[Resto] Mists of Pandaria 5.3 - Page 36

Kjeldorian · 03/15/13, 11:41 PM

Please note that although it's not a full percent, a few points in mastery rating will result in the increase in your hots albeit a few small points out of a scale of thousand point ticks, there will be no wasted points when it comes to INT and Mastery.

insanedruid · 03/15/13, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kjeldorian

Confirmed regarding the haste enhanced Lifebloom when refreshing with a SoTF enchanced direct heal.

It seems not working when apply on other player.

I tested in LFR.
SoTF seems to always work on selfcasting lifebloom.
But it only work on other target only if you cast a one-stack lifebloom.
Not if you try to refresh lifebloom with a SoTF direct heal no matter the number of stack.

Updated: not working when you try to transfer a 3-stack lifebloom from other player to self.

Can anyone confirm my result?

Lazerdollarz · 03/16/13, 4:42 AM

Tested this just now:

1) Refreshing a hasted Lifebloom with non-hasted Lifebloom = non-hasted Lifebloom.
2) Refreshing a hasted Lifebloom with hasted Lifebloom on self = hasted Lifebloom.
3) Refreshing a hasted Lifebloom with hasted Lifebloom on party member = non-hasted Lifebloom.
4) Refreshing a hasted Lifebloom with hasted Regrowth on self = hasted Lifebloom.
5) Refreshing a hasted Lifebloom with hasted Regrowth on party member = non-hasted Lifebloom.
6) Refreshing a non-hasted Lifebloom with hasted Lifebloom on self = hasted Lifebloom.
7) Refreshing a non-hasted Lifebloom with hasted Lifebloom on party member = non-hasted Lifebloom.
8) Transferring a stack of non-hasted Lifeblooms to or from party member to or from self with hasted Lifebloom = non-hasted Lifebloom.
9) Transferring a stack of hasted Lifeblooms from party member to self with hasted Lifebloom is impossible because of item 3.
10) Transferring a stack of hasted Lifeblooms from self to party member with hasted Lifebloom = non-hasted Lifebloom.

Qaajn · 03/16/13, 5:25 AM

Originally Posted by Lazerdollarz

Tested this just now:

1) Refreshing a hasted Lifebloom with non-hasted Lifebloom = non-hasted Lifebloom.
2) Refreshing a hasted Lifebloom with hasted Lifebloom on self = hasted Lifebloom.
3) Refreshing a hasted Lifebloom with hasted Lifebloom on party member = non-hasted Lifebloom.
4) Refreshing a hasted Lifebloom with hasted Regrowth on self = hasted Lifebloom.
5) Refreshing a hasted Lifebloom with hasted Regrowth on party member = non-hasted Lifebloom.
6) Refreshing a non-hasted Lifebloom with hasted Lifebloom on self = hasted Lifebloom.
7) Refreshing a non-hasted Lifebloom with hasted Lifebloom on party member = non-hasted Lifebloom.
8) Transferring a stack of non-hasted Lifeblooms to or from party member to or from self with hasted Lifebloom = non-hasted Lifebloom.
9) Transferring a stack of hasted Lifeblooms from party member to self with hasted Lifebloom is impossible because of item 3.
10) Transferring a stack of hasted Lifeblooms from self to party member with hasted Lifebloom = non-hasted Lifebloom.

This is very interesting indeed. I can confirm all your scenarios, trying it on wardens in moonglade, however there is one time it does work on party members. In all other situations, as you concluded, it become non-hasted.

11) Placing a single hasted Lifebloom on a party member = hasted lifebloom

Guess my attempts to use hasted lifebloom on our tanks during yesterdays raid was a waste. Oh well, it went pretty well anyhow.

[edit: Submitted a bug report too]

insanedruid · 03/17/13, 9:12 PM

Originally Posted by apostolis

Strange you had such an uptime on horridon trinket . I managed to win (coin) the thunderforge version tonight so i replaced darkmoon trinket(2/2 upgrade) to test it . In two fights council and tortos it never went above 21,5% uptime but if you calculate the mana it gives back is more than 2/2 upgraded darkmoon trinket by around 10k (depending on length of time) * I hope i didt made any mistakes when i calculated the difference in mana (assuming 50% uptime max of darkmoon trinket for better calculations ; while is usually around 40-41% uptime).

I also tested FON in tortos (i use sotf build even when nobody was using it) to see its healing during heavy period of times. It was avg 14317.7 avg . heal (i have 4 new items after tonight's raid so my stats are now different than the testing) and avg crit heals were 23723.6

In 258 hits 9 crit (so treants can crit with healing touch!) not a very high % but at least they can crit . In a 6 minute fight they did 1.05m healing.

p.s. Update : It is strange but i calculated my mana per 5 secs from thunderforge trinket right now to be 1003,708333333333 per 5 secs on a 6min fight and 1034,88053270662 on a 8min fight based on the ammount of mana i got back in that fight and based on the duration of the fight. If numbers are like that it means that i was wrong in what i said earlier that is better than reforge darkmoon trinket unless wol is showing wrong numbers for trinkets.

Just got a ilvl 536(asia 25-man thunderforge) horridon trinket today.
Here are the results (uptime %/ mp5):

council: 17.1% / 895mp5
tortos : 18.8% / 905mp5
megaera : 30.8% / 1845mp5

Dannyjoe · 03/17/13, 9:26 PM

Im wondering about the 5.th Tick of Tranquility.

I'm in party with a Elemental Shaman to get 5% haste buff.
I have 5500 Haste selfbuffed (i Like Sotf + WG. With Troll Berserking up i get 18 Ticks of WG

)

But when i look into my Combatlog is only see 4 big ticks (about 38k noncrit) of Tranquility and 8 ticks (about 19k) of the Hot which is applied by Tranquility.

What is wrong with me?

//Edit: Maybe I found the mistake on my own. It's only the HoT which is getting more ticks by Haste, right? So for example: 1.st Stack, 2.stack, 3.stack, + 5 ticks = 8 Ticks that appear in my combatlog

Chainfire · 03/18/13, 6:04 AM

I would go so far as to say refreshing LB with a hasted-Regrowth was never intended. It feels weird to have the properties of a regrowth propagate to a lifebloom, but I'm still not sure why people are using SotF to refresh lifebloom? Why not rejuv?

Pros:

You get faster LB ticks meaning more healing on the tank (stabilize healing)
More OoC procs to use for Regrowth

Cons:

You lock yourself out of using Regrowth on the tank to avoid refreshing a non-hasted LB
99% of the time you refresh LB before duration ends

Even looking at numbers (napkin math from my logs):
SotF Rejuv = 3 extra ticks of 25k = 75k
LB ticks for 3000... you would need 25 extra ticks for that to be equal, which you definitely don't get from SotF.

If I'm incorrect on anything please let me know as I'm really not seeing the point in SotF+LB.

Originally Posted by Dannyjoe

//Edit: Maybe I found the mistake on my own. It's only the HoT which is getting more ticks by Haste, right? So for example: 1.st Stack, 2.stack, 3.stack, + 5 ticks = 8 Ticks that appear in my combatlog

Correct. Tranq can never gain more ticks, only it's hot portion. Keep in mind though, it DOES decrease the cast time on Tranq quite a bit and having a 2s cast-time tranq can by really nice.

Hamsda · 03/18/13, 7:33 AM

Originally Posted by Dannyjoe

Im wondering about the 5.th Tick of Tranquility.

I'm in party with a Elemental Shaman to get 5% haste buff.
I have 5500 Haste selfbuffed (i Like Sotf + WG. With Troll Berserking up i get 18 Ticks of WG

)

But when i look into my Combatlog is only see 4 big ticks (about 38k noncrit) of Tranquility and 8 ticks (about 19k) of the Hot which is applied by Tranquility.

What is wrong with me?

//Edit: Maybe I found the mistake on my own. It's only the HoT which is getting more ticks by Haste, right? So for example: 1.st Stack, 2.stack, 3.stack, + 5 ticks = 8 Ticks that appear in my combatlog

I am not 100% certain about the HoT portion of the spell but neither Tranquility nor Divine Hymn/Hymn of Hope from a priest will gain additional ticks with haste, just the reduced channeling time. Blizzard removed this behaviour with 5.0, probably because those breakpoints were too crucial and strong in their mind.

Qaajn · 03/18/13, 7:51 AM

Originally Posted by Chainfire

I would go so far as to say refreshing LB with a hasted-Regrowth was never intended. It feels weird to have the properties of a regrowth propagate to a lifebloom, but I'm still not sure why people are using SotF to refresh lifebloom? Why not rejuv?

While I would understand that double dipping from SotF may be seen as unintended, even manually casting a lifebloom consumes the buff yet grant no haste to LB unless you target yourself. As for the reasons, you mentioned a few yourself. Another benefit is that you could spend less time healing the tank and intead cast heals on the raid while your SotF+LB and Rejuvenation keeps him up, and thus keeping the haste up too.

Originally Posted by Chainfire

Even looking at numbers (napkin math from my logs):
SotF Rejuv = 3 extra ticks of 25k = 75k
LB ticks for 3000... you would need 25 extra ticks for that to be equal, which you definitely don't get from SotF.

If I'm incorrect on anything please let me know as I'm really not seeing the point in SotF+LB.

You seem to use the healing for a single stack of lifebloom. Assuming 3k is correct, 3xLB would then be 9k each tick, with an extra 8.333 ticks needed to overtake Rejuvenation. As I can't remember the haste breakpoint formula, going from 0% haste (15 ticks) to 75% haste get you to 26 ticks. (15/[1/1.75]). It may not grant more total healing (depending on how the breakpoints behave with haste) but it could be worth it.

Glyph of Wild Growth

Is it really worth it now with 15 second CD on Swiftmend? I understand that it was a net gain to push WG cooldown 2 seconds for a constant +75% haste on 6 targets, but is the same true for 15 sec SM? It's less mana spent, but my napkin math show that it even for best case (15 ticks SotF+WG but only 8 ticks WG) result in less ticks.

Non-glyph (on 5 targets)
0 sec: SM
1.5 sec: SotF+WG - 15 ticks
9.5 sec: WG - 8 ticks
15 sec: SM
17.5 sec: SotF+WG - 15 ticks
Hold WG
30 (0) sec: SM
31.5 (1.5) sec: SotF+WG

Total: (2*15+8)*5=190 ticks on 5 targets over 30 seconds - 6.333 ticks/second
The reason that I hold WG after the second SM is that the cycle isn't tight, and I assume it's unacceptable to wait more then 2.5 sec (GCD included) after the SM and not do anything while waiting for WG cooldown to come back up. Assuming you're healing output is strained, or optimising healing in a given time is of little point.

Glyph (on 6 targets)
0 sec: SM
1.5 sec: SotF+WG - 15 ticks
Hold WG
15 (0) sec: SM
16.5 (1.5) sec: SotF+WG

Total: 15*6=90 ticks on 6 targets over 15 seconds - 6.0 ticks/second

Conclusion: Even with worst conditions, Non-Glyph heal for more, at the cost of increased mana. Is it worth it? I can't tell myself. Personally I like being able to WG more, so run with no glyph. But I'm not cutting edge either.

[edit: with 8/15 ticks, running with no glyph but using WG on CD, if more then 22.86% of your WG are affected by SotF, the result will be more healing. Ignoring that some of your SotF will instead increase other heals and as such make the actual portion for the same total healing done less, as glyphed would want to use all SotF (and is assumed to) on WG.]

Kjeldorian · 03/18/13, 11:03 AM

Napkin math from beta:

Beta Discussion of SoTF

The only changes with respect to this conversation is that the new SoTF adds 2 additional ticks bringing the deceit in the scenario from -713k hp to -300k hp. Gearing selection was for the 6.6k breakpoint but would only influence the size of the heals as there are no additional tick gains from improved SoTF except for a SoTF enhanced RJ would get one more at 6.6k vs 5.5k.

tldr - Better to sync every other if you're not using T14 4pc, Unglyphed WG is still a loss because you can use RJ as your fillers to make up for the HPS. Remember that RJ heals a lot more than WG which is why glyphed is still favored.

ac90b671 · 03/18/13, 6:15 PM

For SotF you only use glyph of WG if you have t14 4p. 12sec SM, 10sec WG, tie WG to every SM. W/o t14 4p, no glyph, 15sec SM, 8 sec WG, tie every other WG to SM.

It's not really about healing done over a 30 second window. It's more about keeping WG and SM synchronized.

Qaajn · 03/19/13, 3:40 AM

Originally Posted by ac90b671

For SotF you only use glyph of WG if you have t14 4p. 12sec SM, 10sec WG, tie WG to every SM. W/o t14 4p, no glyph, 15sec SM, 8 sec WG, tie every other WG to SM.

It's not really about healing done over a 30 second window. It's more about keeping WG and SM synchronized.

Originally Posted by Kjeldorian

Napkin math from beta:

Beta Discussion of SoTF

What Kjeldorian linked actually won me over. Took me a while to get it all and convince myself, but now I'm going to get that glyph. If you want to sync a 10 second to the SM as much as possible, you can cast 1 empowered and 2 normal WG in a 30 sec window and have your next be perfectly synced with the third SM too.

If you go for the 9th breakpoint that style (Syncing every third WG with every second SM) actually give more ticks in a 30 second window then the style I proposed with no glyph (3 more) - and then you're also ignoring the effect of the 2.5 second idle...

Not that using it in this fashion result in 10% more ticks if you have the 15/9 breakpoints then syncing every (glyphed) WG with SM

• Hamlet · 03/19/13, 10:19 AM

TreeCalcs makes the assumption that if you have a 10s WG and a 15s SM, you'll use them both on cooldown (even though that only uses SotF for WG half the time). This is the best on-paper HPS and I think it's the most practical too. In reality you don't always spam out WG on cooldown, and any time you're not doing that, Glyphed WG is much, much better (in general, but especially the context of SotF). And when there is constant damage and you're spamming out heals, the fact that it's the best on-paper setup by definition means it's what you want to do.

apostolis · 03/26/13, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Kjeldorian

Please note that although it's not a full percent, a few points in mastery rating will result in the increase in your hots albeit a few small points out of a scale of thousand point ticks, there will be no wasted points when it comes to INT and Mastery.

I am abit confused now from what few people said . Have you confirmed that when you have lets say for example

7198 mastery(15%) + 10 % which is base number making it a 25% with raid buff you get another 6,25% (3000 mastery) you reach 31,25% while the tooltip of harmony says 31% you also get the 0,25% ?

Can you prove that? I know tooltips some time are missleading but its the first time i heard that you get the extra % if you have more .

So far i have been forging to get the exact harmony number with raid buff accounted so it will be interesting to know what is really happening .

• Hamlet · 03/26/13, 11:14 AM

As far as I know you've always gotten the extra %. The tooltips are just misleading in an attempt to be simple (most people seem to assume mastery rounds down unless told otherwise). I haven't confirmed it in MoP, so you can if you want--easy to do with a fixed-healing spell like Rejuv. Actually, I've probably confirmed it in effect, since anytime I checked anything against the spreadsheet it would have been off otherwise.