[Resto] Mists of Pandaria 5.3 - Page 4

Venomous · 10/03/12, 8:40 AM

Originally Posted by Kjeldorian

@Price of Progress "Hotfix"

Price of Progress change from the 15 sec ICD to a 45 sec ICD as of 10.03.12 meaning it has a ~500 mp5 still superior to the other dungeon trinkets.

1. Be interesting to see an updated Trinket 'list' - guess waiting on the mighty theorycrafters to come back with updated Heroic JP (which is crap) but what will be more interesting is the PvP 458 vs some of our pieces.

With the drop of some VP gear to Honoured, we have some decisions to make - should we get Neck/Ring first etc

2. I'll still be interested in seeing what people think of current professions - BS being a given, but for a secondary, what do we think of Tailoring?

• Hamlet · 10/03/12, 10:16 AM

The 2004 is a coincidence; the breakpoints are all different now, look more closely.

On the more interesting stuff--I can see doing a little more with Displacer Beat. It has a longer cooldown than WC, which is a big downside. I guess it has no other real downside, since shifting to Cat is automatically undone when you cast your next spell anyway. Repair costs don't really matter, but does the Vanish effect drop aggro? That could be significant. Also perhaps, in practice, it's a little quicker to react since you don't need to target someone.

For Nourish, I'm going to wait until I get more time in on TreeCalcs--in Cata it was definitely true that using Nourish was very close to doing nothing. With longer Lifebloom and Harmony times, you no longer need to use it as much to support those mechanics, so we'll have to see how the heal/mana numbers work out.

Professions--
BS gives the option of secondary stats, so even putting aside the slight gain in total strength, the flexibility is nice as always (especially given the importance of our haste caps). The same is not true for JC since its secondary stat gems are weaker.

Tailoring is no longer as impressive at it once was. For Moonkin it's fine, but no longer beats the others in terms of average Int. But for Resto, I don't see much reason to take a random proc over a static bonus. Darkglow does instead give the option to get Spirit at an okay (but not great) ratio, if you're really trying to power Spirit (but I think people are overemphasizing this too much).

I'd say if you're trying to be super min/maxy, can't deny Blacksmithing, but other than that the choice is pretty free.

Venomous · 10/03/12, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

The 2004 is a coincidence; the breakpoints are all different now, look more closely.

On the more interesting stuff--I can see doing a little more with Displacer Beat. It has a longer cooldown than WC, which is a big downside. I guess it has no other real downside, since shifting to Cat is automatically undone when you cast your next spell anyway. Repair costs don't really matter, but does the Vanish effect drop aggro? That could be significant. Also perhaps, in practice, it's a little quicker to react since you don't need to target someone.

For Nourish, I'm going to wait until I get more time in on TreeCalcs--in Cata it was definitely true that using Nourish was very close to doing nothing. With longer Lifebloom and Harmony times, you no longer need to use it as much to support those mechanics, so we'll have to see how the heal/mana numbers work out.

Professions--
BS gives the option of secondary stats, so even putting aside the slight gain in total strength, the flexibility is nice as always (especially given the importance of our haste caps). The same is not true for JC since its secondary stat gems are weaker.

Tailoring is no longer as impressive at it once was. For Moonkin it's fine, but no longer beats the others in terms of average Int. But for Resto, I don't see much reason to take a random proc over a static bonus. Darkglow does instead give the option to get Spirit at an okay (but not great) ratio, if you're really trying to power Spirit (but I think people are overemphasizing this too much).

I'd say if you're trying to be super min/maxy, can't deny Blacksmithing, but other than that the choice is pretty free.

1. We just started raiding tonight, sitting at around 8000 spirit buffed (275 Spirit Food + Spirit Flask) and in our healing channel everyone is suffering from the same thing - going oom. We got 2/6 (crappy start with Server lag etc) down, and every healing class was suffering from it - so I think Spirit isn't overemphasized as of yet - specially in the early days of 458 Rares.

I agree with you on Blacksmithing, and now you've thrown a spanner into the works about Tailoring haha - I'm lost as to what I should level. Alchemy seems nice with the extended Flask buff I guess - LW is useless for Resto (about for the Bracer), Tailoring gave us Pants enchant + the Embroidery. Engi is always good at the start of an xpac, but Helm is quickly replaced, and the Synapse triggering the 10sec lockout for On-Use Trinkets could cause issues as (by the looks of our BiS list - have a On-Use Trinket).

What makes you say Tailoring is all the sh*t hot now for Resto, isn't it the same as it was before?

2. I think with the Klaxxi Neck being dropped, and many people close to Rev with Golden Lotus - our first two purchases should be the Neck + Ring no?

Do any of the PvPs (yet to look at the nerfed 458 gear) - stand out from the crowd as honor is quite easy to get vs VP atm..?

Arentios · 10/03/12, 11:23 AM

Displacer Beast is not a vanish, it simply blinks you and adds the prowl effect. In PvP that means other players will drop target, but in PvE mobs will not drop aggro and you do not drop combat.

• Hamlet · 10/03/12, 11:29 AM

Ok so with that clarified, Displacer Beast doesn't seem all that exciting.

Spirit: yeah, my experience in Heroics might not be that informative, will see what I think after a few challenges. My logic though is that in hard content you need actual throughput too; I'm not sure that being undergeared favors Spirit as much as people think. I think it's clear to favor it as the best secondary for now, but favoring it over Int (except in the 2:1 gem situation) is probably a bit much. Trading a 2000 Int tailoring proc for a 3000 spirit one may be relevant for some people right now, but that's probably short-lived.

Alchemy once again gives you potions that are both cheap and have a health component in addition to the mana--small gameplay benefit since you can use your mana pot as a healthstone sometime during the fight.

♦ Earen · 10/03/12, 11:54 AM

I ran about 7700 spirit last night and also had significant mana issues (I did, however, run with int food/flask and may change that up to spirit food and flask tonight as we get deeper into the zone, I haven't decided yet). All healers were in the same boat mana wise for us as well, including a priest running something like 12,000 spirit. So I don't know if I just need to be smarter with spell timing/selection or if I need to boost my regen up some - I suspect it is likely a combination of both.

Of additional note, and perhaps I'm just being overly aggressive/not smart with it, but I swapped back to ToL for Feng as I just did have the ability to push through the end of the fight with SotF mana wise, even with two tides. It worked fine for me on Stone Guard, but with the longer fight and higher damage I found a fair bit of value in ToL. I'm curious if anyone else has similar experience in that regard. I am going to swap back to SotF for the Spiritbinder tonight, as with the mana gain in the spirit realm I don't see it being as big of an issue.

Payday · 10/03/12, 1:00 PM

I was running similar spirit in our 10 man, Earen, but I was using spirit flask and food. Mana was very tight, but that was more a problem with our strategies than anything. We brute forced the first boss allowing them to hit us with many full strength overloads. Only after the raid did we find out what everyone else was doing. For Feng, I thought SotF was in it's prime. Not only do you need to use your swiftmend for efflorescence, wild growth followed meaning I gained the bonus from casting what I would have even if I didn't have SotF talented. Unfortunately our un-smart tanks once again didn't figure out fight mechanics and while we could reliably get to phase 3 towards the end of the night, healer mana was always in a bad state because they didn't rotate the boss and we ended up healing through up to 8-9 stacks of debuff at times.

Having done the fights wrong it's hard to see where we're at with mana, but having gone through all of that, I think doing it right, we're actually in a fairly good spot.

Kjeldorian · 10/03/12, 1:41 PM

I must agree with Hamlet about the 1 Int: 1 Spi ratio, I ran with 8.8k spirit, but felt underpowered regarding my hots and am quite yearning for the time my gear can support the WG breakpoint.

Regarding SoTF, I believe it really shines with the 4 piece bonus during fights with burst such as Feng and Spirit Kings. Spiritbinder will be a preference based on how well your dps control the adds in the spirit realm ranging from no raid damage and only voodoo dolls to a lot of raid damage and voodoo dolls. Luck to your progression!

♦ Earen · 10/03/12, 3:25 PM

I really wanted to love SotF on Feng as I think there are optimal times in the encounter for it. I just couldn't enter phase 3 without being completely out of mana utilizing it. In looking through the logs for that particular encounter, it seems there is a pretty even mix between using SotF and ToL, and both were fairly competitive, which I suppose is the point of the new talents - but I question how much of that is due to gear limitations at moment, as with gear inflation I think SotF will strip a lot of ToL's usefulness.

magiama9 · 10/03/12, 6:05 PM

It should be noted that the symbiosis benefit has now changed for tanks. As opposed to giving tanks an extra cooldown, we now give them effects that are now greatly weakened and in some cases useless.

Symbiosis has been changed, and now grants the following abilities:
Protection warriors - Stampeding Shout
Blood death knights - Wild Mushroom: Plague
Protection paladins - Wrath
Brewmaster monks - Bear Hug

Source

♦ Earen · 10/03/12, 6:27 PM

Updated.

magiama9 · 10/03/12, 8:11 PM

Another thing that appears to have changed. The Sha of Anger is now dropping [Claw of Anger] which gives us a quest for [Crushing Treads of Anger]. Just as a note, my rep with the Shado-Pan is only friendly. I assume this is in relation to the rep requirements for valor necks, cloaks, and rings being dropped to honored.

Kjeldorian · 10/04/12, 2:33 AM

Note that though the boots are ilvl 476 and are epic, the lack of a gem socket does not make it a superior upgrade, possibly a sidegrade compared to [Airstream Treads].

Post nerf to the PvP Honor gear, the stat drops were below ~5% so some pieces are certainly decent substitutions in the event gear is not dropping from Heroics and in some cases are the better choice, once again, due to availability of gem sockets.

Payday · 10/04/12, 2:46 AM

I wouldn't say it's a side grade. For the lack of 160 primary stat or 320 secondary stat (gem slot) plus 60 int, you gain 129 stamina, 166 int, 120 spirit and 85 secondary stat. Looks like quite a large upgrade assuming you can shift the mastery around. My boots before were the heroic ones with mastery before so I had already accounted for the haste elsewhere. Pure upgrade for me.

Lazerdollarz · 10/04/12, 2:53 AM

The lack of a gem slot on the boots from Sha makes them suboptimal compared to heroic 5-man boots. Running 4pc PvP set is fantastic given that stacking debuffs appear to be the main tank swap mechanic so far. Mana is quite tight on the first 5 normal fights minus Gara'jal, running somewhere around 9k spirit. I'm not sold on using spirit flask/food yet since the itemization trade off isn't 2:1, but heroic modes might change my mind.

A couple tricks I've found: track your trinket and Innervate cooldowns (ICD or otherwise) and try to line up your Potion of Focus use, fight mechanics permitting of course, with a time where everything is on CD. This will net you extra regen ultimately since otherwise you run the risk of losing a proc/use. Second, pre-potting Int and using HotW is a major DPS cooldown and can add a non-negligible amount of damage during pulls where initial incoming damage is low.