 |
12/05/12, 12:05 PM
|
#211
|
|
Great Tiger
Night Elf Druid
Echo Isles
|
200 DPS is less than 1%, and that is measured on a Patchwerk fight. If you're doing a fight with movement or a few targets, I expect (but haven't crunched the numbers) Crit to more than make up that difference.
If you have a very large number (more than six or so) of-long-lived targets (so all you do is MF span, without ever clipping a DoT), Haste might pull ahead because in that situation you might not bother to cast even instant SS.
As a quick test to simulate a two-target fight, I took Wrathcalcs, doubled MF cast time and damage, doubled SS procs, and set Starfall targets >1. Stat value for Crit went from 20% more than Haste to 50% more than haste
|
|
|
|
|
|
12/05/12, 12:37 PM
|
#212
|
|
<Druid Trainer>
|
Yeah--as I said on launch day after waffling about haste and crit a lot, I'd wait to update OP until we had a clearer idea. I think people's experience is favoring crit, and the explanation we've been discussing that crit works better in practical situations is probably right, although would be good to analyze a bit more.
|
|
|
|
|
12/05/12, 5:52 PM
|
#213
|
|
Glass Joe
Troll Druid
Nordrassil (EU)
|
I've been searching pages about any information about the new trinket from Dominance Offensive and couldn't find anything so I guess I'll just ask.
I know its no in our BiS list, but is it better then Essence of Terror 496 ilvl. The reason for my asking is, isn't passive haste and proc int better then passive int and proc haste?
Also the idea of getting Essence of Terror heroic is not an option for me, not yet at least and its gonna take a while, so would like some info, if anyone knows, would the new trinket be better then Darkmoon one and better then Essence of Terror normal version?
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
12/06/12, 10:52 AM
|
#214
|
|
Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
|
What is best fully moving DPS option?
Ofc its best to be in eclipse, does it matter which? (I would imagine being in lunar is better because of SS procs and if starfall is available)
Don’t ask why, but I find myself many times in prolonged movement (assume more than 10 seconds), don’t want to give examples why b/c I don’t want this to be about how to avoid it – just assume there is long amount of CONSTANT movement. Not enough time for a wrath even.
What is better? (ofc casting SS when procs)
a) cast non-E dot, spam E-dot, refresh non-E dot when runs out.
b) cast E-dot, spam non-E-dot, refresh E dot when runs out.
c) alternating each cast which dot – (extra tick dmg, and fishing for more SS procs)
d) some other option – please elaborate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
12/06/12, 11:04 AM
|
#215
|
|
<Druid Trainer>
|
SS procs don't affect it either way. Starfall in theory favors Lunar but since you usually use it right when you start Lunar it probably doesn't come up much while running around.
Dots tick continuously regardless of whether you spam them. So if you're spamming DoT's, spam the Eclipsed one once both are ticking.
In the old days we'd drop 3 Wild Mushroom while moving a lot since you could pop them during the next Solar. Right now though, an Eclipsed Moonfire hit with 3 LS stacks is much better than a Wild Mushroom, so I wouldn't bother.
|
|
|
|
|
12/06/12, 2:31 PM
|
#216
|
|
Piston Honda
|
I've been thinking of reassessing the H BiS list without Dream of Cenarius enabled, and I know that by changing DoC out for either NV or HotW results in a change of BiS items/gemming/reforging.
My reasoning: DoC is really only good on a fight with minimal movement and not too many targets for dotting. I'm not sure if DoC is still better than the other two on a fight like Stone Guard with two dot targets, or if it only keeps its spot at first in a single-target scenario. Personally, I don't like the talent and would much rather have a bigger burst phase or a don't-have-to-think-about-anything passive damage increase. For fights like Mel'jarak, Empress and Garajal (downstairs), DoC is partially useless at points in the fights, which I would assume means it drops down in value significantly.
Nature's Vigil typically pulls ahead of both alternatives when you can align it with a stacking damage buff, and the clear example of this is Elegon. This also applies to Mel'jarak (33% debuff every time a set of adds die), and Un'sok (100% damage increase after person in suit uses their self-interrupt, as well as stacking debuff on Monstrosity or Un'sok P3). Heart of the Wild, according to WrathCalcs, is ahead of NV when fights do not include a damage increase, and I'm not sure if WrathCalcs assumes NV will be in conjunction with heroism/potions in the best possible case. Thus, I'm not sure HotW is a better alternative to NV for fights without a damage multiplier.
I bring all this up because I've been debating whether or not to redo the H BiS list with NV or HotW as the baseline talent. This stems from the (heated) discussion of haste BP vs. full crit. I went and made a really quick and rushed full crit build to compare to my 8089 haste breakpoint set, and found these results:
Talent: Haste | Crit
DoC: 109980.24 | 109661.11
HotW: 107924.62 | 108304.28
NV: 107155.56 | 107583.93
This essentially means, were we to scrap using DoC as the baseline comparison talent, a full crit build with stat priority int > hit > crit > haste > mastery would do more single-target damage than a 8089 haste breakpoint build. Multi-target fights will obviously prefer crit, as per every haste/crit discussion ever. It also means we would need to switch pants and hat in terms of off-piece.
What do you guys think? I don't mind fiddling with WrathCalcs a bit more to optimise the full crit build a bit better, but in light of this I'm more inclined to base the BiS list (and ultimately the stat priority) around ignoring the 8089 breakpoint.
Edit: I realise these numbers could be affected by Hamlet's recent change to haste calculations, so I'm not sure if these results are accurate or not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
12/06/12, 6:14 PM
|
#217
|
|
Von Kaiser
Worgen Druid
Frostmane (EU)
|
When you say full crit, do you mean no 5273 breakpoint either? Literally regem and reforge everything to crit...?
|
|
|
|
|
|
12/06/12, 6:42 PM
|
#218
|
|
Piston Honda
|
Originally Posted by Zantaz
When you say full crit, do you mean no 5273 breakpoint either? Literally regem and reforge everything to crit...?
|
Well the 5273 breakpoint only applies when you don't have 4-pc T14, and in a BiS scenario you would, so the breakpoint below 8089 is 3706.
That being said, I found haste > mastery anyway, so once every piece had as much crit as it could take, spirit was being reforged to haste, and I ended up at around 6k or so. So again, ignoring the 8089 breakpoint results in something like 4% crit.
But yes, all gems would feature crit, and any piece that doesn't already have crit would get it first from mastery (if available) then spr/haste, whichever results in more crit. |
|
|
|
|
|
12/06/12, 6:54 PM
|
#219
|
|
Von Kaiser
Worgen Druid
Frostmane (EU)
|
Hmm, I didn't realise that part about the 4pc changing the breakpoint (although I should have, really). I'm lucky enough to have mine so I have some reforging to do methinks. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
|
|
|
|
|
|
12/07/12, 9:29 AM
|
#221
|
|
Piston Honda
Worgen Druid
Bronzebeard (EU)
|
Originally Posted by Lhokz
|
A wild guess would be that crit+haste on an item is valued more in BiS gear when getting hit cap should be a none issue. |
|
|
|
|
|
12/07/12, 11:13 AM
|
#222
|
|
Piston Honda
|
Originally Posted by Lilija
A wild guess would be that crit+haste on an item is valued more in BiS gear when getting hit cap should be a none issue.
|
That's correct, we have too much hit as it is, and mastery is our worst stat. Minimising mastery is best for when getting to the 8089 breakpoint, but I'll re-evaluate that for a crit-based BiS. |
|
|
|
|
|
12/07/12, 11:48 AM
|
#223
|
|
<Druid Trainer>
|
Remember that, similarly to the discussions we have about Nature's Vigil, the value of mastery comes up a bit in practical play since we have Eclipse for various timer activations and important parts of encounters.
|
|
|
|
|
12/07/12, 4:31 PM
|
#225
|
|
Piston Honda
|
Originally Posted by Lhokz
|
I'm going to go through and re-do the BiS list with the pants in mind and a crit-based method. I was fiddling around with the pants earlier yesterday and they seemed to pull ahead of the off-piece hat by a fair amount (~300 DPS). I'll update this post once I've got a general idea of the changes.
Also Hamlet: I know you just recently changed the averaging of haste to just the change in 1 point of haste, do you foresee any issues with WrathCalcs spitting out incorrect numbers for haste? I'd assume not, but I just want to confirm that before I end up wasting time fiddling with sets if that's the case. |
|
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads
