[Resto] Mists of Pandaria 5.2 - Page 29

• Hamlet · 01/18/13, 12:30 PM

I kind of like the heal that maintains a constant total regardless of number of targets, rather than requiring 6 targets to get full value, because of the flexibility to use on a tank or other single target.

Akusei · 01/18/13, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

I kind of like the heal that maintains a constant total regardless of number of targets, rather than requiring 6 targets to get full value, because of the flexibility to use on a tank or other single target.

THIS!

From a design perspective, it really would homogenize the big raid CDs to the point where there would be more equity between the healing specs. It is definitely a challenge to both create differences in flavor while keeping different healing classes similar enough that one doesn't have huge advantages over the others or one being far behind the others. Add to this the 25 v 10 formats, 5 man dungeons and different scales of pvp and you have a recipe for a near impossible challenge.

Maybe the lesser of all evils is to handle the big raid wide CDs the same or nearly the same between the healing specs. Making Tranq, mushrooms, circle of healing, uplift, <insert various large healing CD> too good in one format or terrible in another, for lack of a better word, sucks.

In any case, as far as mushrooms double dipping on mastery, they do double dip in the sense that they charge faster with the more mastery you have and do more healing the more mastery you have. But they're also double dipping from spell power and crit in the same way. Ultimately, since they're capped (from a charging perspective), they don't double dip in the amount of healing they can spit out.

I'm not sure if the following changes would make mushrooms OP or not but I like the idea of taking the placing of shrooms off the GCD but putting the popping of them back on the GCD and possibly the RE-placing of shrooms keeping the stored healing. It would still take time to physically move them to a new spot but would actually make them useful in the sense that you don't have to plan 45s in advance and rely on 9 or 24 other people not messing up by being out of position. The range on mushrooms is just so small that it's hard to hit people with that heal. My knowledge of the other healing specs is a bit limited but I don't think there are any other abilities that are so narrow in their range of effectiveness. Possibly monk mastery orbs are but I guess I look at that altogether differently. Ultimately, it won't make a difference how much healing they CAN do if no one is in range of the heal.

Dack · 01/19/13, 3:25 AM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

I kind of like the heal that maintains a constant total regardless of number of targets, rather than requiring 6 targets to get full value, because of the flexibility to use on a tank or other single target.

In MoP healers no longer have to spamheal the tanks -> They have more HP compared to the dmg they take, and dmg is more often on the raid. With this in mind, and semi static tank positions, WM is just too powerfull as tank healing, if the mushrooms heal for full health on the tank -> instant cast out of GCD spell that heals for 450k? Sounds like Lay of Hands without the 10 min cooldown, but a position and 'anticipation'/overhealing requirement instead.

Not that I would mind having a tool like that...

jula · 01/19/13, 2:27 PM

Mushrooms already pretty efficient (in hpm at least, not so much in hps). This change will only make them better. Remember you can bloom them before they are fully charged, if you see people will have to move out of range soon. At least get something out of it then. Then plant new shrooms to continue accumulating overhealing.

Yes the mechanics are not ideal, it takes long to charge to full and has small radius but its not like it will make us weaker than we are today. It is a net buff. Get the most you can out of it. Maybe it will not be very useful in some high movement fights / spreading out fights but its not like it is the only problematic healing spell in that regard. Consider PoH being group based, healing rain etc. There are also fights where i can see this being very useful.

• Hamlet · 01/19/13, 3:30 PM

Originally Posted by Hobnaker

How do you (or others) feel about going for the ~3k Haste breakpoint for challenge modes? I know you mention picking it up, but I've been hearing ignoring haste for the most part and going heavy mastery is better. Your HoTs don't seem to be doing much regardless, you seem to have to heavily rely on Regrowth.

Originally Posted by Hamlet

You're right, that's interesting. I guess the issue is how much mastery I could get even if I eschewed haste. Remember crit is quite worthless when you're using heavy Regrowth and Spirit is of very marginal value when you're using so much Regrowth also. So other than mastery, you don't have much of any stat besides haste you really care about. If I could really get 2000 mastery or something you're probably right, I would. But I'll have to see how much room I really have to reforge more of it.

I thought about this a bit more. I'm inclined to keep the haste. First of all on raw numbers, I check my last gold challenge run and about 15% of healing was Rejuv. So losing 1/6 of that is around 2% healing, comparable to a little over 1000 mastery (imagining reforging 1000 haste->mastery hypothetically). But also, well over 15% of healing was Lifebloom, and that gets full value from haste anyway, and the haste does have some value on Regrowth spam depending on the situation. Also, ~3 seconds of duration added to Rejuv is better for maintaining on tank and a little easier for Swiftmending.

I was also thinking about trinkets. You basically have flat int with a regen proc (Price of Progress, Spirits of the Sun, Relic) which are all pretty close to interchangeable, and passive regen with an Int proc (Fruit Barrel, Seal, Alch Stone). The former tend to have something like 847 Int and a little under 1000 Spi equivalent regen. The latter have 847 secondary and a proc worth around 1100 Int. I'm inclined towards the latter--it's a pretty big mean Int gap and I think procs aren't bad in challenge since there's downtime. Also when the secondary is passive it can be reforged to mastery.

apostolis · 01/20/13, 4:42 PM

Few things someone mentioned earlier about range and taking long to charge.

First of all since i test it on ptr : you can even be out of sight (i plant mushrooms outside a city and went inside (building) and still charge them ( i used a rejuv on myself) or got healed (i further than 8yards) . The only range issue is to detonate them which is roughly 30-40 yards max distance from what i remember. Also the highest charge i had in my current gear was 125k per mushroom (no raid buffs).

• Hamlet · 01/21/13, 3:20 PM

Got a few more challenge videos out, if people are interested. List so far is here: Challenge Mode Narrated Videos - YouTube

Armory right now has the setup I've been using for them: Hamlet @ Mal'Ganis - Community - World of Warcraft
It's basically what I described a couple posts up.

• Hamlet · 01/25/13, 12:03 AM

Just stumbled on the fact that the Regrowth HoT doesn't get the 60% crit chance looking at a log: Spell details for Regrowth - 23-01 20:06 - Undying Resolution - World of Logs

Random little thing that makes unglyphed RG look slightly worse, I should fix in the sheet.

Numiro · 01/26/13, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Just stumbled on the fact that the Regrowth HoT doesn't get the 60% crit chance looking at a log: Spell details for Regrowth - 23-01 20:06 - Undying Resolution - World of Logs

Random little thing that makes unglyphed RG look slightly worse, I should fix in the sheet.

I'd suggest that you post this on the official forums as this is probably an undiscovered bug. I'll post it on the EU forums.

apostolis · 01/27/13, 11:03 AM

Few things i notice from my logs (using comparebot) comparing similar fights , kills , same raids etc was that while i have increase my crit % (as well as keeping same high ammount of mastery and same haste 5732-sotf-) some spells appear to have their crit value down (the sample is not huge and could be just justified to pure luck) but wild mushroom bloom crit is down 2%-4% and only show an increase in crit % with max use of mushrooms (crit % went up 2%-4% when i used mushrooms more)

Reju hot crit % also went down with more % crit and lifebloom hot crit remain stable in all fights (only shown a 0.1% increase with every 0.5%-1% crit change e.g. from 23.1% to 23.2% and finally 23.3% in last raids).

So i am kinda confused with how crit scales.

Concerning regrowth glyph i have change my glyphs to unglyph regrowth in last 10 days to see how it affects the healing . My avg heal from it has go down around 10k healing and i am standing on 87% to 89% crit in raids which i believe is the reason for the difference in avg heals.

I also have the regrowth hot crit chance at 35% to 46.3% at my logs from this month (shows an increase in % to scale with crit % increase in gear) So unless its a bug is as hamlet mentioning the unglyphed rg seems worse right now.

Chainfire · 01/29/13, 9:19 AM

Originally Posted by apostolis

Few things i notice from my logs (using comparebot) comparing similar fights , kills , same raids etc was that while i have increase my crit % (as well as keeping same high ammount of mastery and same haste 5732-sotf-) some spells appear to have their crit value down (the sample is not huge and could be just justified to pure luck) but wild mushroom bloom crit is down 2%-4% and only show an increase in crit % with max use of mushrooms (crit % went up 2%-4% when i used mushrooms more)

All of the above is anecdotal evidence? Unless there is a a huge discrepancy between tons and tons of logs I wouldn't warrant even looking into this.

Originally Posted by apostolis

"So i am kinda confused with how crit scales."

600 crit rating = 1% crit chance, flat scaling.

• Hamlet · 01/29/13, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Numiro

I'd suggest that you post this on the official forums as this is probably an undiscovered bug. I'll post it on the EU forums.

Will try to remember, although I'm guessing its intended since most of the passive spell effects that are former talents mirror the way the old talents worked.

Originally Posted by apostolis

Concerning regrowth glyph i have change my glyphs to unglyph regrowth in last 10 days to see how it affects the healing . My avg heal from it has go down around 10k healing and i am standing on 87% to 89% crit in raids which i believe is the reason for the difference in avg heals.

I also have the regrowth hot crit chance at 35% to 46.3% at my logs from this month (shows an increase in % to scale with crit % increase in gear) So unless its a bug is as hamlet mentioning the unglyphed rg seems worse right now.

I've seen other people trying to play around with this unglyphed Regrowth comparison lately. I think people are just antsy waiting for new content or buffs and fishing for ways to improve meters a bit. Nothing's changed with RG since the beginning of the expansion--glyphed and unglyphed versions do almost exactly the same raw healing. But even if glyphed did slightly less you'd still probably use it because the instant heal delivery (and completely consistent) is basically always better.

apostolis · 01/29/13, 9:46 PM

Originally Posted by Chainfire

All of the above is anecdotal evidence? Unless there is a a huge discrepancy between tons and tons of logs I wouldn't warrant even looking into this.

600 crit rating = 1% crit chance, flat scaling.

Hello styx ex member of method and thank you for your kind comments i said and quote myself "the sample is not huge and could be just justified to pure luck"

So i havent look at 200 logs from same boss but logs from last months trying to compare same fights and as similar number of hits of same spell etc. Hamlet mentioned something and i also mentioned something and we wait for more people to check their logs and see if that is the case or not . I dont see a reason for a personal attack.

Yes 600 crit is 1% crit chance but assuming you have unglyph regrowth and full raid buffs what in paper is the crit % of regrowth ? 60% + your own crit % + raid buff crit so in my case 60% + 18,52% which is fully raid buffed making roughly 80% chance to have regrowth crit? then why my regrowth is always varies from 85% to 90% crit % and the hot never goes above 50% chance.

My earliest question , which you can call stupid , was if the crit % is affecting our spells (hots,direct healing) as it should have affected ? Yes i know its an RNG stat and its not a guarantee like saying 1 out 2 spells will be a crit if you have 50% crit but then how can you ensure it working as intended and its not a very weak stat. Also since as i said with increasing crit slightly every week the % chance of regrowth to crit is increasing would that mean that if i sit at a theoritical number of crit (fully raid buff) i will have 100% regrowth crits without using the glyph?

Thank you for time hamlet to answer and everyone else who will answer (if people answer it

)

Good luck in everyone progression before 5.2 come on live server.

Erdluf · 01/30/13, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

5.2 and other notes:
--Can someone check whether CW gets extra ticks from haste (should be same a Regrowth, 4717 + buff). I heard it doesn't, but I keep forgetting. Otherwise the description doesn't really change, I guess you'd take it if you really want an efficient 30s cooldown HoT rather than NS, which is still dubious.

Just tested on live (5.1) in Moonkin form, 4879 Haste (17.05%). 3 ticks (one of which crit).

• Hamlet · 01/30/13, 11:13 AM

Ok, thanks. Guide should probably note that too since it's weird.