[Balance] Mists of Pandaria 5.2, Guide and Discussion [5.3 updates] - Page 4

♦ Tecton · 09/29/12, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by zgollum

Yeah, I see that only armory import is broken because of ScriptControl being unavailable in 64bit Excel. I've tried to use a vba lib to do json parsing as an alternative but the lib was parsing data into dictionary instead of making a cool and easy to use object as scriptcontrol does so I went on and installed 32 Excel

I've still had issues with armory import by the way, not sure why no one mentioned. There's a function that tries to do For Each tree in talents, but there are no 'trees' in my talents in my character's json.
Please let me know if I should post WrathCalcs issues in another thread instead of doing it here.

Yeah, I'd post it over in the Wrathcalcs thread to keep this one on track. The next update should have armory import updated for the new JSON structure. I'm in the process of working on it now, if someone could tell Blizzard that random stat items are a nightmare that'd be great!

♦ Tecton · 09/29/12, 7:22 PM

Originally Posted by Slippykins

Boomkin T14H BiS: Profiler - Wowhead

Tried checking this to add to Wrathcalcs, the page is just blank?

Slippykins · 09/29/12, 8:19 PM

Originally Posted by Tecton

Tried checking this to add to Wrathcalcs, the page is just blank?

You have to be signed into Wowhead, I got the same blank page just verifying the link worked. Cleared up once I signed in.

Stommped · 09/30/12, 3:40 AM

I'm curious as to what you guys plan on using talent/reforge wise heading into Tuesday's first raid. I was set on using INC/NV with Crit>Haste>Mast reforge priority, but Wrathcalcs seems to disagree. Currently in my 463 blues the highest DPS combination comes from FoN/HotW, and that is the same whether I reforge for Crit or Haste.

Which brings me to the second thing I found odd when playing around in WC, I assumed that with it being impossible to reach the 5200 breakpoint in blues that crit would be the way to go. But when I entered my stats of around 1300 haste and 4000 crit, WC actually preferred Haste>Crit at 1.75 to 1.72. And then these stat weights flip flopped when I reversed my reforges to prefer haste over crit. It doesn't seem to matter which stat you gear for, WC has them virtually dead even at our current gear levels.

The bigger issue however is the talent choices. Hamlet/Tec do the calculations for FoN need to be tweaked at all?

♦ Tecton · 09/30/12, 4:47 AM

I'm valuing Haste and Crit roughly equally at these low levels of gear, however if I have to choose between one I'm tending to go with Haste just because of the secondary benefits (I find having quicker casts easier to use on new encounters). Not really a scientific answer, but it's the method I'm using. I've also been running with Incarnation/HotW for heroics because the healing cooldown has proven useful on hilarious pulls.

As far as FoN, we still need to correctly identify how many attacks they get at different levels of haste. I think it's going to have to be something of a judgement call due to their dodgy mechanics, though.

zgollum · 09/30/12, 3:32 PM

A really noob question, but could someone please explain the logic behind this:
"When casting two DoTs at the beginning of Eclipse: first cast the Eclipsed DoT, then the uneclipsed DoT, then Starsurge if it's up."

Casting a weaker dot first would buff initial damage of the stronger dot by 45% and seems to be clearly more favorable. I could only think of one reason to do otherwise - hoping that the stronger dot would be prolonged by SF/W crits and thus it will last at least as long as the weaker dot which is cast 1 gcd later.

• Hamlet · 09/30/12, 3:55 PM

That is what I was thinking, but I hadn't thought about Lunar Shower. Since it actually makes little difference as far as duration, I should probably swap that.

zgollum · 09/30/12, 4:11 PM

Well, it'd be nice to be sure

I've tried testing it but the difference isn't visible without any clothes on and it's too hard to test with clothes on because of random procs and stuff. I guess simcrafting it both way would be the right thing to do.

♦ Tecton · 09/30/12, 8:07 PM

Originally Posted by Stommped

Which brings me to the second thing I found odd when playing around in WC, I assumed that with it being impossible to reach the 5200 breakpoint in blues that crit would be the way to go. But when I entered my stats of around 1300 haste and 4000 crit, WC actually preferred Haste>Crit at 1.75 to 1.72. And then these stat weights flip flopped when I reversed my reforges to prefer haste over crit. It doesn't seem to matter which stat you gear for, WC has them virtually dead even at our current gear levels.

Just further to this point: I'm able to hit this breakpoint in pre-raid gear. I'm currently at 5555 Haste while hit capped, and it's still showing as slightly better than Crit, point for point. I still have upgrades available for my bracers & neck, too.

Erdluf · 09/30/12, 8:21 PM

Well, it'd be nice to be sure I've tried testing it but the difference isn't visible without any clothes on and it's too hard to test with clothes on because of random procs and stuff. I guess simcrafting it both way would be the right thing to do.

If the stronger DoT is likely to get clipped (target will die soon, you refresh before leaving Eclipse, or you plan to use AC after the current Eclipse), you'd want to cast the stronger DoT first, giving it one or possibly two extra ticks before it is clipped.

If the weaker DoT is still ticking (particularly if it is Eclipe-boosted), cast the stronger DoT now. Don't overwrite a DoT with an Eclipse bonus with a DoT that has no such bonus (you could make an exception to this for a long chain of DoT spam while moving).

If for some reason, Lunar Shower won't matter for the second DoT (you won't be able to make two consecutive casts, or you already have LS*3 from casting at other targets), cast the stronger DoT first.

Otherwise, Zgollum is correct, you want to give the Lunar shower bonus to the stronger DoT. However the difference is fairly small (perhaps <0.3% total DPS).

Karepow · 09/30/12, 9:50 PM

Originally Posted by Tecton

Just further to this point: I'm able to hit this breakpoint in pre-raid gear. I'm currently at 5555 Haste while hit capped, and it's still showing as slightly better than Crit, point for point. I still have upgrades available for my bracers & neck, too.

I'm interested to know what your DPS is looking like after reaching this haste breakpoint? I'm currently going for as much crit as possible.

• Hamlet · 09/30/12, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Tecton

Just further to this point: I'm able to hit this breakpoint in pre-raid gear. I'm currently at 5555 Haste while hit capped, and it's still showing as slightly better than Crit, point for point. I still have upgrades available for my bracers & neck, too.

That is interesting--I'd been showing haste as pretty consistently (slightly) under crit when I played with it a few days ago. In any case though, that's similar to logic of why I put haste over crit in the way I wound up writing the guide for now. They're similar in value without breakpoints, and breakpoints are worth a good amount even you spread the value over a few thousand haste. So for advanced players, a more convenient way to think about things is to gear for haste first and then pull back to a breakpoint. For beginners who won't look in that much detail it's sort of arbitrary, but favoring haste is probably in the long run because they'll hit those breakpoints in the process.

HarleyM · 09/30/12, 11:17 PM

From my testing Zen Alchemist Stone appears to be a 55s ICD, not a 45s ICD, and does proc off of DoTs.

M� nze · 10/01/12, 3:35 PM

Originally Posted by Skyepic

In Short: Wristwatch > Alchemist Stone > Vision of the Predator > Flashfrozen Resin Globule

What about [Ghost Iron Dragonling]? At least at the moment this trinket ist BoE and anyone can make use of 3 cogwheel sockets, resulting in 1800 sec. stats of choice which is pretty huge for an ilvl450 item.

p.s Note that cogwheels are unique equipped, so you will probably end up using +600 crit, +600 haste and +600 spirit combo.

Skyepic · 10/01/12, 9:24 PM

Originally Posted by M� nze

What about [Ghost Iron Dragonling]? At least at the moment this trinket ist BoE and anyone can make use of 3 cogwheel sockets, resulting in 1800 sec. stats of choice which is pretty huge for an ilvl450 item.

p.s Note that cogwheels are unique equipped, so you will probably end up using +600 crit, +600 haste and +600 spirit combo.

I feel the dragonling falls off because you can't add Intellect to it as well as the proc being very lackluster.