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Old 10/12/12, 4:38 PM   #121
gannonjf
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Korgath
Maybe on paper but so far heroic modes are high movement. High movement will hurt Windsong alot as it only procs off direct damage and not dots unless it has been fixed and I missed it.

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Old 10/12/12, 4:47 PM   #122
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Believe that's been changed.

Yeah, don't know with Windsong. A week ago I was saying "obviously they won't put back the beta one, flatly overpowered," and now it's there. Use your cheap enchant and don't complain, for as long as it lasts, I guess.


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Old 10/12/12, 6:44 PM   #123
Szilia
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
A quick thing about WrathCalc. The trinket Pandaren Dragonling is now, from what I can tell, called Ghost Iron Dragonling. That's a minor thing though. What's not is that I wasn't able to pick any cogweels when I choose that trinket, which kinda made it difficult to compare it to other trinkets.

As it wasn't working, I'll just put the question out here, in case it's easy for you to determine this: Is the engineer trinket with 600 haste, 600 mastery and 600 crit, better than VIal of Ichorous Blood (874 int)? Thank you.

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Old 10/13/12, 2:52 PM   #124
Reddayspring
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
Proudmoore
I've been parsing pretty high on 25n with full crit/reforges/gems sitting somewhere around 3k haste. Some fo the appeal for me I know is that I still get added ticks on dots any direct nuke crit and there isn't enough secondary budget for me to extend those. This is super important to me for eeking out every tick I can on inc/nv/ca'd dot pairs, especially with multi target fights like Elegon where you usually will have 4 dots rolling during CA. I think skull banner skews my interest towards crit more as well. It's still kind of feast or famine occasionally, the only big thing I'm noticing in my personal rotation is that I will get solar cycles where I don't proc the second starsurge to cast before leaving which is kind of annoying.

And windsong has been reverted to work on dots/hots and have insane proc rates. Was sitting between 12-22% uptime on each buff on Thursday night, our resto druid had 40% average on each over our 9:20ish kill on Elegon 25

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Old 10/13/12, 3:10 PM   #125
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Yeah, Windsong is totally bananas for Resto. Should put that in the Resto guide actually. It's possible they won't see a need to fix it--it's always the case that Resto loves any on-tick no-ICD proc. It's not overpowered compared to Jade Spirit for most classes, so if there's one that disproportionately likes one kind of proc it's no big deal.

12-22% is slightly lower than what WC is assuming IIRC, but then, the WC BIS profile has much more haste, so maybe that actually works out even in the long run.


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Old 10/15/12, 2:50 AM   #126
magojo
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
<Ice>
Kazzak (EU)
I'm having trouble doing any comparable damage on the Energy Charges from Elegon, at the moment i've given up trying to dps the boss between sparks and instead channel Astral Communion because that gets me a new eclipse faster. However the last 2 Charges there really isn't enough time to cycle through to a new eclipse and get that haste buff which makes it very random if the Energy Charge i am assigned to dies or not.
Also, are you applying dots to them or not? I did in the beginning but at the moment i've stopped doing it as they (should) die to quickly for it to be a useful GCD to spend.

Lately i started thinking if sitting in an eclipse and utilizing Lunar Shower would be of interest, but i have yet to try that.
Some tips or pointers would be swell!

Edit: Or maybe i should have posted this in the simple questions topic, my bad if so!

Last edited by magojo : 10/15/12 at 3:40 AM.

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Old 10/15/12, 3:41 AM   #127
Zantaz
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
Hi Mauron! Mystikal here :-)

I haven't had the chance to dps Elegon yet (had to tank last night) but some of our dps were able to make a bit of a gain by channelling an AoE over the boss whilst he spawned the Energy Charges, letting the first tick damage everything and then go to town on their assigned Charge.

Solar Hurricane is pretty decent so this might be worth a try for us Moonkins. I was also wondering to myself last night if saving Celestial Alignment for a Charge phase might also be of help, since we can AC to a Lunar and get a double Starfall (one each for two waves). From what you've said about not having enough time to cycle Eclipses beyond the second wave, it seems likely this will also result in a net dps increase on the Charges, but, if I'm remembering my timing properly from last night, you wouldn't be able to use CA as part of your opener on pull.

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Old 10/15/12, 3:47 AM   #128
magojo
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
<Ice>
Kazzak (EU)
Ah, a familiar face!

Hmm, that aoe was at least something new.
Yeah, i've been contemplating saving one cd for the charge phases to.
Setting it up like Incarnation on pull, CA on charges, Incarnation on second charges and then CA on last phase. Or maybe the timings would work to have CA on both charge phases and then Incarnation on both phase 1's and then also in the last phase to assist with the healing (when using Natures Vigil).

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Old 10/15/12, 5:14 AM   #129
Zantaz
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
On the subject of DoC for a moment (I'm thinking of moving to that once HotW gets nerfed as I prefer a little bit of complexity when I DPS), has anyone done any testing on how often we should be buffing our DoTs?

On the beta, I was using the system of gaining the two charges but only using them for Eclipsed DoTs, so you only had to cast half the number of HTs. However, that was some time ago and I haven't tried DoC since - does this still work or is it necessary to cast HT before every single DoT refresh?

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Old 10/15/12, 5:26 AM   #130
Reddayspring
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
Proudmoore
For elegon spark phase what I found worked the best personally was to setup mushrooms on the ones on our side of the room between phases while clearing the debuff stacks, reapply dots on elegon to fish for shooting stars, and then get hurricane rolling on spawn location ala h rag for the 1st tick hitting all 3, then blow up shrooms, eclipsed dot on your add and cast into it. In a perfect world, startting from solar is nice cause it gets you into lunar by the tough waves. Even without though things like an uneclipsed starfire into someone elses add can be a great save. Only cd I'd really consider saving for it is maybe a starfall since the first spark phase should happen to soon for 3m cd's to be back up and you can't really afford to lose a use of a CD on the boss.

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Old 10/15/12, 7:34 AM   #131
qae
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Kirin Tor (EU)
What I use mostly is sitting in Eclipse, using Lunar shower spamm and starsurge when it procs (if it doesn't get you out of Eclipse - or if you have time to get to next eclipse before next charge), spamming Moonfire/Sunfire on the boss between charges to keep Lunar shower stacks up. Worked pretty decently (25 man).

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Old 10/15/12, 8:21 AM   #132
magojo
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
<Ice>
Kazzak (EU)
Originally Posted by qae View Post
What I use mostly is sitting in Eclipse, using Lunar shower spamm and starsurge when it procs (if it doesn't get you out of Eclipse - or if you have time to get to next eclipse before next charge), spamming Moonfire/Sunfire on the boss between charges to keep Lunar shower stacks up. Worked pretty decently (25 man).
Happy to hear someone tried it!
I was thinking about camping in solar, saving the whole eclipse bar for potential starsurge procs on the 2-3 last charges.
Solar also gives buffs to hurricane and mushrroms mentioned above. Then you can include starfall on the last wave.

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Old 10/16/12, 2:43 AM   #133
magojo
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Druid
 
<Ice>
Kazzak (EU)
I tried the Lunar Shower way tonight and we at least downed him!
I wasn't that high on the damage done to the Charges, but i generally slacked a little bit on the first wave as i didn't have the correct eclipse so the first and sometimes second was done mostly while not in eclipse. For the last (6th for us) wave i had mushrooms planted and also starfall generally came off cd just before or during that wave.
Thanks for all the tips!

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Old 10/16/12, 2:14 PM   #134
Slippykins
Piston Honda
 
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Worgen Druid
 
Cenarius
Since the removal of [Pearlescent Butterfly Wristbands] from the BiS list, I went over a few of the stat weights to determine whether or not they had changed since we originally discussed them. More specifically, I wanted to see if the burning primal meta theoretically beat the gain in secondary stats from the revitalising meta (spoiler: they're equal).

This lead me to tabulate each of the stat weights when using either meta gem.

Stat weightings with burning

Int: 4.52
Hit: 2.44
Crit: 2.25
Mastery: 1.83
Haste: 1.40

Stat weightings with revitalising

Int: 4.55
Hit: 2.44
Crit: 2.25
Mastery: 1.83
Haste: 1.40

These results make sense, as haste/hit/mastery/crit weights shouldn't change much, as their values only differ slightly (or in the case of haste/hit/mastery, not at all). However, as we have been avoiding int for this gearset, it pulls ahead slightly in the 1:2 ratio of gems. Therefore, until some point, the int/crit gems will outweigh the pure crit gems.

What does this mean overall? Essentially, all I'm saying is that the two meta gems are equivalent. Just as we reforge in and out of hit/crit/haste, making them all equal in "weight", so too can we gem in and out of int/crit. Therefore, we have a new "cap" - namely, the point at which Int = 2x Crit. This occurs (assuming perfect haste/hit cap) at roughly 16161 Int and 7500 Crit, where int = 4.5 and crit = 2.25.

Furthermore, this is not possible to reach with a revitalising gem. If you gem for revitalising and switch out all pure crit gems for int/crit, you fall 100 int short of the "int cap". Thus, precious ints are wasted, and DPS is lowered. Hence, and only in this situation where stats are maxed in heroic gear, we can say pretty confidently that the burning meta gem is best in the BiS scenario. This is a lot more difficult to measure with intermediate gear, since the stat weights between int and crit change dynamically on all the other stats (and themselves), so I can't vouch for when int = 2x crit beneath these levels.

In the burning primal situation, changing two crit -> int/crit gems results in 16197 int and 7428 crit, the closest possible outcome to the 16161/7500 optimised int/crit ratio. Thus, the theoretical maximum DPS attainable is 110229.22, and due to wasted reforge stats (~9.78 DPS) and an inability to reach the optimised int/crit ratio (~0.09 DPS), DPS now sits at 110219.35.

You may think that these tiny numbers don't mean much, but they do shine a lot of light on how dynamic our stats are. There are two things that I find most interesting: 1. haste drops significantly below mastery once at the BiS stat levels, and 2. crit's weight increases as more crit is added. Now, the latter part is purely theoretical, as adding additional crit means sacrificing the other stats, therefore most likely reducing the value of crit anyway, but I thought it was just interesting to note. The former part is irrelevant, as we cut back on excess haste and put it into crit, which is above mastery anyway.

Anyway, I'll be updating the BiS list to accommodate for the bracers change, and also to note the change in gems. I just want to clarify that the int/crit gems are in no means the best gem to use pre-BiS gear. We'll be following the general rule of 2x secondary > 1x int until we reach stat levels close enough to what we see here, so it should only be followed as an advanced tip to hardcore raiders rounding off their sets. Use WrathCalcs when in doubt.

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Old 10/16/12, 2:49 PM   #135
Narwhal6
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Elegon and Moonkins:

My favorite build so far has been the Inc+NV set up. You get to use it each time you enter P1. Best part about the last time you're in P1 is that you'll have heroism up as well and you can stagger personal mitigation to never reset your stacks.

For the spark phase, it entirely depends on what your team of 3 looks like (We sorta split into two teams of three with a back up tank dps for 3 sparks). I'm able to just dot up all three sparks and then use SS procs while hardcasting on the boss in between.



Can someone go over what the posted on the previous page was saying about Moonkins and Starfall use? I had no idea what he was trying to say.

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