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10/02/12, 10:08 AM
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#61
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Druid
Frostmane (EU)
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Originally Posted by Skyepic
I feel the dragonling falls off because you can't add Intellect to it as well as the proc being very lackluster.
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The dragonling makes it much easier to get to the hit cap and haste breakpoint. When you are at the point where you can reforge/gem to get there without the dragonling it quickly falls off, but before that it's excellent.
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10/03/12, 10:15 AM
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#62
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Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Anetheron (EU)
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is there any testing on mooncat at the moment?
Last edited by âve : 10/03/12 at 10:23 AM.
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10/03/12, 10:29 AM
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#63
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<Druid Trainer>
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Not that I'm aware of. I'm interested too. I did just glance at the charsheet once yesterday and note that my Attack Power seemed to be usual Cat value + twice my spellpower (or was it that my Agility was increased by twice my Int? d'oh). Either way, easy to check again. Melee hit seemed equal to spell hit and Expertise was capped. Point it, HotW really does pump up your main stat quite a bit, so the idea is very plausible.
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10/03/12, 5:44 PM
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#64
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Glass Joe
Troll Druid
Kul Tiras (EU)
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Are u sure 100% that yellow gems are +320 pure crit, and not int\crit? same goes for purple, spirit\crit gem?
Im now about th e hastebreak point (5273), i have 6k, should i reforge haste-away to crit?
I just won a waist [Stonebound Cinch] with yellow and blue gem- bonus: 120 spirit. I want to stack all red gems 160int since the bonus is shit, is it better to everything int[160int red gem], or actually use yellow & blue gems. [And if yes, whats stats]
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10/03/12, 10:54 PM
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#65
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Xavy
Are u sure 100% that yellow gems are +320 pure crit, and not int\crit? same goes for purple, spirit\crit gem?
Im now about th e hastebreak point (5273), i have 6k, should i reforge haste-away to crit?
I just won a waist [Stonebound Cinch] with yellow and blue gem- bonus: 120 spirit. I want to stack all red gems 160int since the bonus is shit, is it better to everything int[160int red gem], or actually use yellow & blue gems. [And if yes, whats stats]
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Assuming you don't need haste for a breakpoint:
Yellow socket: +320 crit gem
Red socket: +160 exp, +160 crit
Blue socket: +160 crit, +160 hit
Since in red sockets, WrathCalcs proves 160 crit > 80 int (comparing orange int/crit gem to red int gem), the same follows that 320 crit > 160 int (same ratio).
Also, a bonus of 120 spirit is essentially the same as 120 crit or 120 haste, depending on which one you need, since we reforge in and out of those stats harmoniously.
And to your second question: WrathCalcs would give you a more reliable answer (just minus haste down to 5273 in the manual stat change line and add the same to crit), I'd say stick with your haste for the moment. With such low haste/gear levels, people have been claiming haste > crit at the moment, so with an educated guess, you're probably fine as is.
Last edited by Slippykins : 10/04/12 at 9:28 AM.
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10/04/12, 12:46 AM
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#66
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Slippykins
Assuming you don't need haste for a breakpoint:
Red socket: +80 int, +160 crit
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WrathCalcs proves 160 crit > 80 int
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Also, a bonus of 120 spirit is essentially the same as 120 crit or 120 haste
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This suggests you should use Crit/Expertise in a red socket, not Crit/Int
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10/04/12, 7:21 AM
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#67
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Soda Popinski
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Ok, so a few observations from last night's raiding where I killed the first two bosses(I'm sure a few of you will also have some input from your first steps into Mogu'shan Vaults):
I ended up swapping to SotF for Feng, mostly to simplify my rotation (leading again after 6 months of a break is surprisingly difficult to pick back up!) and minimise DoT downtime. Until things start getting messy with death/resses/emergency healing with HotW I was able to sustain around 50k towards the end of the night when we got the kill (unfortunately, the kill wasn't caught by the logs). Still developing the muscle memory for the new optimal DoT application, Starsurge use, optimal CA placement, etc, so I know for a fact I could improve on that too. For reference, this was with ~5500 Haste.
I do feel that despite what we get for paper results, if you are able to fully focus purely on your own rotation that huge cooldown stacking (i.e. Incarnation/Nature's Vigil/Celestial Alignment/Beserking/Potion/Heroism/Synapse Springs) will probably end up producing more real world DPS however as you can funnel all of that extra damage into a window when you know you'll be able to fully utilise it. I do appreciate having the option to free up some mental bandwidth being a competitive option though.
As far as level 90 talents, I can't really see past Heart of the Wild (probably more so in a 10 man situation) for progress. Even ignoring any mooncat shenanigans which I've not experimented with yet, we're able to put out a non-awful amount of healing if a healer dies/disconnects/etc. I know while learning both encounters I killed last night I was able to stablise several attempts that were heading south which is far more useful while learning new encounters than any extra damage would be. Just getting further into an attempt and seeing more mechanics dramatically shortens the learning curve, and we're much more able to cover this role than we were during Cataclysm despite a much more limited toolkit in terms of healing spells.
Overall, I found Balance to be a lot more enjoyable to raid with than it was during Firelands or Dragon Soul.
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10/04/12, 9:27 AM
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#68
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by HarleyM
This suggests you should use Crit/Expertise in a red socket, not Crit/Int
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Yes, that's correct, I just wrote that down wrong. Sorry!
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10/04/12, 10:11 AM
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#69
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Nordrassil (EU)
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World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Probably not of a huge amount of use to anyone, but logs of last nights raid of me using Mooncat on every encounter.
I didn't really pick up many encounter specific tricks from the first raid. On Feng, using HotW as Celestial Aligned DoT's run off allows for a buffed Tranq for the 2nd Epicentre and for it still be off cooldown for 2nd Mooncat in p3. Rake ticks for a fair bit and I found keeping it up on both targets along with both Moonkin DoT's on Stone Guard seemed to be a fair bit of a dps increase (Rake did as much of my damage as Wrath)
This was with weapon swapping to an agility weapon of same ilvl, I don't know if this is a dps increase as I read int weapons increase Rake damage and Feral weapons Mangle/Fero Bite? Is the increased weapon damage worth the int loss for agil conversion?
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10/04/12, 12:28 PM
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#70
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Von Kaiser
Worgen Druid
Frostmane (EU)
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Originally Posted by âve
is there any testing on mooncat at the moment?
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I've been using it in 5-man heroics and it's absolutely beastly for those short fights. I also tried using it on our first night of Stone Guard last night but found it inferior to Moonkin burst with Heroism, Incarnation, NV and CA multi-dotting.
All Intellect procs and on-use bonuses do convert directly to Agility and, as far as I can tell, it's simply 200% of your Intellect (and with 1 Agility giving 2 AP, I believe?). It's capable of massive burst damage if you get a lot of Int bonuses lined up but, even at the Haste breakpoint, I've only got an extra 1 point of Energy regeneration per second. That's the main downfall - Energy regeneration for Balance is very, very low and we don't have anything to increase it meaningfully. It was suggested earlier in the thread that going to Bear Form and using a Mangle and/or Lacerate could be of use, but Bear Form Mangle seems to hit for about the same as a HotW-enhanced Cat auto-attack (and also causes major threat issues, especially if it crits).
I feel pretty confident in saying that, on a single-target fight, it will really shine. You can also multi-dot two targets pretty effectively with Rake and that is worth a good chunk of dps, too. I think Stone Guard was the wrong raid encounter to test it on (since Raked targets get taunted out pretty frequently and then gain their 90% damage resistance buff). I intend to test it on Feng tonight (I hope) and I'll report back here with my findings.
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10/04/12, 12:37 PM
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#71
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<Druid Trainer>
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Remember you can dump your energy and shift out to reapply Moonkin DoTs while it's regenerating.
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10/04/12, 4:20 PM
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#72
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Von Kaiser
Worgen Druid
Frostmane (EU)
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Originally Posted by Hamlet
Remember you can dump your energy and shift out to reapply Moonkin DoTs while it's regenerating.
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Excellent idea, thank you.
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10/04/12, 9:05 PM
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#73
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<Druid Trainer>
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Normally in Cat:
Agility is normal agility + 100% of Int. Looks like the Heart of the Wild passive doesn't double-dip, but Mark of the Wild does.
Hit and haste are the same as for spells.
Expertise is 0.
Crit rating is the same, but final crit% is higher just due to better conversion from Agi than from Int.
Mastery does nothing.
With Heart of the Wild:
Agility is 3x what it was above: (BaseAgi + Int)*3*1.05
+15% hit/exp
Haste is the same.
Crit goes up because Agility does.
Mastery still does nothing.
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10/05/12, 2:00 AM
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#74
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Proudmoore
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Stat Question:
If Int is worth a Value of 1, what would the values of Haste/Mastery/Crit be?
Few questions about playstyles and Vaults.
I'd done a full clear of the place and I we wiped on purpose so we could try multiple specs and strategies.
My big questions about spec are on:
1. Will of the Emperor. I couldn't find a spec I liked for this. Most of the time, you can line up all your CDs with the Start and Titan Gas. But...is that the best way to use the fight? Our Dots can't compete at all with Spriest and Afflic lock, so I was guessing we'd just go a Nuke/Single Target Spec. My top DPS was with Inc/NV for the Titan Gas Phases (which don't always line up with CDs).
2. Elegon. I use a NV/Inc build here most of the time. I found the NV passive healing works wonders with Annihlation. I used my CDs at the Start, Phase1 part2, and Phase 1 part3. Note: There is time wasted where my CDs are off CD during P3. If someone has a better idea with a talent build, please share.
I'm not happy at all with Treants...I find them atrocious. I also don't see the point to Soul of the Forest since we aren't putting stats into Mastery.
Also....Dream of Cenarius - should this Talent just be ignored until we get higher gear levels? I feel most of my Healing Touch are wasted on myself to keep a high uptime on DPS. I also feel my Dots are so nerfed that the 50% doesn't mean much. I'm guessing DoC is a single target fight friendly and not multi?
Last edited by Narwhal6 : 10/05/12 at 5:29 AM.
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10/05/12, 11:32 AM
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#75
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Von Kaiser
Troll Druid
Stormreaver (EU)
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Originally Posted by Hamlet
Remember you can dump your energy and shift out to reapply Moonkin DoTs while it's regenerating.
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Have you factored in the difference between Balance DoTs and auto-attacks when simply camping cat? With the global usage to shapeshift at either side, it may be worth staying in kitty whilst pooling energy.
I'll do some testing tonight if nobody has got any numbers on that, but from my 5man advertures last night my autoattack damage was fairly significant during HotW.
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