Forgive my ignorance, but can someone please advise me in leyman's terms what the algebra and graph above are showing? I understand fairly well about haste breakpoints and the value of Intellect decreasing as we approach one but is there anything else in there that I missed with those numbers?

To Karepow: When you did the stat weightings for Jade Spirit versus Windsong, did you consider that Jade Spirit gets a % scaling from Mark of the Wild (et al.)?

EDIT: Retracted my sentence about crit due to Hamlet's clarification below.

I've edited my post now, thanks for letting me know that too.

On a slightly different note, I gave HotW another few tries on Elegon last night. It actually seemed pretty effective due to being able to 'spread out' my cooldowns over a longer period and the 50% damage buff seems to sync quite nicely with the 6% stat bonus. I wasn't quite the 'meter hero' I was with NV but, as any good dps knows, it's the whole fight that matters.

I'm strongly considering popping HotW during the P2 Arcane Charges phase - I'm thinking this may very well help us get an extra wave (or two) of adds down and since Elegon is taking increasing damage until the phase ends, it may prove to be an increase in overall dps during that phase. The 45s should cover from P2 to P3 quite nicely, too. Has anyone still running HotW tried this since the nerf?

No I didn't take the % scaling from MotW into account. That actually makes it stronger though and in my opinion puts it ahead of Windsong. I actually tested it on Tuesday night when we cleared the rest of the raid on normal and I didn't really notice a difference in DPS but I'll assume that Jade Spirit will become increasingly stronger as we obtain better gear.

Considering fights with multiple enemies the guide states: "Always put both DoT's on any target that's going to live for more than a few seconds."

It feels like this depends on the number of enemies. Assuming you do not have CA ready, with > 3 enemies it might be better to simply Hurricane. For during the time you need to cast both dots on 4 targets you can do a lot of damage to all targets with Hurricane ... I don't have any numbers for this assumption though. How are you guys deciding whether to dot targets or simply Hurricane?

Furthermore, assuming you have 3 targets and dotted every target. What would be better? Simply casting Hurricane all the time or also use Shooting Stars procs in between?

If your tracker can differentiate buffs by spell ID (I don't know Raven) the individual buffs have different IDs: see Wowhead.

Looking at WC (gear may not match yours):

Solar
Eight target Hurricane is slightly higher DPET than full duration (NG+4t14) Sunfire without LS, slightly lower than Sunfire with LS3.
Both are stronger than Shooting Stars, so you'd ignore those procs.
Losing either NG or 4t14, Sunfire loses about 1/7 of its damage per GCD, so Hurricane pulls ahead.

Lunar
Astral Storm is not in WC, but is about 75% as strong as Hurricane.
Full-duration MF > Shooting Stars > 8-target AS > Sunfire
If you start AS near the end of NG, you are effectively gaining several seconds of NG (the full channel gets the haste benefit). In that case, I'd move AS ahead of shooting stars, but still behind MF.

Whoa, where'd Astral Storm go. I had it in there at some point, like around release. Better go see what I did sometime.

Interesting that Shooting Stars doesn't beat AoE, hadn't noticed that.

Tested it with training dummies, which is 4 targets:

Solar: Best dps applying SF to all targets, then Hurricane until first SF runs out, reapply
Lunar: Best dps applying MF to all targets, then AS until first MF runs out, reapply

Lunar yields comparable dps if you add Starfall to the mix (if neither Starfall nor Solar Eclipse is ready you messed up your Eclipse timings I guess). Canceling AS to trigger Shooting Stars procs is a heavy dps loss.
Solar of course still yields better aoe damage if you can plant mushrooms ahead of time, and also because after Starfall runs out, Lunar dps drops.

Note that WrathCalcs numbers are still necessary, as testing with dummies gets quite random in terms of trinket procs etc.

Hey there my fellow moonkins. I was wondering if any of you have experienced getting shapeshifting canceled when having the vial buff from scholomance on, and using incarnation? Also, does your starfall hit all targets within 40 yards, even those whom you are not in combat with?

-Pefi-

Yeah the vial buff from Scholomance forces you back into humanoide shape every time you shapeshift (which means you have to do it a second time) and if you use Incarnation, you will morph back into humanoid form, forcing you to spend a gcd to morph into moonkin again. That is annoying.

Starfall will hit any target in combat, even if you are not yourself in combat with them, meaning some packs in instances where mobs are fighting each other, or hitting target dummies (The scarlet monastery comes to mind). It will hit mobs that other people are fighting, which is obviously a pain in questing areas since you will sometime pull aggro from tagged mob that you will have to finish by yourself.
It -should- not hit targets out of combat, but I had some puzzling situations, so I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Greetings,

I just started raiding and visiting this site for the first time in years so I would like to apologize for my basic questions. I am just trying to get caught up and will try my best to be a valuable contributor in the future.

My questions are in regards to the WrathCalcs spreadsheet provided in this guide. The spreadsheet is much more complicated from what I remember during TBC days.

Question #1 - What are the parameters for this simulation? i.e. what type of encounter is it trying to mimic. Main tab shows L93 mob and the option to vary starfall targets. Changing this value from 1 to >1 does not seem to have an effect. From information on the haste tab, I am assuming that the simulation is a 10 min tank and spank with 1 bloodlust.

Question #2 - Evaluating secondary stats. On the "Main" tab. I see tables for "Gear Info from First Page" and "scaling factors (with Eclipse and NG)", which of these is everybody using to evaluate the benefit of +1 crit vs +1 haste vs #1 mastery etc.


In a theoretical tank and spank, I can see that crit seems to win out over haste and mastery at higher gear levels. However, the current encounters in Vaults are much more complicated. I feel multi-target dotting in eclipse phases might not be correctly accounted for and mastery is under-valued.