life during <10 seconds to heal burst damage like on empress? I started doing some math but haven't got around to finish it yet, it's also dependant how good you are at lining up the lifebloom bloom with the window since the hot is quite weak. (If you even use lifebloom, rejuvenation is better if it's a 9+ second window or something, can't exactly remember the times in my head)

• Hamlet · 01/03/13, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by jula

Regarding Tsulong heroic healing:
Does the Bathed in Light (+500% healing) and The Light of Day (+1500% healing decays over 6 seconds) stack with +X% heal buffs such as Incarnation , Nature's Vigil , Nature's Swiftness and Dream Of Cenarius?
Do the Treants from Force of Nature share the +healing buff ?
Unglyphed Regrowth - will it refresh automatically if Tsulong is <50%? will the refreshed hot continue to be buffed by Bathed in Light when it auto refresh (if the original regrowth was)?
Is it worth to not heal without the buff, in order to keep the buffed Lifebloom stack rolling?
What is the highest hps rotation on the boss during the buff? i go by rejuv > swiftmend > regrowth

I haven't been able to test Tsulong much specifically, but the buff is implemented a general increase to healing: Bathed in Light - Spell - World of Warcraft (Mod Healing Power %), and that should mean that it stacks multiplicatively with all other buffs.
Regrowth is worth checking, that's interesting.

Lifebloom--let's see. If you refresh right at the end of a buff, your Lifebloom is ticking for 17%*6 = 102% of spellpower, just over once a second (before mastery). Your high-HPS heal, crit Regrowth, heals for 197% spellpower (do Seed get triggered on Tsulong?) every 1.3 seconds or so. So spamming Regrowth is more HPS can letting the super-Lifebloom tick. However, you're not going to have mana (I imagine) to spam RG on Tsulong 100% of the time (and/or have to heal other people sometimes), and if that's the case, may as well not do it while the LB is ticking.

Hmm, although flip side, you do want to time an LB to bloom during Bathed in Light (which would mean you can basically never RG him unless you use Glyph of Blooming). That buffed bloom is worth 225%*6, which is as much as 6-7 Regrowths.

Originally Posted by Numiro

Have you done any math on how well SotF compares to tree of life during <10 seconds to heal burst damage like on empress? I started doing some math but haven't got around to finish it yet, it's also dependant how good you are at lining up the lifebloom bloom with the window since the hot is quite weak. (If you even use lifebloom, rejuvenation is better if it's a 9+ second window or something, can't exactly remember the times in my head)

The damage pattern is ~10s of high damage across the raid? Well, SotF lets you cast a WG for 150%. Tree lets you cast one for 115%*8/6, which is around 144%, and also spread out over more people. And then with Tree you'd have all your blooms supporting it, which allow for many instant free CCRG's during the damage period. So Tree is probably better for just one instance, but it depends on how often it happens. If it's frequent through the whole fight, then probably SotF. If it's like once a minute or something so you can cover most of them with either Tree or Tranq, then probably Tree.

fearin · 01/06/13, 3:57 PM

I need help clarifying something here.

I am using [Scroll of Revered Ancestors] and [Vial of Ichorous Blood] atm.
They can both be activated at the same time, resulting in some very nice on demand spirit and regen.

Is this intended? I tried using 2 on use trinkets on my level 87 hunter and they triggered CD on each other.
I am between buying [Relic of Chi-Ji] and [Heartwarmer Medallion]
If O:S trinket and the Scroll can be used at the same time, i feel that is the superior choice. Maybe it is anyway but i got 2 lockouts till i got enough VP for the O:S trinket.