Spirit at 2 for 1 Int is not a terrible choice.

Hamlet has never said Spirit is a bad choice but wanted to discuss the benefit of X amount of Spirit compared to X amount of Int. Specifically when it came to Flasks and food.

Also, when you were looking at those healers, were you looking at only Druids or the other healing classes/specs?

Other classes have interesting mechanics which get more benefit out of their Spirit. Rapture/PW:S for Disc Priests for example regenerates mana based on their Spirit so they get to double dip on their Spirit for their mana regen. Mana Tide Totem increases casters' Spirit by 200%. So if these raids have a Resto Shaman or more, the other healers will get more benefit from their Spirit than they would otherwise get. This is another variable to consider when gemming/flasking/eating.

I do have to admit that it is a little annoying that our personal mana regen cooldown has zero scaling with our gear. That said, different classes are different and I don't want this to become a QQ post. I just want to point out that it's important to take other factors into consideration when looking at the best way to enhance your character. Guilds that are working on Heroic content tend to be extreme MIN/MAXers. They might have found that having 2 Resto Shamans makes it very worth it to stack more Spirit and just cast more, bigger spells. You have to consider if they're a 10 or 25m guild. Different people have different styles or preferences in healing. It's hard to say unless you consider other factors of why they want to stack Spirit so heavily.

These are the things we're trying to get to the bottom of and, more specifically, Hamlet is trying to bring awareness to in the Spirit Stack debate. In the end, we might be wrong and 1 Spirit might indeed be better than 1 Int in certain circumstances but we want to see some numerical data showing that...or at least I would.

Mixology appears to be giving 480 bonus spirit for Flask of Falling Leaves. During our raid last night my flask buff was reading 1480 Spirit, while Earen's was reading 1320 Intellect.

That's good to know. Really curious they did it that way while the Flask itself is still only 1000. Still not enough to make it something I'd recommend, but should be mentioned.

Updated.

Right, I figured that much. BS I know there's just no easy fix so whatever. JC is odd because it's not even +480 secondary, it's +320.

In all these Spirit arguments I've getting into lately there's been a focus on how Spirit is handled like a primary in some ways and like a secondary in some other ways. So this Flask is kind of goofy now--if you want to use the +480 Alch bonus (which is still the inferior 1.5:1 ratio anyway) you have to use a whole Flask of only 1000 Spirit. So you're choosing between 1480 Spirit and 1320 Int anyway--the little extra is kind of a meaningless gesture.

After experiencing all of the encounters the past couple of weeks, I feel comfortable stating that we continue to have a pretty large gap in our toolkit with regards to burst AE healing in a raid environment - with WG/Rejuv continuing to be the primary way for us to counter this type of damage. I feel fairly confident that one of two things is going to need to happen to keep us on par with the other healers:

• Disregarding the fact that the implementation is terrible, mushrooms needs a buff to the healing they do; and/or
• The base cost of Rejuvenation needs to be reduced slightly.

Even making a conscious effort to use less Rejuv, taking nourish out of my rotation, and being extra vigilant with my mana, in many situations I find either come up short with healing needed or I'm running my mana bar dry trying to heal some of the damage patterns in this early tier of content with our current toolkit.

If I had to suggest a change to WM right now, even before worrying about the coefficient, it would be having the Resto version use only one Mushroom instead of 3. First of all I'm not sure that 3 adds anything--I doubt there will be many situations where you spread out 3 Mushrooms to give a tiny heal to people in different places. The 3 GCD's of setup just kills the usability of the spell. I think the niche non-rotational heal idea can work out pretty well if you can do the setup in 1 GCD whenever you have it free in between other things. As it stands, it's hard to find a time when you really want through go this whole big production, paying the time and mana cost up front.

In addition to the making the whole setup now/use later idea work, which is really the unique thing about this spell, being able to plant in one GCD lets you use it as an effective instant. Given its weakness (less healing than a WG, despite being AoE-based instead of smart), I don't see a danger here. Just another tool for a healer who's positionally aware to get a small AoE burst.

I completely agree that the mechanics of mushrooms are in desperate need of being reworked if it is ever expected to be a functional part of our toolkit. And I understand where you are coming from indicating that should be the first thing fixed. But I'm not confident that simply improving the mechanic would be enough (which I don't think you are stating, you are simply saying the placement is problem one). Even if it gets changed to one drop, I still think that if Druids are going to be able to handle AE situations effectively, they will likely need to see a buff of some sort (or the CD on bloom reduced/removed?). And while all of that is being sorted out, if it is ever sorted out, we are left in the same place we seem to find ourselves regularly: leaning on Rejuv and Wild Growth with our mana screaming as we are trying to get things done with a toolkit that falls short.

It is my hope that this time around we will receive more than a band aid fix that will have to be adjusted each tier - which should be possible with fixed mana pools.

Windsong is now fixed

Total proc
Proc Mastey
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zfdr ... ll/104510/
Proc hate
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zfdr ... ll/104423/
Proc critique
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zfdr ... ll/104509/

Windsong seems be more beneficial to Druids restos.
It is more interesting that "Jade Spirit'?

I'd like to see WM setup completely off the GCD and/or the single Mushroom idea.

I continually try to fit it into my rotation--usually when incoming damage is low or I'm (near) oom. Outside of that, it's very time intensive without a lot of payoff. As noted, it isn't a smart heal, thus it tends to waste a lot of healing on over healing while taking, depending on haste levels, 4-6 seconds to set up and execute.

On the bright side with Rejuv, once you get 2p, it's 10% cheaper to cast.

In all seriousness, though, the cost of Rejuv makes it hard to cast on multiple targets without killing your mana. Maybe that's the point of the high cost. That being said, if you're raid healing and need to pick up a few people a little more than WG and the Swiftmend Bonus can provide, you're left with very mana inefficient options.

Things are definitely precarious at these lower gear levels and without a disciplined raiding group making huge efforts to avoid taking damage, healing output vs mana consumption is on a razor's edge. Maybe we're just a little undergeared and things will ease up as our gear improves. Add to that that people are new to the fights and are taking much more damage than they would otherwise, and things look a little better overall.

Does the Wild Growth breakpoint give another tick for the Efflorescence part of Swiftmend still?