My guildmate and I were having a conversation regarding Nourish last night and how it compares to the respective heals of the other four healing classes. Mostly, looking at the cost of nourish and what we receive comparitively for the time/mana spent. Since we've discussed Nourish likely needing a boost, and Nourish in general here a few times, I did a little digging today and thought I'd post up the comparisons for thought/discussion.

Note: it should be kept in mind that base mana for Priests/Monks do not have any modifiers and their base mana is 300k.

Druids - Nourish - 10.2% base mana, heals for 6151-7148 (+61.4% spell power). Will heal for an additional 20% if a HoT is on the target.

Shaman - Healing Wave - 9.9% base mana, heals for 7790-8899 (+75.6% spell power). If glyphed, will heal the caster for 20% of the amount healed.

Paladin - Holy Light - 12.6% base mana, heals for 8390-9347 (+75.5% spell power).

Priest - Heal - 1.9% base mana, heals for 9848-11443 (+102.4% spell power).

Monk - Soothing Mist - 1% base mana, heals for 20552 - 23872 (+17.92% speed power), 8 second channel.

The reason I bring this up, and point it out, is that even assuming the 20% boost to Nourish and all classes having an equal amount of spell power, it heals for quite a bit less comparatively. With just a cursory look (and the briefest math), I think Hamlet's statement earlier that Nourish likely needs a boost is fairly spot on. Granted he was referencing it in comparison with where it falls into place in our toolkit, but I think stepping out of that insular look also adds support Nourish needing a boost.

Note also that Pal/Shm have passive 25% base healing if wowhead's up to date. And the easiest way to compare mana costs is to multiply Pst/Monk by 5 to account for their large base mana pool.

What I don't know offhand is what if any meaningful benefits all the other classes get from their small heal mechanically (e.g. Monks get Chi from Soothing Mist).

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Overall I don't want to get too far into the class balance thing (as usual). Really Nourish just doesn't fit well when Rejuv has been the actual basic heal for so long.

Shamans - get a speed buff to casting their slow heal buff from casting Riptide / Chain Heal, via Tidal Waves, and a chance at mana restoration via Resurgence.

Paladins - get the full Beacon of Light transfer, no other benefit.

Priests - Disc / Holy gain no benefit from casting Heal other than the low cost (have not actively raid healed since Cata so low chance of being incorrect)

Monks - Soothing Mist has a 25% chance to gain 1 Chi and in 5.1 will also activate Power Jabs generate an additional bonus Chi every 22 seconds. Also while Channeling their big heal hot, Enveloping Mist, and their flash heal, Surging Mist, are instant heal.

Druids - refreshing lifebloom and mastery.

Given the current state of raid healing from the perspective of a 25 Heroic Raider,

This may seem like a gripe post, of which I apologize, I am simply highlighting large differences between class mechanics in the current MoP raiding situation.

Monks are currently superior versus druids for raid coverage because of the cost and efficiency of their HoT. Renewing Mist costs 4.6% Base versus our 3.2% Base, works like Prayer of Mending in that it duplicates itself FOUR times at FULL duration to either a nearby or a faraway target based on Glyph preference. Limitations is that Renewing Mist has an 8 second CD which is countered that you can refresh the duration of this ~18 second HoT on all targets with Renewing Mist (upwards of 8-10 targets) via a 45 second CD. This chained with Uplift their variation of Swiftmend which does not place an Efflo but also lacks a CD and has a ~6% Base cost heals all targets that have the smart heal.
--In progression the limitation is that Rdruids can't prehot to gather the coverage needed before a spike as well a monk can in 25s. A monk that monitors their own HoTs well can hit 18-21 targets with a personal swiftmend (Read as regardless of range or position) every forty five seconds (3x Renewing Mist, Thunder Focus Tea, Uplift, 2x Renewing Mist, and Uplift to cover spikes)


Shamans are currently locked into a healing rotation, contrary to the demands of flexibility that some have expressed, the rotation consists of Unleash Weapon followed by Healing Rain, the result is a very strong ground effect.
--In many fights, raids will stack in 25 so the limitation of Healing Rain is not strong complimented by the utility of Mana Tide to other healers, a raid damage mitigation CD via Spirit Link Totem, and an additional healing burst with Healing Tide Totem, as a result they have a larger raid toolkit box than a Druid.

Paladins are strong at raid healing due to the strength of their mastery allowing them to pre shield readily with any heal, while usage of Holy Radiance allows for a 10% splash of their go to spell, Holy Shock. Complimented by their diverse toolkit to handle many boss mechanics such as Hand of Purity (reduces DoT duration and damage), Hand of Sacrifice (Tank Cooldown), Hand of Protection / Salvation for situational, "I save you from Death or nullification of a Boss Mechanic." Raid CDs such as Devotion Aura and multiple HPS CDs in the form of either RNG with Divine Purpose (% chance for next spell to be cast at 3 Holy Power w/o Cost), Avenging Wrath, and Guardian of Ancient Kings.

The HPS of Restoration druids is limited from my experience in progression, I feel that the only usage at the moment to carry a druid if you have a full compliment of DPS druids is for the tank CD Ironbark, which restricts me to 4 pc PvP to maintain a 30 sec CD on Ironbark and some useful tools in case another druid dies. The limitation to tranquility results in a max of 12 targets healed versus other healing CDs (Healing Tide Totem scaling with Haste, Revival with no target restriction, and the ease of access to Tranquility via Symbiosis Spriests and DPS Druids). We are dramatically limited in comparison to the raw HPS of previous expansions which has been limited by our mana regeneration preventing Rejuvenation blanketing (which is being done well by another class at lower gear restrictions (Monks operate on a 1350 haste breakpoint versus our 3.3k) and the current limitation of reaching the 6.6k haste breakpoint due to gear availability.

The only additional perk that we have at the moment is our strength in sustained tank healing because of Omen of Clarity and the change to lifebloom, whether we are the best tank healer is a tangent we shall not diverge too. Rather our position as the raid healer has shifted with the introduction of the monk to the more middle ground between full raid coverage to tank healing.

I like to ask if some people use comparebot and notice that since last week their swiftmend crit % went down. In comparebot it shows also that when i was comparing logs (it shows two swiftmend spells -direct heal and hot i guess) the second Swiftmend which was critting for 33.3% last week to have a 0 value this week. I was wondering if its a bug in second case but i am also worry because my crit % is the same since last week and a 4% less crit in swiftmend in all fights seems worrying. To summarize my thinking i am trying to see if we had any hidden nerf thats why i am asking people to check their logs for that (use comparebot to make it easier) compare this week and previous week.

As for the argument about how weak is nourish i am currently trying to heal without using nourish at all . I havent seen an hps loss but mana is an issue now .Ofc concerning mana i cant really compare yet since i dropped spirit for mastery but hps wise its better to cast rejuv over nourish (in 25man) not to mention its better to cast mushrooms instead of nourish (esp if you dont have it glyph for faster casting).

p.s. When i complained about the imbalance of rshamans , monks i got a warning from the moderator . Seems its a real issue now and more people starting to acknowledge something i was mentioning before mop in all forums to get a reply from most "in mop due to the nature of fights healing is balance" -->obviously its not.

I have a couple of questions about LB mechanics i haven't seen answered. I'm stuck on a heroic Stone Guard 10 man right now and halfway through i came up with the idea that SotF will be better here than Incarnation (we have green dog active). Since the CDs of Swiftmend and Wild Growth are quite different and utilizing the HT glyph does not really help get Swiftmend off CD for every WG cast i started wandering how else could i effectively use SotF proc. So i am wondering:
1. Does LB scale with haste/crit dynamically or when it is cast?
I have a feeling that it is not scaled dynamically, so other questions
2. I cast a +50% hasted LB and this is the 1st stack. Then i add the 2nd stack. Does the LB keep the speed buff or lose it?
3. I cast a +50% hasted LB to renew previous LB. Does the LB gain the speed buff or not?
4. I cast a +50% hasted LB and then have it refreshed by direct heal. Does the LB keep the speed buff or lose it?

P.S. I don't really know how to measure if SotF is better than Incarnation or not. HPS numbers are too different from try to try depending on many different things. And maybe i just don't know what to do while i'm a tree : )

All easy to confirm standing in town (would be great if you did and reported back), but I think it should be:
1. Haste when cast, crit dynamically as far as we know.
2. Loses the buff.
3. Gains buff.
4. Loses the buff.

Basically unless I hear otherwise the assumption is always that a refresh mechanic (as opposed to an extend) will recheck haste/sp/mastery values (and also recompute number of ticks).

I am curious whether an SotF direct heal will give a hasted Lifebloom though. Would be simple for anyone to check (I will when I'm online again, which could be a while).

From my field testing it behaves as Hamlet and Hamsda said. I could not check dynamic or static crit though.

1. LB takes haste, int and Harmony from cast time.
2. Refreshes with either another LB or direct heal refresh hast, int and Harmony values.
3. SotF-ed direct heal indeed results in hasted LB.

With my current stats LB is 16 ticks while hasted LB is 24. I have 3069 haste.

Earen there is a slight edit needed on the haste breakpoint chart. 13426 should be WG with SotF, not just WG.

Had an interesting discussion about haste break points last night. As my available haste increases well above 3043 and 4717 is now reasonably in reach would it make sense to hit this mark (at the cost of mastery) and get the extra LB and RG ticks? Clearly I'd forgo the RG glyph which may be ok given base crit and windsong crit effects. Not sure if anyone has played with this scenario and deemed it passible or a clear HPS loser.