[Balance] Mists of Pandaria 5.2, Guide and Discussion [5.3 updates] - Page 22

thedopefishlives · 02/13/13, 7:49 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Meta's going to proc over once per minute then, with all the haste we have from NG and otherwise. Should be over 5% mean haste. Very strong for us.

Works out to be over 5.5% of our DPS, and almost triple the value of the Burning Primal.

Edit: On second thought, that is if it was raw PPM. Using Real PPM, it turns out to be more like 3.5% DPS and double the value of the Burning Primal.

Latas · 02/13/13, 8:24 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Meta's going to proc over once per minute then, with all the haste we have from NG and otherwise. Should be over 5% mean haste. Very strong for us.

Wouldn't .84 realPPM be less than once a minute? .84 would seem like roughly once every 70 seconds.

• Hamlet · 02/13/13, 8:40 PM

It's 0.84 before haste. We have 15% near-constant haste from NG, as as well as the usual gear/buffs and whatever procs you may already have. 40-45% mean haste shouldn't be atypical at all.

thedopefishlives · 02/13/13, 9:06 PM

I'm looking at the Real PPM proc rates for the trinkets, and for some reason, they all seem rather underwhelming. Underwhelming as in, if my math is correct (and it rarely is), they seem to be coming out below some of the heroic-mode trinkets from the current tier. Could it be that all of the procs being straight Intellect lessens their power for us as compared to nice tasty Haste/Crit procs?

fountaiin · 02/14/13, 1:44 AM

Has anyone done the math on the 522 Rep trinket vs 517 Essence of Terror?

Also I don't see us getting the crit trinket outside of coins any time soon. Even though we favor crit more than anyone else, other classes have snapshot crit ratings with their dots, meaning shadow-priests with two-piece will only have to dot once per fight. Obviously broken.

It will be really good for affliction too with all of their overwhelming haste procs; soul burning Dark Soul, Berserking, lusted, meta gemmed dots with 100% crit is going to be outrageous.

Lazerdollarz · 02/14/13, 4:41 AM

iirc DoT ticks update dynamically with your crit chance. Spriests aren't going to get a 6 minute set of DoTs with 100% crit chance no matter what anyone is conjecturing.

thedopefishlives · 02/14/13, 8:34 AM

Originally Posted by Lazerdollarz

iirc DoT ticks update dynamically with your crit chance. Spriests aren't going to get a 6 minute set of DoTs with 100% crit chance no matter what anyone is conjecturing.

The only stats that are set at the time of DoT cast are haste and damage multipliers. Crit, mastery, and spell power are all dynamic. Also, I believe the spell damage taken debuff might apply dynamically.

fountaiin · 02/14/13, 8:34 AM

Originally Posted by Lazerdollarz

iirc DoT ticks update dynamically with your crit chance. Spriests aren't going to get a 6 minute set of DoTs with 100% crit chance no matter what anyone is conjecturing.

Nope. For whatever reason the dynamic scaling doesn't apply to shadow-priests or warlocks, and so when they put up 100% crit VT/SWP, they will spawn apparitions which extend their dots forever because of their 2-piece. Hopefully this gets nerfed or every top guild will be stacking shadow-priests instead of moonkins, lol.

Erdluf · 02/14/13, 11:04 AM

We know crit was dynamic for us with 4t11. I can't remember (and haven't been able to find) any testing since then. Obviously the new meta will make it easy to test again.

Very short and strong non-dynamic procs are a pain for Balance. With cooldowns, our DoTs can tick for about three times their non-cooldown, non-Eclipse value. That makes clipping an existing DoT in order to benefit from some new temporary buff a very "chancy" proposition.

• Hamlet · 02/14/13, 11:05 AM

The crit updating was never really figured out for certain--the one case that was easy to test was Balance Tier 11 4-piece (was +99% crit at the time, which definitely did update dynamically). So either crit always updates dynamically, or they had the tech to do something unique for that set bonus (in which case I wonder why they wouldn't use it elsewhere). Maybe the Shadow Priest case proves it's the latter, but that should probably be changed either way.

fountaiin · 02/14/13, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Erdluf

We know crit was dynamic for us with 4t11. I can't remember (and haven't been able to find) any testing since then. Obviously the new meta will make it easy to test again.

Very short and strong non-dynamic procs are a pain for Balance. With cooldowns, our DoTs can tick for about three times their non-cooldown, non-Eclipse value. That makes clipping an existing DoT in order to benefit from some new temporary buff a very "chancy" proposition.

It's definitely still dynamic. You can get a 100% crit buff on the Luckydo items in Kun'Lai and test it.

Erdluf · 02/14/13, 12:23 PM

Beaten by fountaiin

Confirm crit is still dynamic. Naked I have a 2.72% crit-chance before suppression. In 98 ticks against a raider's target dummy, I get zero crits (WC says 3% crit suppression)

If I use naked/MF/Shadowmeld/Gear up, I get 4 crits out of 21 ticks

• Hamlet · 02/14/13, 12:25 PM

Ok, good to know. I wonder what's going on with Shadow Priests then. Anyone have a link to a good discussion of that?

Erdluf · 02/14/13, 1:04 PM

It looks like it may be spell-specific. Moonfire (Balance & Resto) and Sunfire seem to be updating crit dynamically. Rejuv (Balance and Resto) and Lifebloom seem to not be dynamic (although when Lifebloom is extended with Regrowth, it does pick up the new crit value).

These were just gear-swapping tests (not 100% crit tests), and I only ran about 40 ticks of each, so somebody may want to confirm. I wouldn't be surprised if Moonfire/Sunfire got special handling specifically for 4t11, and it was never changed back.

• Hamlet · 02/14/13, 1:32 PM

Hmm. You tested Rejuv and Lifebloom in the same way just now?