[Feral-Cat] Mists of Pandaria 5.2 - Page 2

Seles · 10/03/12, 6:48 PM

Those values don't make too much sense to me.

Hit is worth 0 only if HoTW is always active, due to the 15% spellhit it gives you, so those scaling coefficients seem to be only for HoTW active time. (Your char isn't hitcapped at 2545 rating.)

Yet, why then does expertise and mastery have a value? Neither affects wrath-spam.

A few additional things:
Are you modeling HoTW activation during heroism/potting?
Do you include in-combat gcds for weapon swapping?
Make sure you stop casting wrath when the buff has under [cast time] left.

Jazdia · 10/03/12, 7:46 PM

Yeah, I noted the extra cast that resulted in a 20 something thousand wrath. Need to stop the cast. It does look like something is messing up the hit rating. I will try to get it resolved.

Rainman5419 · 10/03/12, 11:27 PM

Thanks for posting. Good info so far. Might want to update the OP with the Oct 2nd Symbiosis changes, which were targeted at weakening what other tank specs received from the druid.

Originally Posted by Blizzard

Symbiosis has been changed, and now grants the following abilities:
Protection warriors - Stampeding Shout
Blood death knights - Wild Mushroom: Plague
Protection paladins - Wrath
Brewmaster monks - Bear Hug

Another thing, that you did note in the OP was the recent Thrash change. It was my understanding that this is targeted at Guardian spec, unless there is an unintended bug or the wording is poor.

Originally Posted by Blizzard

The periodic damage of Thrash (Bear) now deals 60% more damage. Initial direct damage remains un-changed.

Montecorex · 10/04/12, 4:41 AM

So, stat weights and gearing aside; I wanted to talk/ask about DoC, I have been using anything but in an attempt to avoid it, but after going through logs tonight I see that it is leaving me significantly behind at least for those who are using it completely optimally. I understand that the target is to use PS at 4 combo points to apply DoC to rake and rip, I am just having an issue with the logistics and I can't find a solid forum to give me any insight on the issue. I can get the first rake and the first rip using my NS CD and PRE-casting HT into a pull, however from there even if I pool to 80 energy before using shred I still end up applying it to 1 rake and 1 shred on average clipping the rake like I would if I were using TF to buff it (every other rake is usually a TF+DoC rake as a rough estimate.) First question would be is this a dps increase from say HotW or NV? Second does anyone have a rough priority list including DoC? Third I am looking for an addon to track things more effectively I am currently using NeedtoKnow, but have heard rumors that Ovale is supporting DoC... I just can't seem to find the download. Leafkiller said it was on curse, but the one on curse doesn't seem to support DoC at all with no options to do so. I have been spending the last few hours messing around with it on a target dummy and I am intrigued by it I want to get this rotation down I just have little to no information to go off of other than rumors here and there as well as simcraft.

P.S. Do you have simulated evidence that thrash is actually optimal? You mentioned that you don't get the energy back from using thrash which makes hit/expertise cap more reasonable, from first glance I would assume that thrash makes mastery worth a lot more considering it is a 3rd bleed so hit cap/expertise cap and mastery for the rest of it leaving us with significantly lower crit/haste. The main issue I have with this is I am already seeing issues with losing uptime because of my crit being so low, even while pooling. Thrash gives no combo points and some times in practice on a boss fight a OoC proc is the difference between rip falling off or not falling off. At that time I wasn't using SotF however and expect to see a noticeable difference there. Any way Thanks for you time. This post is awesome and has helped me a lot so far in the expac keep up the good work.

Jagger911 · 10/04/12, 4:47 AM

HotW seems to be stronger than DoC at the moment. At least it feels that way. I am halfway through a fight and popping HotW during bloodlust, using a potion and spamming wraths increases my dps by 10k easily. This was near the end of the fight too. That plus the 6% extra agility comes out on top from what i've experinced yesterday. Getting 200k wrath hits and 400k crits is just insane.

Montecorex · 10/04/12, 7:35 AM

I'll have to give that a shot in a raid when I read this post I went and tried it on a target dummy, and I was seeing 270k crits with an agi weapon and no int potion obviously no raid buffs... pretty insane stuff.

Jagger911 · 10/04/12, 2:49 PM

An agility potion actually benefits you more than an intellect one, also use a macro to switch to a spellpower weapon when popping HotW. For reference, click damage tab in the link below.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

RareBeast · 10/04/12, 7:02 PM

have heard rumors that Ovale is supporting DoC... I just can't seem to find the download. Leafkiller said it was on curse, but the one on curse doesn't seem to support DoC at all with no options to do so.

The best way is to install Nerien's Ovale Scripts with Ovale which gives you the option of replacing the default Ovale script with Leafkillers script.

Rainman5419 · 10/04/12, 9:10 PM

An addition question that the OP didn't seem to cover was DoC's interaction with a FB refreshed Rip. There's a bunch of possible scenarios how this does or doesn't work.

Montecorex · 10/05/12, 8:56 AM

I am still wondering if anyone has any confirmation on thrash actually being better than shred for clearcasting procs?

This Simulationcraft Results shows thrash as almost twice the dmg per execute time as shred. I see almost no one using thrash over shred for their clearcasting procs in logs, I haven't been doing this myself at all, and I have seen a few pretty decent ranks; I realize normal mode ranks mean nothing, but at this point with this many options for feral dps what ever is parsing highest consistently is what people will go with not what sims the highest. Just wondering if anyone has any more insight on this thrash topic thanks again.

Jazdia · 10/05/12, 9:37 AM

Originally Posted by Montecorex

I am still wondering if anyone has any confirmation on thrash actually being better than shred for clearcasting procs?

This Simulationcraft Results shows thrash as almost twice the dmg per execute time as shred. I see almost no one using thrash over shred for their clearcasting procs in logs, I haven't been doing this myself at all, and I have seen a few pretty decent ranks; I realize normal mode ranks mean nothing, but at this point with this many options for feral dps what ever is parsing highest consistently is what people will go with not what sims the highest. Just wondering if anyone has any more insight on this thrash topic thanks again.

Thrash most definitely does more DPE than shred, you are correct, and thus it is a better use of clearcasting procs if you are not going to lose out on CP that will cause you to drop Rip or SR or clip another Thrash.

That said, I can't speak for everyone, but when I dps, I'm mashing the button of the next ability in my priority list so that the ability will be executed as soon as the GCD is up with as little delay as possible. This can cause a clearcasting proc to be spent on another ability, which is often Shred.

• Hamlet · 10/05/12, 12:33 PM

Coming over Moonkin thread--I'm trying to figure out some basic info about HotW DPS. I've figured out what my Agility and other stats are with it active, but I need to know how that translates into damage of Mangle, Rake, FB, and white DPS. I see the OP by and large references SimCraft for the underlying math--is anyone around here the person who manages the Cat SimCraft and/or knows the basic formulae for determining the damage these abilities do based on your attack power?

a civilian · 10/05/12, 2:49 PM

Originally Posted by Montecorex

I am still wondering if anyone has any confirmation on thrash actually being better than shred for clearcasting procs?

This Simulationcraft Results shows thrash as almost twice the dmg per execute time as shred. I see almost no one using thrash over shred for their clearcasting procs in logs, I haven't been doing this myself at all, and I have seen a few pretty decent ranks; I realize normal mode ranks mean nothing, but at this point with this many options for feral dps what ever is parsing highest consistently is what people will go with not what sims the highest. Just wondering if anyone has any more insight on this thrash topic thanks again.

I just thrash if it has fewer than 3 seconds remaining and I don't need the CP; I don't really worry about clearcasts. If you don't need the CP, it's definitely worth casting over shred whether or not you have a clearcast. Doing pure single-target (not phasing) on Gara'jal I ended up doing 70k dps with 71% thrash uptime on the boss.

Jazdia · 10/05/12, 3:28 PM

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Coming over Moonkin thread--I'm trying to figure out some basic info about HotW DPS. I've figured out what my Agility and other stats are with it active, but I need to know how that translates into damage of Mangle, Rake, FB, and white DPS. I see the OP by and large references SimCraft for the underlying math--is anyone around here the person who manages the Cat SimCraft and/or knows the basic formulae for determining the damage these abilities do based on your attack power?

I'm not 100% sure about these formulae, but they were the best I could come up with while here at work. I have the exact ones at home I believe. Some of this is based on rooting through the source code of the pre-release version of simcraft I'm compiling to do my tests with HotW.

1 Agility increases AP by 2 and crit by a small amount I haven't calculated.
AP increases white damage per second by one per 14 AP.
Thus if you have 14,000 int, gain 14,000 agility due to that, you gain 1,000 dps.

This calculation is simplified for us because cat weapon speed is always 1s without accounting for haste, so 400% weapon damage is fairly easy to calculate.

Formulae:
EDIT: I initially gave the wrong rip formula.

Mangle:
400% weapon damage + 62 level scaling flat damage

Rake:
118 + .0736*AP initial damage (Unsure)
590 + .368*AP damage every 3s over 15 seconds

FB:
1 point : 1077 to 1447  + 0.196*AP
2 points: 1839 to 2209 + 0.392*AP
3 points: 2601 to 2971 + 0.588*AP
4 points: 3363 to 3733 + 0.784*AP
5 points: 4125 to 4495 + 0.980*AP

Rip:
1 point : ((433 + .0484*AP) * 8) damage every 2s over 16 sec.
2 points: ((753 + .0968*AP) * 8) damage every 2s over 16 sec.
3 points: ((1073 + .1452*AP * 8) damage every 2s over 16 sec.
4 points: ((1393 + .1936*AP * 8) damage every 2s over 16 sec.
5 points: ((1713 + .2420*AP * 8) damage every 2s over 16 sec.

• Hamlet · 10/05/12, 3:41 PM

A ballpark is fine really, I'm probably not doing a whole detailed model of this. Although anything exact you have handy when you get home would still be interesting.

We can't actually cast Rip as balance spec, just Rake, Mangle, FB, Swipe, Maim, and Pounce.

So questions
1) FB will do double that if I spend 50 energy right?
2) All physical damage that's not a bleed (so anything that's not Rake) is reduced by 30% or so by boss armor?
3) Is there still some interaction where Rake buffs Mangle or vice versa or something like that?
4) So each non-crit white hit should be (weaponDPS + AP/14), before armor?