[Balance] Mists of Pandaria 5.2, Guide and Discussion [5.3 updates] - Page 16

• Hamlet · 12/07/12, 5:03 PM

I'd be careful with the stat weight for haste right now, it was doing some odd things at least in the gear setup in the last uploaded version. If you actually swap items around to try to make the DPS output the best though, that should be fine.

Slippykins · 12/07/12, 7:09 PM

Alright, I've gone and updated the list over at MMO-Champ. Let me know if I made any sort of gross error so I don't look like a complete fool. D:

[Balance] T14H BiS list - Page 6

Samso · 12/11/12, 2:03 AM

Heya if you say that NV is underrated on paper, because in real situations you can use it with other things together, wouldnt that also count for all other on use things like engeneering tinkers or the activation trinkets?

in real situations, you often can delay trinkets for heroism, a new eclipse, bursting adds, or just a phase where you can stand still, wouldnt that be better than having a random benefit that procs outside of those situations in most cases?

♦ Tecton · 12/11/12, 3:10 AM

Originally Posted by Samso

Heya if you say that NV is underrated on paper, because in real situations you can use it with other things together, wouldnt that also count for all other on use things like engeneering tinkers or the activation trinkets?

in real situations, you often can delay trinkets for heroism, a new eclipse, bursting adds, or just a phase where you can stand still, wouldnt that be better than having a random benefit that procs outside of those situations in most cases?

Normally, yes. For example, Engineering provides the same benefit as other profs if you average it out, but being able to get the whole benefit over a shorter time is much more useful for real world DPS because of fight mechanics/other cooldowns/etc as long as you are using it well.

fountaiin · 12/12/12, 4:52 AM

Considering the new VP upgrade system, will helm still be our best off-piece, since it allowed us to reach the 8089 cap. I'll probably make some attempt to math everything out with double-vp upgrades in the future, but if anyone has looked at it recently that would save me a lot of time. Perhaps legs or gloves since tier and Blade-Lord helms have lots of crit, but our tier legs/gloves don't.

Slippykins · 12/13/12, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by fountaiin

Considering the new VP upgrade system, will helm still be our best off-piece, since it allowed us to reach the 8089 cap. I'll probably make some attempt to math everything out with double-vp upgrades in the future, but if anyone has looked at it recently that would save me a lot of time. Perhaps legs or gloves since tier and Blade-Lord helms have lots of crit, but our tier legs/gloves don't.

I went over the numbers for reaching the haste breakpoint or going full crit, with all pieces upgraded twice, over at mmo-champ recently:

[Balance] T14H BiS list - Page 7

I opted to test the four scenarios that should result in the highest numbers, namely haste BP and full crit with hat off-piece, as well as haste BP and full crit with pants off-piece with all pieces upgraded twice. Both builds with the pants as off-piece resulted in significantly higher numbers, so it's safe to assume pants as non-tier wont change. In fact, the numbers were so close for haste BP vs. full crit that, due to human error and rounding issues, it's impossible to tell which is better. Thus, I suggested a full crit build since it will be better with more than 1 target.

Erdluf · 12/13/12, 3:33 PM

If I'm not in Ecilpse, but have enough targets, I should use Astral Communion to get to Eclipse as quickly as possible. The damage I lost (using AC instead of a non-Eclipsed nuke) will be made up by starting multi-dotting and/or AoE earlier.

Has anyone analyzed how many targets you need to make this worthwhile?

I'm sure that for the last 20 energy to reach Solar, four targets is plenty (1s AC + 1s Eclipsed Hurricane(4) > ~2s non-Eclipse SF). I suspect the answer is that usually three targets is enough, but I haven't been able to find a rigorous analysis.

• Hamlet · 12/18/12, 3:34 PM

1) That's a good problem to get on the list of stuff to think about. Do need at least some good rule of thumb for AC in combat when you stuck outside Eclipse at what should be a high-DPS opportunity.

2) Note for guide/sheet updates--bracer enchant is 180 Int now, so LW is 320 like all other profs.

Clingy · 12/20/12, 6:56 PM

I was wondering how early everyone was expecting a nerf to SS's proc rate, perhaps as early as 5.2?

Lazerdollarz · 12/20/12, 8:01 PM

Originally Posted by Clingy

I was wondering how early everyone was expecting a nerf to SS's proc rate, perhaps as early as 5.2?

What are you basing this on? I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere official.

Epsil · 12/22/12, 5:22 AM

Hello guys,

My guild is now on the Sha of Fear heroic encounter and we have 2 moonkins which need your help. Can you please help us to evaluate the haste breakpoints with Lei's Hope - Spell - World of Warcraft buff on the Dread Expanse phase.

Thanks in advance!

Fleuria · 12/22/12, 5:42 AM

Originally Posted by Epsil

Hello guys,

My guild is now on the Sha of Fear heroic encounter and we have 2 moonkins which need your help. Can you please help us to evaluate the haste breakpoints with Lei's Hope - Spell - World of Warcraft buff on the Dread Expanse phase.

Thanks in advance!

It's only for the first phase of the fight which is 33% the last phase you lose leis hope, so your best just going with your standard break points, tip though last phase if you save ur cds for the last phase after u used them once in the first phase u can really quickly press ca and incarnation and they will reset a few seconds later but nv for some reason doesn't

Zantaz · 12/22/12, 6:57 PM

Any initial thoughts on the proposed changes to NV and SotF in 5.2?

At a quick glance, it appears to be an attempt to decrease burst damage and increase sustained dps but my maths is a little foggy just lately.

Slippykins · 12/23/12, 4:30 AM

Originally Posted by Zantaz

Any initial thoughts on the proposed changes to NV and SotF in 5.2?

At a quick glance, it appears to be an attempt to decrease burst damage and increase sustained dps but my maths is a little foggy just lately.

I made a post on the official forums about the NV change, not sure if my maths are 100% correct, but it shows a slight decrease in overall DPS (~1% single-target). I'm not sure if in a multi-target situation the DPS difference would be multiplied by the number of the targets, or stay the same. Damage modifying fights like Elegon will extenuate the effects of the nerf.

natures vigil being changed. - Forums - World of Warcraft

Epsil · 12/26/12, 2:22 AM

Originally Posted by Fleuria

It's only for the first phase of the fight which is 33% the last phase you lose leis hope, so your best just going with your standard break points, tip though last phase if you save ur cds for the last phase after u used them once in the first phase u can really quickly press ca and incarnation and they will reset a few seconds later but nv for some reason doesn't

Fleuria, thx, the tip is really usefull. Is it a common feature of that fight and can be used by other classes or just moonkin related stuff? Did somebody check it, for example, with double horoism/bloodlust on the second phase?