I feel like we're ignoring the beneficial parts of haste, and that it adds extra lifebloom ticks, it's essentially free regrowths and it's something I feel we shouldn't be ignoring when it comes to gearing, I'd love to see some math on this but I fear that my math skills are way inferior to many on this forum, so if anyone has the time and experience on calculating how much this would influence our healing then I'm fairly sure that haste isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Haste does benefit everything other then rejuvenation, especially considering the fact that you often are limited by GCD during high damage phases, even more so the further into the expansion we go.

Especially important for all of those that does 10 man raiding is that you're not decreasing your healing by hastening your hots, for example I'm more then capable of blanketing a raid during high damage phases, so adding haste to a rejuvenation is going to increase my healing even with that spell. It might be minimal, but I fear that we're simplifying way to much by saying that haste isn't benefical outside of caps.

I think the biggest takeaway from this is that Crit isn't bad, it's just not as good. So if you end up getting a piece of gear with crit, it's not the end of the world, just not ideal. All classes have a dump stat or two, this is just ours. And to be quite honest, at certain points in our gearing, haste might become our dump stat while we beef up crit in certain cases.

That's why it's useful to have a good understanding of how each of these stats scale and how they interact with our abilities. Which brings me to...

I think the amount of haste you're spending to get that 1% is not benefiting you nearly as much as you think it is. Let's say you get an additive amount of OoC procs (which is NOT how probability works). Over the course of an 8 minute fight you would get an additional .04 (proc chance per tick) * .01 (increase in proc chances) * 60 (seconds) 8 (minutes) = .192 additional procs per minute.

The haste factor really won't move the needle very much in the total number of additional procs you'll end up with. Keep in mind that the above is really crappy math for dealing with probabilities which actually favors your theory and not reality.

The stats that you're putting into haste aren't really helping your throughput or mana longevity as much as simply putting the haste into mastery or spirit.

The real challenge in making haste better in the long term is that it takes so much to get to a 2nd tick of Rejuv. The marginal increase in haste needed to go from 1 bonus tick to 2 is over 10,000! So along the way, the real throughput increases due to haste are only going to be seen in WG and LB. But now I'm starting to stray off topic.

Ultimately, being over haste cap isn't the end of the world, nor is having a bit more crit than you'd prefer. It's just that in a min/max world, once you hit 3043 haste, the secondary stats are best put into mastery or spirit. It just smooths out the healing output and makes things much more consistent.

As we get more crit passively and can afford to remove the RG glyph, haste will become more useful in that it will also affect the RG hot portion. Unfortunately, at this time, we simply don't have the budget to make that effective yet. Though, it is something to keep our collective eyes on going forward as the ilvl of the gear increase.

The math dork inside of me is a little excited at seeing all of the interesting scaling nuances we have. It's also nice to know that as we increase our gear, we don't simply have useless stats, though at certain points they may feel like it.

I think TreeCalcs should already account for the way that clearcasting will scale with haste, although it's a little messy. The system jumps through a bunch of hoops dealing with haste--first computes the mean tick rate and mean duration based on all your various haste buffs and whether they push you over breakpoints, and then estimates how often you have to refresh Lifebloom. I'll check sometime soon and see whether the smooth increase in CC proc rate tracks correctly in all this.

Just to estimate on a napkin though. Like you said 1% haste is 1% more clearcasting procs (relatively). So if you get a CC proc roughly every 25 seconds on average (that's at 0 haste), you'd expect 1% haste to give you an extra CCRG every 2500 seconds. So I'm not expecting this to be a large benefit.

No, I think it's absolutely terrible, sorry if that wasn't clear. In an average fight adding a few percentage points of haste will get you at most 1 more Regrowth/HT on average, the value of which will really depend on the circumstances where you get the proc; in terms of efficiency a clearcasting proc used in a situation where HoTs would suffice is worth less than in a situation where you'd need the higher burst healing and would be casting Regrowth anyway. Effectively replacing a Rejuv with a free Regrowth is worth half as much as replacing a Regrowth you'd be casting at full cost. For example, clearcasting procs in the opening phase of Will of the Emperor are worth a lot less than those once the bosses have actually spawned.

Paper napkin math indicates that adding 1 proc over the course of a 8-10 minute fight (so 2-4% haste) would thus be worth less than 300 spirit in terms of clearcasting efficiency even if it's a Regrowth you'd have been casting anyway, rather than a more efficient heal.

e: I think even that might be overstating it. Over a 10 minute fight it looks like it breaks down to around 4 haste rating equaling 1 spirit for efficiency assuming best case clearcasting proc use. Obviously this doesn't technically change as fight duration increases or decreases, but the shorter the fight the higher chance that tic speed differences get buried in simple variance.

As of last night, the shortest ICD is 45 seconds, average ICD is 47 seconds. Meaning [Price of Progress] is currently worth between ~565 mp5 - 529 mp5.

While we're on the topic of trinkets [Jade Courtesan Figurine] does not have an LFR version or a heroic version (no such as thing as LFR trash / Heroic trash). The normal mode has an average INT of 1079, average spirit of 898.75 or 503.3 mp5, will update the Heroic one once the game goes live.

It's never going to be the reason to get haste, but I just feel that we value haste outside of caps as something so very weak, but as I said earlier, it affects all of our spells because it makes us put out more healing faster, even though the rejuvenation GCD doesn't change everything else does as well as rejuvenation duration, essentially making us handle burst phases alot better, although we do spend more mana doing so.

Take for example Elegon Normal, my guild were struggling really hard in the final phase, both of our healers could enter the phase with full mana on any given try, yet we had such a long last phase that we would die before the boss. This is a scenario where haste would be benefical outside of caps because I could push rejuvenations up faster on specific high priority targets like the main tank and so on.

I'm not saying that OoC is the reason we should stack haste outside of caps, but I'm simply saying that the discussion seems to be forgetting the positive benefits of all other stats and that crit doesn't have the same capabilities when it comes to throughput OR mana preservation, this is something that won't scale with gear either, since the further we get into the expansion the larger our heals gets compared to max health, which in turns makes us overheal more and therefore value crit even less.

I hope this makes some kind of sense as to what I'm trying to say, it's in the middle of the night over here and I should've been in bed hours ago ^^

Rejuvenation has a 1 second GCD as long as you're restoration. You can have 100% haste or 0% haste, it's still one second.

At 90 with the 5% spell haste, your non-RJ GCD is 1.33 sec (3042 haste) vs 1.24 sec (6652) which is different by .09 seconds. Which means every 14.5 casts of LB / WG / RG you get one free cast, a little bit of haste between these two breakpoints would require a significantly more amount of spell casts to recoup your one free cast (133 - 14.5). You may feel like you're casting faster, but given how the game is a server side game, odds are that your perceived speed is an illusion.

You don't seem to understand that, your HPS with Rejuvenation is UNAFFECTED by haste between breakpoints because your GCD will always be one second and the number of ticks you gain is predetermined by the haste breakpoints. Why the value of haste between breakpoints is very, very low.

The question you have to ask yourself is if you're willing to sacrifice 2k - 3k of secondary stats to reach the next haste breakpoint which is a player preference if the math doesn't convince you.

While I agree with the rest of your post, it's not exactly true that HPS is "unaffected."

Regardless of where you are on the break points, let's say your Rejuv ticks once every 2.4 seconds with a given amount of haste. If you gain haste--without actually getting to the next break point--Rejuv will tick quicker. That is to say, you could bring it down to a tick every 2.3 seconds. If you're getting 4 ticks, for example, you end up shaving .4 seconds off of the total time of the duration of the spell. This, holding all other factors constant, is an increase in your Healing per Seconds (HPS) due to the reduction in the denominator (seconds).

In terms of HPS over a longer delta for time where you're not keeping Rejuv up on a target, the HPS will end up being the same but the same could be said with casting a spell 5 times over one minute or 5 times over 30 seconds and then waiting another 30 seconds. However, if you need to cast that same spell 5 times in 10 seconds vs 15 seconds, if you can do it in 10 seconds but not in 15 seconds due to haste limitations, you'll see an increase in HPS.

In cases where we're dealing with bursts of damage that need to be healed up quickly, it's possible the increase in haste which will make your ticks slightly more compact, will save someone where if you didn't have the extra haste, they would have died. This scenario is, of course, a very narrow view of healing as a whole and highly unlikely to make the difference all that often but I don't think we should make blanket comments that are mathematically false.

Thank you! Finally someone who understands what I'm trying to say. That combined with the fact that I'm raiding 10 man (where you acctualy can blanket when ever needed) means that haste is probably more valued for me then for most other healers, since in 10 man you have alot less spread on the damage, for example there's few encounters with more then 4 guys taking damage at the same time, adding haste here basiclly is an HPS boost because the time I'd spend doing other stuff is not as valueable as increasing the rejuvenation ticks I get. I'm basiclly saying if you're chosing between crit and haste you'll favour haste even though it's outside of the cap.

Haste in general is a lovely stat because it's basiclly the best way to increase our burst healing, sure it won't help alot of the time, but alot of the time you don't need that help. The times you wipe because of low healing is when it's either insanely high damage throughout a fight, jade guardian stone guards for example, or during bursts, elegon last phase, feng the Accursed and so on, and the burst is what haste handles better then all the other stats, atleast that's what I've seen when I tried to do the numbers, but as I said earlier, my math is no where close to those others on this forum as I barely passed it in senior high already.

It looks like they are going to be nerfing all of the Darkmoon trinkets. The proc on the [Relic of Chi-Ji] is being dropped to 2682. This will bring the average spirit on the trinket down to 1192 (currently 1345) and the MP5 on the trinket to 667.57 (currently 753.39). It will continue to be one of the strongest trinkets we have outside of Heroic Trinkets, with only the normal mode trinket from Tsulong out performing it.

Once the change goes live I will update the information in the first post.