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Old 11/02/12, 10:50 AM   #16
thefool808
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
Ysera
On fights where we're using FR over SD, it should be glyphed if you are doing less than 28.6% of your total healing with FR.

total healing = t, FR healing percent = p

t*p = (t - t*p)*.4
p = .4 - .4p
1.4p = .4
p = .4/1.4

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Old 11/05/12, 4:15 PM   #17
Quincunx
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Aggramar
Theetova, I just gave your spreadsheet a bit of a once over, and I had a couple of stat weight questions.

Is there a typo in AGI.B1? It seems to be referencing the Agi/Crit ratio from the first page, not the Agi/Dodge.

The mastery stat weight is derived from the dodge stat weight. Is this saying that 1% more dodge = 1% more mastery? These should not be equal, since going from 42% reduction to 43% reduction is not relatively the same as going from 60% reduction to 61% reduction. I believe this is shortchanging Mastery.

Are all of the rage generation stats weighed by converting them to dodge via Savage Defense?

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Old 11/09/12, 12:47 PM   #18
TheeTova
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Black Dragonflight
On the agi tab I do reference the stat weight from the Results tab and times that but agi needed per dodge. That is then combined with the stat weight agi gets from providing crit. Should be right.

Could you elaborate on how 42% to 43% less damage is different percentage wise that 60% to 61%. If get hit for 100 have 42 to 43 reduces the damage by 1 and 60 to 61 reduce the dam by one relatively.

Lastly yeah, everything is around this RPS thing and dodge is worked out from SD.


Thanks thefool808, I'm going to incorporate that into the sheet!

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Old 11/09/12, 12:50 PM   #19
TheeTova
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Black Dragonflight
How as well thefool808, I'm going to go one step further and incorporate your uptime on glyphed FR based on RPS!

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Old 11/09/12, 12:55 PM   #20
TheeTova
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Black Dragonflight
% - Percent FR Uptime from RPS)

t*p = (t - t*p)*(.4*%)
p = (.4*%) - .4p
1.4p = (.4*%)
p = (.4*%)/1.4

That look right?

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Old 11/09/12, 1:10 PM   #21
TheeTova
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Black Dragonflight
Here's the full write up, thanks everyone

Must Tova: Glyph or Unglyphed FR, That Is The Question

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Old 11/09/12, 3:40 PM   #22
thefool808
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Druid
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by TheeTova View Post
On the agi tab I do reference the stat weight from the Results tab and times that but agi needed per dodge. That is then combined with the stat weight agi gets from providing crit. Should be right.

Could you elaborate on how 42% to 43% less damage is different percentage wise that 60% to 61%. If get hit for 100 have 42 to 43 reduces the damage by 1 and 60 to 61 reduce the dam by one relatively.
The glyphed SD stuff looks good.

I think Quincunx is right about Agi!B1. It's divided by Results!G15 which is Agi per crit, whereas Results!G16 looks like the correct cell (Agi per dodge). Another way to look at it is both Agi!B1 and Agi!B4 are divided by the same cell. With the change, Agi goes up some, but it doesn't seem to change any gemming choices.

Also, I think what Quincunx is saying is that when the damage is reduced from 61 to 60, that's 1/61 (1.6%) damage reduction, but when the damage is reduced from 40 to 39, that's a 1/40 (2.5%) reduction. At least that's what I think is going on, but I've been looking at it a while and am still confused if it applies to the spreadsheet. It seems to me that any increase in total avoidance can be considered equal independent of its source (whether that be dodge or armor).

Anyways, I think it would be interesting to look at no-dodge, worst case scenario up to some certain "effective health" cap, and then look at normal-case, average dodge past that. Hopefully while also including the percent damage that is mitigatable. Then we could even include stamina in the mix.

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Old 11/09/12, 3:45 PM   #23
TheeTova
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Black Dragonflight
Thanks, updated to Result!G16. Agi jumped huge, still not quite better than crit. Much appreciated.
To me that was push we needed to get Dancing Steel to be the better enchant imo.

Definitely going to do some more napkin math on the dodge armour stuff.

Last edited by TheeTova : 11/09/12 at 3:50 PM.

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Old 11/09/12, 3:57 PM   #24
TheeTova
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Black Dragonflight
Initial thoughts:

Say right now I take 100dps

What will reduce my damage to 99dps?

1% more dodge
1% more reduction in damage.

It's more of a snapshot at where you are right now. I could have 10% dodge and 12k armour that reduce my damage take by say 10%

Really my incoming dps is much higher than 100dps all I want to know is how to take 1% less.

With how I have it now I use the armour equation and rating per dodge or rating to get enough armour for 1% less damage.

In conclusion, I'm working more of at a snap shot from where you are based on the stat you put in. This is just my initial thoughts and how I set it up. Where to go from here is the open discussion.

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Old 11/09/12, 4:21 PM   #25
Quincunx
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by TheeTova View Post
Could you elaborate on how 42% to 43% less damage is different percentage wise that 60% to 61%. If get hit for 100 have 42 to 43 reduces the damage by 1 and 60 to 61 reduce the dam by one relatively.
Sure, lets borrow numbers from the sheet and round them because I like round numbers.

Testbear has 42% dodge (counting savage defense as 30%) and 60% armor reduction. Let's say a boss takes 100 swings at him with 225K raw damage. 58 of those swings hit, and he takes 40% of that 225K (90000) each time for a total of 5.22M taken.

Give Testbear 43% dodge. 57 swings hit, and the same 90K a hit, he takes 5.13M.

Give Testbear 42% dodge again, but now he takes 39% of each 225K hit (87750) each time. 58 swings hit, and so total he takes 5.09M, which is a greater damage reduction than he got by adding 1% dodge.


Since one can't convert rage to dodge any more than by keeping 67% uptime on SD, I wonder if a different set of stat weights between rage stats and defensive stats would apply once you have enough rage to keep SD on cooldown. Something along the lines of a softcap, although for rage generation taken as a whole rather than any individual stat.

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Old 11/09/12, 4:40 PM   #26
TheeTova
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Black Dragonflight
What I think needs to happen is on the armour tab we have to apply it to the unmitigated damage calculated on results and adjust it for current dodge.

This I can do.

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Old 11/09/12, 4:52 PM   #27
TheeTova
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Black Dragonflight
Take a quick look at the Armor tab, It basically works out to the same for 93 mobs

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Old 11/22/12, 2:07 PM   #28
Knowme
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Gorgonnash (EU)
Just questioning why iam doing so less dmg with HotW.

Fight: Zor'lok 25 Heroic

Weapon Spirit Kings Heroic (Staff of trembling Will) + Agi Potion. Not Using Bloodlust in this case.


Wrath Hit
MIN 140k
AVG 141k
MAX 167k

Wrath Crit
MIN 280k
AVG 290k
MAX 320k

(With Caster Weapon Staff of trembling Will) even less dmg =/ )

This should be more ? Am I missing something great oO


kind regards

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Old 12/09/12, 7:47 PM   #29
Xaeth
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Burning Steppes (EU)
Firstly, is there going to be a dedicated Guardian thread like there is a Feral-Cat thread for Mists? I'm not sure if I missed the memo but I was just wondering.
I don't have the time right now due to uni (exams) to do my own testing but has anyone actually tested full mastery reforge against full dodge reforge against full RPS reforge?
Had a look at the numbers/logs for how much damage they're taking?
I'd be very interested to see that, I'm currently full mastery reforged and liking it, I don't tend to use Savage Defence/Frenzied Regen on cooldown but either use FR reflexively or bank up some rage to chain ~20-30 seconds worth of solid 45% dodge for when I run out of my other cooldowns (this gives more flexibility to fight conditions). I know it's looking like going for more RPS appears to be better for our mitigation, but armor has been king for us bears for as long as I remember, it's only now that we can actually reforge to it.
Cheers

Last edited by Xaeth : 12/09/12 at 7:53 PM.

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Old 12/13/12, 4:03 PM   #30
TheeTova
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Black Dragonflight
Just finished doing up a BiS breakdown:

Guardian Druid BiS Items Breakdown

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