We don't really need it since ours has no chance of going on forever (or really, even egregiously long). The whole point of the thing is that it should give a benefit lasting 15+ seconds or so like a normal trinket, or else nobody would use it (no class would use it just for 4 seconds of benefit, basically 2 added spell crits every 2 minutes). It's just designed that it doesn't give that benefit on its own, but requires an interaction with some class mechanic to do it. Crit DoTs are the obvious one, that's why they had to give us crit DoTs working like other classes to make it work. Since our crit DoTs play into some positive feedback that extends them, we're going to get an above-average benefit--20-25 seconds of DoTs from the trinket instead of the 16 or so it "should" be (i.e. a normal DoT length). But I think that's the sort of variance they're looking to explore with these more interesting new trinket types.

I made another post on the BiS thread about trinkets, the 10289 haste breakpoint and Incarnation vs. FoN. If anyone wants to add/critique anything, by all means it'd be greatly appreciated.

[Balance] T15H BiS List - Page 3

Added an update to WC thread with the new nuke values. The dropoff in the value of haste just after the 10289 breakpoint is because, right after that at 10296, your GCD bottoms out at 1 second (with Nature's Grace and no other haste procs, which is the most common scenario).

I haven't gone through the list in detail, but hitting 10289 haste and maximizing crit otherwise seems right. I think the advice to stack haste up to GCD cap should be applicable to most people, since anyone playing seriously is going to have both a Sinister meta and at least an LFR version of UVLS as soon as possible, and that's enough to pull haste even with crit.

Hamlet, do you agree with the contention that a multiple target fight will favour crit more than haste? It was generally accepted this tier that a crit build would be better than a haste breakpoint build because of the additional starsurge procs you got from the added crit.

I ask because Throne of Thunder has a majority of fights (9 out of 11) where there's 2 to 4 targets up for most of the fight, so I'm considering ignoring the haste breakpoint like we did this tier, even though WrathCalcs expresses it as a definite DPS increase.

Edit: I know this is partially a WrathCalcs question, but it extends on what I said earlier - in order to approximate a 2 target fight using WrathCalcs, would it be sufficient to just halve the tick rate (so it ticks twice as fast) and add two GCDs onto the total cycle length? Assuming we could still cycle eclipses without dots expiring, I'd think that would be the only change to the rotation with an added target. You're still applying the same dots to each target, and you're using two additional GCDs you wouldn't use otherwise.

Anyway, whether it's right or wrong it seems to kinda agree with what you'd think. Force of Nature is quite a bit further below Incarnation, Dream of Cenarius is significantly lower (5k below HotW, whereas it was 2k above before), marginal value of crit is about 50% higher than haste before haste breakpoint, but about 600% higher afterward. What's odd is that the difference between the haste BP and crit builds is now larger - 3%, or 7k DPS.

All I did to WrathCalcs was go into the haste sheet, divide harmonic weighted mean tick rates by the number of targets, then I went over to the rotation page and added (number of additional dots)*NGGCD. Changing it to three targets showed the same correlation: value of the breakpoint went up significantly, crit was worth much more than haste again, and the DPS difference between the two scenarios was 4.4%, up from 3% with two-targets and 1.34% single-target.

Tec, if you're able to answer this that'd be great too. I'm not very good at using spreadsheets, but what I've altered makes sense to me. Being able to model 2 or 3 target fights would be really good to actually have some maths background on the one thing we've all left to logical deduction for a while now.

Edit 2: Taking off the Unerring trinket and replacing with Cha-Ye's shows that the gap in builds is mostly caused by the 100% crit dots getting the extra tick from the haste BP. 2 target is a 1.17% difference, 3 target is a 1.24% difference. I'm still not sure if this model is accurate or anything, but if it is, then it does shed some light on the power of this one trinket. Also shows haste breakpoints are important for multi-target fights, along with high amounts of crit.

Edit 3: on second thought, halving the tick rate to emulate two really fast ticking dots instead of four normal ticking dots would overestimate the Unerring trinket were we not able to reapply all 4 dots while the buff is up - if we have a weakaura active and make sure to reapply the moment you get the proc, then yeah it should be accurate, but if not it'll be overestimating how much DPS the trinket gives. Does mean the 3 target situation is overestimating regardless.

Also, Starfire/Wrath/Starsurge crits would be extending all four/six appropriate dots with a crit, instead of just the one/two on the target hit by the main nuke. Starting to get more complicated...

5% more haste mostly means 5% more ticks, or 5% more SS procs.

At 50% crit, 5% more crit rating means 10% more crits, or 10% more SS procs.

Yeah, that's right. Although the actual DPS/DPET from the DoTs, as well as from the Starsurges, is more improved by haste (especially if the breakpoint gets involved), so it's hard to say offhand.

One thing that does work against haste in all these cases is that the Sinister meta will cause us to be GCD-capped some percentage of the time. Probably the reason haste didn't jump more clearly ahead of crit with the RPPM changes.

That's the main story. Just a couple details: 1) in the case of haste you would need to divide that 5% between your current effective haste if you wanted to do that kind of computation 2) +1% crit is more expensive in terms of rating than 1% haste (600 rating per 1% compared to 425 per 1%). Overall the SS procs should put crit ahead of haste but it would be nice to have a modelled estimate.

Balance DoTs work as advertised with UVLS on PTR. Proc is called "Perfect Aim." Something I hadn't thought about before--wouldn't this thing be essentially unusable with default UI?

If you turn on "Auras Gained/Lost" in the default floating combat text, you can see when it procs without having any external mods.

You might have to change the t15 bis list, i can't find the main hand weapon: Nadagast's Exsanguinator in the throne of thunder loot table.

Hi everyone, just quick thoughts after testing the trinket during 1h. In my very humble opinion, I think it can't be a BiS trinket. Many reasons why:

- the RealPPM is weird, it can proc after 30sec, or 5min.
- when the proc comes, in 1/5 case, I'm in an eclipse. And I can't play with an ICD's tracker because of the weirdness of the RealPPM.
- when I reapply my DoT's with the buff, okay they do 100% crit both. However, the procrate for instant SS is still 30%, so I can't spam my SS during all the DoT duration. Because of that, I have to cast wrath/starfire, with a proc during the cast (or two). Plus, when it procs during a pull (with Incarnation/CA), my both DoT's are doing 11% and 8% of my DPS (for a 30sec burst).
- the buff duration is only 4sec, so I guess 3 real sec to realize that it proccd. After the application of my DoT's, all my SS procs are not buffed, so I can't fully extend my DoT's.
- compared to standard situation, with a higher GS, I have really a lot of proc SS, even more when it's multidotting (when I was testing the 10HC boss with 532/537 GS). I even can spam my SS with 3 targets.

I'm sorry it's just an instinctive reasoning, no maths here