[Balance] Mists of Pandaria 5.2, Guide and Discussion [5.3 updates] - Page 12

Mehdi · 10/31/12, 1:06 PM

In the Advanced Techniques section, one of the bullet points reads:

* Retrain your Cataclysm habit of casting one Eclipsed spell before a DoT. You now want to queue your first DoT or Starfall immediately following the final post-Eclipse spell.

The two statements seem to contradict one another, so maybe I am not comprehending it properly. Namely, I'm looking for clarification on the second sentence.

The first statement says we should be casting our DoT after the first Eclipsed spell, since it says to retain our Cataclysm habit.

The second statement however seems to suggest one of the following:

* Cast DoT/Starfall after our last eclipsed spell
* Cast DoT/Starfall after our final "post-Eclipse spell"... which to me seems to imply, the last spell you cast before entering the next eclipse. Which in terms seems to suggest, we should be DoT/Starfalling'ing at the start of the new eclipse.

In both cases, it seems the statements contradict the first.

Edit: It says retrain, not refain... my apologies.

qae · 11/01/12, 3:39 AM

Well, with Symbiosis, we bring a lot of utility to the raid, especially as "soaker" (since we are quite resilient thanks to moonkin form already, and can use pretty strong mitigation skills given by symbiosis, coupled with barkskin).

We have a pretty godly burst with Incarnation + Nature's vigil, which will make us desirable in encounter when burst is required.

We can bring some nice raid healing with Heart of the wild + tranq / rejuv spamm.

And let's admit it, we are the sexiest thing on the face of Azeroth.

Zantaz · 11/01/12, 8:21 AM

With regards to HotW, I found it very strong on Stone Guard and Will of the Emperor where you're often multidotting a lot. You don't always have the luxury of being able to make full use of your burst c/ds in those fights and your DoTs being more powerful 'for free' is definitely an added perk. My sustained dps was quite a bit higher and I must say I'm warming to HotW again.

It just seems as though the activated part of HotW is not really worth worrying about now, although I did dream up a possible use on Will during a Titan Gas phase, seeing as how all melee damage is increased by 25% during that time (and being in melee opens up the possibility of an Oppurtunistic Strike or two). We haven't cleared to Will yet this week but I'm looking forward to giving it a try.

Narzbek · 11/01/12, 8:54 AM

Originally Posted by Devourer

I'm having issue with our DPS viability in raids. We're simming at the very bottom, aren't viable for AOE, multi-dotting is average, and we only have 4 rankings across all currently recorded fights. What does Balance need to be competitive (though we never are)? What type of DPS increase would it be to have Starfall refresh at every eclipse?

Someone just bolster my faith in the spec. They did so much right with the class and yet we're so far from where we should be as a DPS class.

I have to disagree with you. It seems to me that some of our damage obviously scales with better gear but for me, I am in a non hardcore guild (4/6 MSV, 10% First boss in HoF) and am at ilvl481.

I am almost always in the top 5 for dps (25man). As stated above we have insane burst and bring some nice utility to the group. We do tend to lack in fights where we have to move a lot, as well as single target fights. Just work on perfecting your rotation and continue to accumulate higher level gear and you will see improvements.

gannonjf · 11/01/12, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by Narzbek

We do tend to lack in fights where we have to move a lot, as well as single target fights.

That covers a significant portion of the current fights. This tier has felt particularly brutal for me and I've been raiding hardcore for quite a few tiers now. Tiny mistakes feel even more punishing in just trying to stay up. I've had some pretty bad luck with drops so far but that should not make up for such a large difference across my 10man. Our multi-dot is decent but turns into a cluster when tracking many tagets, our single target is lack luster at best. My largest complaint still remains our complete lack of any sort of viable dps on the move though, spamming SF/MF on the move just isn't quality game play IMO.

What I would love to see is some sort of decent movement dps and a small buff to our single target. I'm no mathmatician but having to constantly flip back and forth from haste to crit on a per fight basis doesn't seem like good game design to me.

Narzbek · 11/02/12, 8:40 AM

Originally Posted by gannonjf

That covers a significant portion of the current fights. This tier has felt particularly brutal for me and I've been raiding hardcore for quite a few tiers now. Tiny mistakes feel even more punishing in just trying to stay up. I've had some pretty bad luck with drops so far but that should not make up for such a large difference across my 10man. Our multi-dot is decent but turns into a cluster when tracking many tagets, our single target is lack luster at best. My largest complaint still remains our complete lack of any sort of viable dps on the move though, spamming SF/MF on the move just isn't quality game play IMO.

What I would love to see is some sort of decent movement dps and a small buff to our single target. I'm no mathmatician but having to constantly flip back and forth from haste to crit on a per fight basis doesn't seem like good game design to me.

I do not think it is as bad as it seems. Just going by the fight I have had experience on so far:

Stone Guard: Multi dot, little movement involved unless chained to a melee, should be pulling some good dps.
Feng: Little movement, single target but can nuke the boss almost the who fight minus a little more movement in p3.
Gara'jal: Only movement involved is going into spirit world and hey, you get a buff for it.
Spirit Kings: This fight is def a little more movement based depending on what boss is up + moving for dead boss abilities. I feel like this fight is one where we struggle the most from my experience.
Elegon: Not a ton of movement if done right. I position on the edge, jump to clear stacks, do not have to move for protectors or draw power, back up a foot to the ground for my pillar. Only movement on elegon for me is transition back to p1 both times.
Imperial Vizier: decent amount of movement left platform but can at least spam dots and procs when avoiding discs. No movement on back platform unless you need to move to reach a mc'd target. Right platform, movement only to get to proper dome. I typically just stack with my target and we don't have to move a ton. Of course the last phase it slightly more chaotic with some increased moving, but still not the worst.

I still manage to be in the top tier of dps in our guild 25m's. I typically to get murdered by our fire mage but....they are a fire mage so I am not that concerned. I earn my raid spot every week and while I would certainly welcome some more buffs to our damage, I do not see that in our future after we recently just got a buff.

Zantaz · 11/02/12, 8:49 AM

The only fight that has irritated me with its movement so far has been the Imperial Vizier, but it also provides a nice clutch use for the activated portion of HotW during Attenuation phases. That's one fight where the extra, passive Intellect definitely comes in handy.

gannonjf · 11/02/12, 6:54 PM

Originally Posted by Narzbek

I do not think it is as bad as it seems. Just going by the fight I have had experience on so far:

Stone Guard: Multi dot, little movement involved unless chained to a melee, should be pulling some good dps.
Feng: Little movement, single target but can nuke the boss almost the who fight minus a little more movement in p3.
Gara'jal: Only movement involved is going into spirit world and hey, you get a buff for it.
Spirit Kings: This fight is def a little more movement based depending on what boss is up + moving for dead boss abilities. I feel like this fight is one where we struggle the most from my experience.
Elegon: Not a ton of movement if done right. I position on the edge, jump to clear stacks, do not have to move for protectors or draw power, back up a foot to the ground for my pillar. Only movement on elegon for me is transition back to p1 both times.
Imperial Vizier: decent amount of movement left platform but can at least spam dots and procs when avoiding discs. No movement on back platform unless you need to move to reach a mc'd target. Right platform, movement only to get to proper dome. I typically just stack with my target and we don't have to move a ton. Of course the last phase it slightly more chaotic with some increased moving, but still not the worst.

I still manage to be in the top tier of dps in our guild 25m's. I typically to get murdered by our fire mage but....they are a fire mage so I am not that concerned. I earn my raid spot every week and while I would certainly welcome some more buffs to our damage, I do not see that in our future after we recently just got a buff.

The majority of the fights I'm speaking towards heroic modes. Spirit Kings most notably but others. 10s isn't like 25s, I can't just stand there and melt things.

Skyepic · 11/02/12, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by gannonjf

The majority of the fights I'm speaking towards heroic modes. Spirit Kings most notably but others. 10s isn't like 25s, I can't just stand there and melt things.

This is pretty irrelevant, regardless of the raid size our role doesn't change DPS wise. Why you think boomkins in 25m can "just stand there and melt things" and boomkins in 10m can't is completely beyond me.....

If i'm wrong please feel free to give an example or two.

gannonjf · 11/03/12, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by Skyepic

This is pretty irrelevant, regardless of the raid size our role doesn't change DPS wise. Why you think boomkins in 25m can "just stand there and melt things" and boomkins in 10m can't is completely beyond me.....

If i'm wrong please feel free to give an example or two.

Garalon/ Pheromones and Stone Guard/Tiles are the 1st two that come to mind. 25man gives much greater flexiblity as far as what classes get tasked with what, 10mans don't get that convience.

Gyges · 11/05/12, 10:05 PM

Does spellpower, crit, or haste increases affect Starfall damage after its cast? Also, I'm not always sure if its worth hitting starfall again when leaving/about to leave solar.

With prepots and early BL I've been popping Incarn, CA, Berserk and NV immediately after Starfall for the open. I'm wondering if it's still better to Starfall and Wrath into Lunar and save CA until you leave eclipse, when I would be losing the Berserk, Synapse Springs, trink and pot stacking.

Also, I have been strictly starting and ending the CA with a dot and nothing but Moonfire and SS in between. Does Starfall belong in there when the first one falls off or should i continue popping it immediately after CA ends (single target).

• Hamlet · 11/06/12, 12:36 PM

Starfall does change when your stats change partway through.

Why would you pop CA right away? Since you can start with Eclipse anyway, all CA does is save you one GCD to get your double-DoT up, otherwise the damage is no better than Eclipse damage. Pop it when you leave Eclipse--you'll still have Incarn and NV going.

Yeah, always start and end CA with a DoT. You do want to Starfall in there though. You should have used it before CA; use it again in CA as soon as the previous one is off.

Basically to open fight:
0) AC to 75 Lunar energy.
1) Starfall 1-2s before pull, use pre-pot during starfall GCD, and start casting Wrath, triggering Lunar when it finishes.
2) Open Lunar by casting Sunfire, Incarnation, Moonfire, Starsurge.
3) Starfire 4 times to end Lunar, casting Starfall as soon as the previous one falls off (after the first SF I think).
4) As you're casting the last Starfire, queue your CA/Moonfire macro.
5) Starfire your way through CA, casting Starfall yet again as soon as it drops.
6) When <1 Starfire cast is left in either CA or Incarn, refresh Moonfire again.
7) Proceed as normal.

You could probably make a castsequence to open fights that goes:
Starfall, Wrath, Sunfire, Incarnation, Moonfire, Starsurge, Starfire, Starfall, Starfire, Starfire, Starfire, Celestial Alignment, Moonfire, Starfire, Starfall.

Clauddvon · 11/06/12, 3:30 PM

Energized Wild Jade is missing from the Drop Down List in this guide. I have this in my Chest piece, but it's not listed in the Excel document (main page).

Thanks,
Clauddvon

♦ Tecton · 11/06/12, 4:10 PM

Originally Posted by Clauddvon

Energized Wild Jade is missing from the Drop Down List in this guide. I have this in my Chest piece, but it's not listed in the Excel document (main page).

Thanks,
Clauddvon

Download the latest version from the Wrathcalcs thread.

Clauddvon · 11/06/12, 4:32 PM

Originally Posted by Tecton

Download the latest version from the Wrathcalcs thread.

Have a link for the most updated one?

I found the post by Hamlet, below:

The most current version of the sheet always lives here:
http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t110353-...ing_WrathCalcs

...but clicking that link takes me right back to the main Balance Druid Wrathcalcs link/workbook which is the same one I've already downloaded.

Thanks,