[Balance] Mists of Pandaria 5.2, Guide and Discussion [5.3 updates] - Page 13

Treetard · 11/14/12, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Starfall does change when your stats change partway through.

Why would you pop CA right away? Since you can start with Eclipse anyway, all CA does is save you one GCD to get your double-DoT up, otherwise the damage is no better than Eclipse damage. Pop it when you leave Eclipse--you'll still have Incarn and NV going.

Yeah, always start and end CA with a DoT. You do want to Starfall in there though. You should have used it before CA; use it again in CA as soon as the previous one is off.

Basically to open fight:
0) AC to 75 Lunar energy.
1) Starfall 1-2s before pull, use pre-pot during starfall GCD, and start casting Wrath, triggering Lunar when it finishes.
2) Open Lunar by casting Sunfire, Incarnation, Moonfire, Starsurge.
3) Starfire 4 times to end Lunar, casting Starfall as soon as the previous one falls off (after the first SF I think).
4) As you're casting the last Starfire, queue your CA/Moonfire macro.
5) Starfire your way through CA, casting Starfall yet again as soon as it drops.
6) When <1 Starfire cast is left in either CA or Incarn, refresh Moonfire again.
7) Proceed as normal.

You could probably make a castsequence to open fights that goes:
Starfall, Wrath, Sunfire, Incarnation, Moonfire, Starsurge, Starfire, Starfall, Starfire, Starfire, Starfire, Celestial Alignment, Moonfire, Starfire, Starfall.

I have a question about this. I try to use this opening as much as possible but I find that I rip threat from tanks instantly with this unless I use Mirror Image (and even then I pull threat the second Mirror Image wears off about half the time). On fights where I don't take Mirror Image it's pretty much a disaster. My tanks are a few ilvls ahead of where I am gear-wise (I'm at 484, they're about 487 iirc).

That being said I find a noticeable decrease in my DPS if I don't open the fight that way. So, either I optimize my DPS and have a high chance of pulling threat and potentially dying (or on some fights potentially wiping the entire attempt) or I hold off for about 10 seconds at the start and lose 5-10% DPS.

Not really sure what to do because it's more prevalent on certain fights and seems to be somewhat random. My tank is a DK if that matters - not sure if he needs a crit string to pull initial threat or what but I'm confident he's doing what he can. I've ripped threat from many DK tanks in LFR as well, but never a Pally/Druid/War tank which leads me to believe it's just the class.

I'm pretty OCD about doing the best I can so it really pains me to see my DPS lower than it should be... but I don't know what else to do other than holding off a bit.

Zantaz · 11/14/12, 12:31 PM

I have the same threat issue you describe but I have found that popping Mirror Images after you cast your second Starfall works nicely - at that point, you should be nearing your tank's threat, you pop MI and your threat is wiped (nor can you gain any more threat for the duration of MI).

Basically:

Pull timer -> Starfall -> Enter Lunar Eclipse -> DoTs -> Starsurge -> Starfire -> Starfall -> MI -> Continue as normal

If this doesn't work then it would honestly seem to be an issue with your tanks generating threat.

Sepe · 11/14/12, 5:45 PM

I see that there is a consensus on using DoC with 4pc. However, would that change on fights with heavy multi-target dotting? (ie: will of the emperors)

Tuscarora · 11/15/12, 7:15 PM

Originally Posted by Sepe

I see that there is a consensus on using DoC with 4pc. However, would that change on fights with heavy multi-target dotting? (ie: will of the emperors)

DoC increases the damage done by your next 2 Moonfire/Sunfire casts by 50%, so the extra damage is equivalent to one full-length DoT at the cost of a Healing Touch cast. Since the cast time of a Healing Touch is greater than 1 GCD then a Healing Touch is lower DPET than just casting a DoT on a different target so DoC doesn't seem attractive when you are multi-dotting.

Sepe · 11/16/12, 3:20 AM

Yeah DoC seems pretty unfavorable on a lot of encounters because of multi-dotting or movement.

footstomp · 11/18/12, 9:01 PM

A fellow guildy pointed this out, and I may be going over old ground here. I tried to search for it but got nothing relavent and it is not in the guide that I can see.

I noticed that my master total was 21.44 percent. However the tooltip states that I am only getting 21% it does not go to 22 percent till I go over 22 percent. Does this mean I am wasting .44 percent mastery, and therefore .44% damage increase to spells while in eclipse. I looked at other classes and I don't see this limitations. Is this an error in the tool tip? Why not just increase it by 21.44 percent. Also if this is true then is there a point where I would want mastery to get to the next percent? Thanks for your help I find this forum very helpful.

Sepe · 11/19/12, 1:58 AM

It's just a tooltip error. You're getting the full mastery benefit in between full percents. This was fixed back in Firelands I believe?

footstomp · 11/19/12, 1:40 PM

That is really odd, they have had this tool tip error in place since firelands and never corrected it. I know some druids in progression guilds that still think this is the case. They should make that more apparent. Thanks for the reply.

• Hamlet · 11/19/12, 1:57 PM

I remember finding at one point in Cata that mastery actually did stairstep, and then later that it didn't (don't remember if this was in Firelands). Always worth checking; I think it was unintentional behavior that it ever did. It's easy to check--use a spell with no variance (such as a DoT tick) and an amount of mastery that's not an integral %, and just compare your tick to the WC tick (have to know a little about where to look in WC to include the right buffs and things but it's not that hard).

footstomp · 11/19/12, 2:02 PM

Thanks for the reply. I will try that. However if it does work as the tooltip suggests it would mean another breakpoint to worry about. I noticed my mage friends tool tip was correctly showing the partial percentages. but ours does not. It would be alot of mastery to lose.

Stommped · 11/24/12, 6:47 PM

What will people be upgrading first with VP? Light of the Cosmos and Darkmoon trinket seem like good choices to start.

Also with regards to 4pc and DoC, have you tried using Healing Touch before every dot in multi target situations? How do you know where to draw the line in terms of too many targets? i.e. casting this many Healing Touches would slow down your rotation too much and negatively impact your DPS.

Latas · 11/24/12, 7:24 PM

Something tells me the first item to always upgrade would be your weapon.

♦ Tecton · 11/24/12, 7:32 PM

Yeah, I'd be surprised if upgrading weapons first wouldn't always be the best option. It depends if trinket procs are improved if it's worth doing those quickly too.

Stommped · 11/24/12, 11:45 PM

Well you would think you would want to use your first upgrades on BiS items. Nobody has the 516 dagger, which is bis, so I can't really see weapon being the best choice right now, in terms of VP (I guess if you had a heroic Sha touched weapon + legendary gem it would be ok).

Ektoplasme · 11/26/12, 5:46 AM

According to Item level - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft Head, Chest, Legs, 2H Weapon have the highest slot modifier of 1.00 (1H weapon has a lower modifier). So the most efficient way to use your VP will be to upgrade the highest ilevel item between Head, Chest, Legs, 2H Weapon. The idea is to upgrade the item you are least likely to replace.

If you know you will replace soon these 4 items, then the next slots are Shoulder, Hands, Waist, Feet with a slot modifier of 0.75.