[Balance] Mists of Pandaria 5.2, Guide and Discussion [5.3 updates] - Page 23

Erdluf · 02/14/13, 2:08 PM

Yes, except that you don't need to drop combat to switch gear for heals.

Edit: Just did the Luckdo test for Rejuv as Balance.

CritLuckyDo - Rejuv - Cancel Crit buff - Got four four crit ticks.
Rejuv - CritLuckyDo - Got four non-crit ticks.

• Hamlet · 02/15/13, 10:39 AM

GC posted that they will try to put the Lei Shen trinket on Flaskataur, so hopefully we'll be able to test it specifically before long. Or least, have other classes test it more so we can figure out some consistency in all this.

Slippykins · 02/15/13, 10:36 PM

[Balance] T15H BiS List

I updated the BiS list with what I could. Since we're still unsure on how all the trinkets are working, and as far as I know they aren't all fully implemented in WrathCalcs, I've left them alone for the time being.

If anyone has any sort of critique or addition for it, please don't hesitate to post either here or on the thread itself. I only took about 2-3 hours putting this list together, so it's in no way perfect.

fountaiin · 02/16/13, 12:26 AM

I tweeted GC 4 times complaining about the 100% crit trinket and shadow-priests yesterday, and today they fixed it for them, and also made our dots act snap-shot. You are welcome my friends :-).

It will undoubtedly be BIS, and it will probably get nerfed soon too. It's also going to break arena for us, and will make this a go-to moonkin trinket before any other class.

gannonjf · 02/16/13, 2:42 AM

Originally Posted by fountaiin

I tweeted GC 4 times complaining about the 100% crit trinket and shadow-priests yesterday, and today they fixed it for them, and also made our dots act snap-shot. You are welcome my friends :-).

It will undoubtedly be BIS, and it will probably get nerfed soon too. It's also going to break arena for us, and will make this a go-to moonkin trinket before any other class.

Mind explaining why in terms that I can relate to my guild once it drops? I'm still playing catch up on the 5.2 stuff.

Eloraqz · 02/16/13, 6:13 AM

@Slippykins
i would change a few things in your bis list
Back -> Deadly Glare Cape (Haste/Crit/Socket) (Durumu) (Can be thunderforged too)
Ring -> Durumu's Captive Eyeball (Spirit, Crit, Socket) (Durumu) (Durumu) (Can be thunderforged too)
Ring -> Ro'shk's Remembrance (Mastery, Crit, Socket) (Iron Qon) (Durumu) (Can be thunderforged too)
Weapon -> Ritual Dagger of the Mind's Eye (Spirit, Crit, Socket) (Durumu) (Because i couldnt find Nadagasts on any boss)
Offhand -> Lei-SHen's Orb of Command (Haste, Crit, Socket) (Lei-Shen)

Trinkets -> unsure like you but Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen seems like a must have now

♦ Tecton · 02/16/13, 7:16 AM

Does anyone have any more info on Thunderforged stuff than what appears on the WoWhead item list?

Xavy · 02/16/13, 9:45 AM

Originally Posted by fountaiin

I tweeted GC 4 times complaining about the 100% crit trinket and shadow-priests yesterday, and today they fixed it for them, and also made our dots act snap-shot. You are welcome my friends :-).

It will undoubtedly be BIS, and it will probably get nerfed soon too. It's also going to break arena for us, and will make this a go-to moonkin trinket before any other class.

How about ask them about "Soul of the forest" talent?
they buffed it to 40 energy, but the buff affect only one side of the eclipse.
Right now 20 energy boost: means u have to cast 2 starfire (or 1starfire + 1 ss) to get Solar. (assuming 0 energy)
with 5.2 buff: u get 40 energy boost: means u still have to cast 2 starfire (or 1starfire + 1 ss) to get Solar. (assuming 0 energy)

the buff to the talent, reduce 1 wrath cast to Lunar. if they fix solar side, pushing to 10k haste (not sure the exact number for hastebreakpoint) it will be the best choice.

• Hamlet · 02/16/13, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by fountaiin

I tweeted GC 4 times complaining about the 100% crit trinket and shadow-priests yesterday, and today they fixed it for them, and also made our dots act snap-shot. You are welcome my friends :-).

It will undoubtedly be BIS, and it will probably get nerfed soon too. It's also going to break arena for us, and will make this a go-to moonkin trinket before any other class.

Ref this: PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues, Part II - Forums - World of Warcraft

Yeah, that is curious. So we were right, the confusion was actually due to the fact that crits did persist for Shadow DoTs and not Balance DoTs. Somehow it's just funny though, that the result is that he gives it to Balance and takes it away from Shadow :P (the rationale is of course correct, that it was far more overpowered for Shadow).

Mathing this out will be messy, but when I have a chance I'll try to at least do an estimate to confirm the likely intuition that is going to a pretty overbudget trinket for Balance.

Reddayspring · 02/16/13, 1:44 PM

Regardless of whether it ends up over (likely) or underbudget. The utility of a massive movement proc is going to be amazing.

• Hamlet · 02/16/13, 1:52 PM

Well, "movement-enabling" and "random proc" don't really synergize particularly well. Going to be extremely convenient when it works out though.

e: Remember, this trinket might be somewhat in the Re-Origination vein, whereby its budget value (in terms of stat point equivalence) is quite low, and it really only exists to be "abused." It only lasts for 4 seconds, and is 0.5 RPPM. All the better for us if it does turn out to be a top trinket though, since others might not be likely to want it.

Reddayspring · 02/16/13, 5:22 PM

4s to put up 100% crit dots, but they last the full duration + ss extensions so it's a lot long duration. Think depending on how the RPPM stuff is effected by the haste meta too we could have a really enjoyable tier.

Slippykins · 02/16/13, 6:28 PM

Hey Hamlet, do you think this is an accurate approximation of the gains of the Unerring trinket?

[Balance] T15H BiS List - Page 2

I just solved some equations, nothing too extravagant, but I'm not sure where I would take the extra SS procs/dot ticks to figure out the actual increase from the trinket itself. I'd think subtracting out normal SS procs/dot tick extentions from a normal set of dots would be a step in the right direction, but there's also wasted GCDs (from reapplying the dots when dots are already ticking) and overwriting eclipsed dots with non-eclipsed dots some of the time to consider. As you said, it feels pretty messy, but hopefully this something.

I'm sure you and Tec have put in a lot more complex equations into WrathCalcs about starsurge, so this is probably just old news for you haha.

Originally Posted by Eloraqz

@Slippykins
i would change a few things in your bis list
Back -> Deadly Glare Cape (Haste/Crit/Socket) (Durumu) (Can be thunderforged too)
Ring -> Durumu's Captive Eyeball (Spirit, Crit, Socket) (Durumu) (Durumu) (Can be thunderforged too)
Ring -> Ro'shk's Remembrance (Mastery, Crit, Socket) (Iron Qon) (Durumu) (Can be thunderforged too)
Weapon -> Ritual Dagger of the Mind's Eye (Spirit, Crit, Socket) (Durumu) (Because i couldnt find Nadagasts on any boss)
Offhand -> Lei-SHen's Orb of Command (Haste, Crit, Socket) (Lei-Shen)

Trinkets -> unsure like you but Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen seems like a must have now

Once those items are in WrathCalcs, I'll have a look at them. As it stands I can't make a comparison if I can't compare their stats to what's current. I'm sure Tec, as he said, would include them if they were currently on a database he could steal them from.

• Hamlet · 02/16/13, 8:20 PM

Could probably make a very good estimate of Thunderforged items by taking the normal versions and increasing all stats by 1.009363^6 -> 5.75%.

Lei Shen--I'll probably do something like this:
--Ignore effects of the proc uptime itself, other than application of 2 100% crit DoTs. (Probably realistic. You'll certainly want to refresh both DoT's when the thing procs, and without perfect reaction, likely not have time to risk a crit nuke first).
--Compute how often you cast instant SS during duration (based on haste and crit). A little messy. It's too optimistic to assume every SS proc turns into an instant Starsurge cast. The GCD limit will be a factor (even though, on average, you're not getting 1 SS per second). Also, when a proc's not up you'll start casting something else and then not cast another Starsurge until it's done. If the rate of SS procs is high enough, a constant estimate might even be good enough here.
--Estimate average duration of super-DoTs. There's some minor recursion, but won't be too hard to come with something once the rate of extensions is known.
--Now we have the two important effects of each trinket proc worked out: added DoT crits and added Starsurges. At this point I can probably just lump them into the rotation on a uniform average basis. It's a random proc anyway so don't have to worry about specific interaction with timers.
--One quirk is to make sure I don't double-count added DoT crits by having them increase the rate of Starsurge in the normal rotation. One possibility is simply to put only the added DoT crits into the rotation and the Starsurges flow from that naturally--will think about that.

Stommped · 02/17/13, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by fountaiin

I tweeted GC 4 times complaining about the 100% crit trinket and shadow-priests yesterday, and today they fixed it for them, and also made our dots act snap-shot. You are welcome my friends :-).

It will undoubtedly be BIS, and it will probably get nerfed soon too. It's also going to break arena for us, and will make this a go-to moonkin trinket before any other class.

But it was my post in the thread he responded to!

OT: I don't really see how they could build in a "failsafe" for us as they did with Shadow. They could do the same where once the dots have lasted the entire duration then it recalculates crit on the next refresh, but that shouldn't have too large of an impact. The only other thing they could do is nerf the proc chance of SS which wouldn't work because what if you don't have the trinket?