[Resto] Mists of Pandaria 5.2 - Page 3

Kjeldorian · 09/28/12, 1:15 PM

Obtained one on live, did some logging for about an hour in heroics, shortest duration between procs was 15 sec for 5082 mana with most procs occurring every 16-20 seconds. This results in an MP5 equivalent between 1271 (ICD avg 20 seconds) to 1694 mp5 (15 seconds). Given how this mana return is greater than any of the other available trinkets by a factor of two, I do not expect the ICD to remain that way for long.

Ryûjin · 09/30/12, 6:59 AM

Originally Posted by Kjeldorian

Obtained one on live, did some logging for about an hour in heroics, shortest duration between procs was 15 sec for 5082 mana with most procs occurring every 16-20 seconds. This results in an MP5 equivalent between 1271 (ICD avg 20 seconds) to 1694 mp5 (15 seconds). Given how this mana return is greater than any of the other available trinkets by a factor of two, I do not expect the ICD to remain that way for long.

Got the same results. In a 5m fight it was about 1400 mp5. Seems way too strong compared to the other trinkets.

Payday · 10/01/12, 3:54 PM

Will it be worth going above 3043 haste for the extra Regrowth ticks at 5730 and 6652 when gear capable of those numbers is available? It seems a druid would have to specifically gear for near pure haste to achieve that mark, while reducing our efficiency with rejuvenation. Putting that extra value (~3600) into mastery instead gains about 7.5% potency on all of our HoTs and thusly improves efficiency.

As we gain regen, we will use less nourish and regrowth is fast already, so any bonus to general casting speed will diminish and our percentage of healing via HoTs will increase making mastery more important. Until we are at a gear point where it's difficult to not have 6652 haste I don't think we'll benefit as much from haste as we will from mastery once beyond the 3043 break.

♦ Earen · 10/01/12, 4:51 PM

No. Once you are at the 3043 breakpoint, you do not want to give up other stats for haste until such time that you can achieve the 5730 (with SotF) or 6652. As stated, haste becomes our weakest stat outside of breakpoints. The important breakpoints to reach are for Rejuv and Wild Growth.

e: I think I am confused by your commentary, as there are not Regrowth breakpoints at the numbers listed, and I think you mean Rejuv/WG. In time, I feel that gear may lend itself to supporting the higher breakpoints without too much trouble. I could be wrong, and if our gear never gets to that point, then you will stay at the lower breakpoint. However, if it does become possible, it will be worth the effort to achieve them.

Payday · 10/01/12, 6:02 PM

Sorry for any confusion. When I say beyond 3043, I don't mean between break points. I mean beyond 3043 is the 6652 break point worth the loss of efficency (both mana and cast time) and loss of significant mastery (and perhaps spirit). How much healing does an extra tick of Wild Growth give us compared to 7.5% additional healing on all HoTs (including Wild Growth).

I haven't constructed my BiS list yet as I'm still working on obtaining my pre-raid set. 6652 may be possible in this first epic tier, but it would likely mean gearing for pure haste. Perhaps in the future (T15/16) it may be possible to achieve 6652 in a trivial fashion while not sacrificing too much in other stats making that break more attractive. At the same time though, with improved gear comes enough regen, that we will no longer be casting as much nourish and relying more on HoTs and Regrowth, which doesn't benefit much from haste, especially when glyphed.

My underlying question to all of this is will it ever benefit us to equip more than 3043 haste at any gear level in this expansion? Unless we can reach 13426 haste to gain the group of bonus ticks from 12834 to 13426 I question the loss of mastery and efficiency when going above 3043 and below 13426.

magiama9 · 10/01/12, 6:34 PM

Hi there! I was looking at the list of trinkets that we'll be looking for, and noticed some inconsistencies with your listing for the Darkmoon Card trinket, [Relic of Chi Ji]. You list it as having 956 static intellect, while the version that went live has 1157 intellect.

If it stays at 1157 intellect and 750 odd MP5, it will easily be one of our best trinkets through regular raiding and possibly a good second trinket choice for regen in heroic raids. It beats out [Jade Courtesan Figurine] and [Scroll of Revered Ancestors] rather handily.

Personally, I expect to be using [Price of Progress] and the DMC trinket for regen well into the first tier. I'll test out my DMC trinket once the faire opens and report back.

Dummy · 10/01/12, 7:16 PM

Originally Posted by Payday

I haven't constructed my BiS list yet as I'm still working on obtaining my pre-raid set. 6652 may be possible in this first epic tier, but it would likely mean gearing for pure haste. Perhaps in the future (T15/16) it may be possible to achieve 6652 in a trivial fashion while not sacrificing too much in other stats making that break more attractive. At the same time though, with improved gear comes enough regen, that we will no longer be casting as much nourish and relying more on HoTs and Regrowth, which doesn't benefit much from haste, especially when glyphed.

My underlying question to all of this is will it ever benefit us to equip more than 3043 haste at any gear level in this expansion? Unless we can reach 13426 haste to gain the group of bonus ticks from 12834 to 13426 I question the loss of mastery and efficiency when going above 3043 and below 13426.

As you mentioned one big issue is that you sacrifice a lot of other stats, if it is just crit and mastery that is completly fine, but if you cut into spirit or even int to reach the haste cap the haste cap will not be as good anymore.

the other thing you should recognise is that, as mentioned above, haste between those breakpoints is very weak, so until you reach your desired gear it will be relativly "bad", as you can only reforge so much, that then the progress is probably over anyway.

imho the higher breakpoints will become interesting in future raiding tiers, but not just now

♦ Earen · 10/01/12, 8:13 PM

Originally Posted by magiama9

Hi there! I was looking at the list of trinkets that we'll be looking for, and noticed some inconsistencies with your listing for the Darkmoon Card trinket, [Relic of Chi Ji]. You list it as having 956 static intellect, while the version that went live has 1157 intellect.

Fixed.

Venomous · 10/02/12, 9:36 AM

1. Would love to drum up some discussion on Professions for us Resto Druids - I know the general rule of thumb is they are all 'similar' expect for JC which I believe has become the 'weaker' of the non-gathering professions. It seems that Blacksmithing is now a no-brainier as secondary stats have become so valuable, but for the 2nd profession I'm having a tough time deciding.

Many are of the opinion of Tailoring, but I am concerned with it being a 'proc' rather then a straight static value - has anyone been through what I am/done some further hard maths

?

2. With Season 12 going live now, what pieces would you suggest aiming for pre-raiding? I see you listed a few PvP pieces in the OP, but a few Spirit pieces are missing - is there an order we should look at purchasing these, maybe the 2pc over the misc Rings/Amulets?

Kjeldorian · 10/02/12, 3:18 PM

PvP set-

The two piece (500 PvP power) is worthless the four piece is valuable (30 second IB, 13 sec SM)

Gearing for the WG breakpoint at 6k is doable but at a huge cost to spirit, it's safer to go with the 3k RJ breakpoint until you acquire enough gear and experience to lose spirit.

♦ Earen · 10/02/12, 5:23 PM

We’re working to adjust current Justice and Honor gear to better align with intended values. Currently it’s more lucrative to run Battelgrounds for ilvl 464 epics, and convert all Justice to Honor to gear up. While some crossover is fine, the most optimal way to gear for PvE doesn’t make sense to happen through PvP.

This hotfix will ideally go out today, and once applied will change all Justice and Honor items (including those already purchased) in the following ways:

Justice Items
Current – ilvl 450 Rare
New – ilvl 458 Rare

Honor Items
Current – ilvl 464 Epic
New – ilvl 458 Rare

We’ll be increasing the PvP Power and Resilience on the Honor items by 15% to compensate for this change.

Again, our design in Mists of Pandaria is to allow for a greater degree of crossover between PvE and PvP using the same gear, but the original item levels simply made Honor gear (through Battlegrounds or conversion of Justice to Honor) a far better route to gear up for PvE. Players who enjoy PvE shouldn’t feel forced to PvP to get the best gear, and vice versa.

This may devalue the PvP gear some, even with the set bonuses. Will have to look at what the new stats look like once they are finished.

apostolis · 10/02/12, 8:13 PM

Some quick questions/thoughts for you all :

1) Nature's Vigil is affecting tranquility ? Is the 6% passive intellect fron heart of wild better in short fights and lose its value in longer fights due to nature's vigil being a 3min cd.
1.a) Assuming we take sotf as talent which talent compliment it better? heart of wild or nature's vigil? Since with sotf we lose our 3min cd burst so nature's vigil is somehow cover for it .

2) I dont think we accurately measure how good sotf talent is vs tree since healing is dynamic therefore we dont cast swiftmend on cd in addition since some classes receive bonus in incoming healing (or this is not true anymore? e.g. rogue,shaman etc.) we cant predict which classes will receive the wild growth (assuming 25man raiding for this sentence).

3) Why everyone consider mastery to be bad in mist? Its still a direct buff to our heal even if we get mastery buff in raids)
3.a) Would we care for crit more ? How is it affecting our mana regen and healing in relation to clearcasting and living seed ? Is this comment in the guide accurate " All healing effects are able to crit" ?

4) Should we use more intellect or mana potions?

5) Do you think it worths keeping 2 heroic gear pieces for mana regen issues? Or does't worth it at all due to increase stats from 463 (at least) items?

Thank you.

Kjeldorian · 10/03/12, 4:28 AM

@Price of Progress "Hotfix"

Price of Progress change from the 15 sec ICD to a 45 sec ICD as of 10.03.12 meaning it has a ~500 mp5 still superior to the other dungeon trinkets.

Kjeldorian · 10/03/12, 4:54 AM

@ PvP "Hotfix"

The question here will be if the ilvl 458 PvP gear with sockets compares to the many ilvl 464 Heroic Dungeon pieces, many of which lack sockets. Personally, the dramatic reduction in an external CD on tanks during progression can have a great value.

@ Questions
1. Tranquility is affected by Nature's Vigil, HoTW is good for a sustained healing increase where if you have a predictable burst healing requirement Nature's Vigil will shine.
1. a. With SoTF, either talent works just follows the comments above with sustained healing vs burst healing.

2. I don't really consider ToL to be a burst healing mechanic, at most a mana CD / tank CD with the sustained regrowths. SoTF certainly has benefit in some fights where there are burst mechanics for damage on the raid.

3. You will have to run the numbers, my approximations have mastery coming out ahead. Mainly due to the reliability versus the overheal that crit tends to do.

4. With limitation of one potion per fight, you are better off with more spirit and to get more int / mastery as you get more comfortable with your mana availability.

5. I don't think it's worth keeping 410 DS gear because of the stat elevation made in MoP outweighs the mana especially since you can't use the MoP gems in the 410 gear so you lose a lot of potential gemming.

Regallion · 10/03/12, 5:40 AM

A few questions for you guys~
1. haste breakpoints. As far as i can see those are unchanged from cataclysm( i can still see that 2004 break we all know and love) yet at level 90... arent't they obsolete?
2. Why do people hate on displacer beast so much? it's a blink for purposes of getting out of stuff quickly and it's vanish for saving on repair costs. ofc multiplicative 15% are cooler but still... why do you love wild charge?
3. Do resto druids actually...use nourish? i haven't used it since i was level 15 and never looked back. With the changes to mastery timing swiftmend is enough to maintain it so is there any actual purpose to using it?
Oh and HotW lasts 45 seconds not 30 what's up with that description.