xyruul

Even with every boss dropping 2 tokens now, it's only a very short while before you accumulate two sets and can gem one for dps and one for tanking. In 2.4 with 3 tokens per boss there will be no excuse for gimping yourself on both rolls forever because you are too impatient to wait another couple weeks for a second set.
With the new armor updates today and the updated tanking compilation on the last page I threw everything into rawr with stam in mind and came out with 10% less avoidance or so then the other set but over 5k more health. For me personally upgrading with every single Sunwell item would yield a little over 2% more dodge and 3.5k more health while staying armor capped. Upgrading all my cat stuff is over 350 dps, I don't even think I'll bother with tanking upgrades till after dps this time around.

A potentially interesting note: my max hp with every buff and a nightmare seed is a little over 30k on live and 33.5k with full Sunwell.

 

• Falk

More two cents - to keep things in perspective, T6 was really... not very demanding on gear level. You could do Gurtogg with really non-optimized gear and you'd pull through as long as people took bloodboils correctly. As it is, gemming/enchanting for threat was amazing for farm raids, especially as mentioned you can swap between high threat tanking and dps with more or less the same gear.

Sunwell, on the other hand, looks to actually push gear requirements, and so far there doesn't seem to really be any offtanking role. Hyjal/BT had infernals, doomguards, the poor rogue on council, Akama (heh, don't hit me). Sunwell first two seems to demand an equal weightage on all the tanks. That's a major shift in paradigm, other than Gurtogg which was still anyway more of managing debuffs and getting tank swaps done correctly and healing the raid/fel rage rather coping with tank damage.

 

Tuhalu

You'll notice that my raid went with 7 healers in both cases I cited as well. I only made that comment because that really is how most of the highest DPS Teron parses happen. It's very easy to sub players in/out in Hyjal/BT due to the design of those dungeons, resulting in a net gain in clear times and loot going to the right people. It's really a discussion for a totally different thread though.

 

Benita

2 of 5 known encounters have tanking roles outside of MT, thats about the same ratio as it was in BT/hyjal. You are right about the pushing of gear requirements though, nothing you want to do in cat gear really.

 

Deavan

You can scratch Illidan off the list of untankable mobs.

...Though with WWS on the fritz, I have no way to prove it

Wow Web Stats Try #3 is the kill and a video is coming soon. With two prots tanking the flames you can just use an intervene rotation when he's casting shears.

 

Deltronzero

Quick question: what's the real value of being armor capped without the healer buff? This has come up a lot in making pure tank sets for Sunwell. Is it simply that you can't afford not being armor-capped for the potential times it falls off?

If so, does anyone have an idea how much of a fight it will be up on you? It obviously depends on # of priest and shaman healers in raid, and how many are bombing you with heals.

Even so... has anyone taken the time to observe this and have a ball park idea? Essentially, is it an unreasonable risk to be roughly 2-3k under the cap on a boss like Sathrovarr or Brutallus? Curious for the sake of set building. TY

 

Kilrock

fun thing about the Sunwell trading system now is.. You actually have to screw several people over to get your tanking gear. Example, to get the pants from vendor, the Immortal beast, you need to screw up every other rogues off AMAZING pants, which are also amazing pants for you to get them.. Kinda lame tho. (I guess it's about the same way as saying "hey i just took your t6 token (rogue/mage/druid)" lol...)

I mean, it's kinda like tokens in BT/hyjal, except now.. You need tanking gear or DPS gear, you have a way to trade them. Tokens are now dropping 3 times? 3 tokens per boss, but these pants will only drop once. It kinda feels shitty compared to times where you'd go "Alright, Mage rogue druid token has 3 chances to drop this time, i'll pass for him since he needs it more, i got 3 chances to get it again next time", it won't be like that with the upgrades in sunwell.. Food for thought i guess. (Leatherworking chest + gloves + Belt/Boots/Bracer + t6 Shoulders for me tho, so it's not like i'll screw anyone that "much" trying to get the best dps gear)

With sunwell, Every piece, i mean EVERY SINGLE piece of tanking upgrade is better than t6.. Gloves (2 socket), Helm (more dodge and stamina), Chest (better stats again), Pants (they blow t6 out of the water)... And with the belt,bracer and belt tokens, you'd only have to what.. Keep shoulders for 4 set? Since the shoulders are the worse upgrade tanking wise for sunwell...

I'm not even at the point you're at gear wise. Pretty sure your dps gear is pretty much complete since i think i've seen some pretty impressive Teron gorefiend WWS about you. My tank gear is pretty much going to be full t6 next patch due to getting upgrade for DPS and the t6 for DPS (Currently) going to tank as i replace them (chest/gloves/pants).

 

dukes

"Untankable" = "Not sensibly tankable". Sure, you can tank both RoS and Illidan as a feral, but it's hardly the most sensible thing to do in the grand scheme of things, although something perfectly reasonable to do if you're getting bored with the content and you're significantly overgeared (oh hi 9 month content gap).

 

Pzychotix

Does Judgment of Wisdom proc while in feral forms? My raid keeps a ret pally nowadays, and I'm looking to powershift more aggressively, so it's nice to know if JoW works there. The reason I ask is because it doesn't show up as a gain while in cat form.

 

• Daboran

Obviously the closer you get to the cap the less it matters if the buff drops off, but the main thing for me is that the proc is random - anything that eliminates that randomness is a good thing. As you say - there are side issues such as how much crit your Priest/Shaman(s) have and whether they have specced into that talent in the first place (although I don't know a great deal about Priest specs, I'm pretty sure that not all of mine have the talent). Also the proc is necessarily going to trigger more often off fast heals, which in the case of the Priests they are unlikely to be using when MT healing.

 

Melthar

JoW no longer works in catform, it did once upon a time pre-BC, but at this point in time, no.

On top of the previously posted values, the armour values on the (druid)badge gear have actually gone DOWN in the latest PTR build in some cases. (the rogue gear seems to have gone up ever so slightly)

Embrace of Everlasting Prowess: 711->696
Tameless Breaches: 667->654
Handwraps of the Aggressor: 448->473 (gone up, but still less AC than T4, a fair bit less than T6)

 

Tasonir

What is the risk that he'd hit you before the sheer finishes casting? Meaning, does he stop melee while casting sheer? Sheer is a 1.5 or 1 second cast?

Also, what kind of gear did you use for it? Stamina, avoidance? 68% avoidance does seem fairly high, but with a max hit of 7556 I imagine you're pretty close to the armor cap without inspiration. Maybe just include a list at the start/end of your video thanks.

 

◊ Regen

Can mages melee while halfway through a frostbolt cast? I would imagine full t6 / pendant of titans / shadowmoon+badge or moroes / standard armor rings / Natural power / den mother / pacification / badge bracers

Give or take anything for near equivilents.

It would be plain stupid to stack avoidance over stam if you are going to MT a boss, Given a fully geared bear would still be around 60% buffed dodge in full stam gear.

 

• Astrylian

Many bosses can melee while casting spells; it depends on the spell, so that's a very valid question. I don't know whether Shear is one of those spells.

Also, for bosses that don't hit exceptionally hard (pretty much everything up to Kaz'rogal or Teron, with the exception of Tidewalker), stacking avoidance is perfectly reasonable, because you can get enough survivability from raid buffs at that point.

 

◊ Regen

With actual cast times? Any examples off the top of your head

EDIT: RoS phase 2 maybe... even then I doubt it

 

• Astrylian

Tidewalker's Tidalwave. VR's arcane PBAoE. I think Maulgar's Slam thingie. Karathress's Totem... Several of Malacrass's spells. I think the Infernal cast by Anatheron.

There are examples that players use too: engineering bombs. You can move and auto-attack while throwing bombs.

 

◊ Regen

I'm honestly still in doubt and would love to see actual combat logs === I guess If I end up doing any of those soon I'll check for myself. Im 90% confident Anetheron does not melee while casting, but again I'll check for myself this week

 

• Astrylian

Yah, I'm not posative about all of those. VR, Malacrass, and Tidewalker are the 3 I'm really sure of.

EDIT: I know because I've tried to be all cool and innervate or rez people while they were casting... and failed.

 

Akhtal

This is totally the type of things I do very often...

 

• Chicken

The Rain of Chaos spells used by various mobs throughout the world can also be cast while the mob is auto-attacking.

I don't think Shear is one of those abilities though, otherwise with Illidan being a dual wielder it'd happen a lot more that Shield Block got pushed off before Shear hits a Warrior tank.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Anedris

Aran melees while casting flame wreath and blizzard (but does not melee while casting fireball, frostbolt, or AM). Anzu melees while casting paralysing screech.

(Just two examples from the top of my head.)

I suspect Chicken is probably right about Illidan though.

 

Sadirin

mmo-champion.com has the updated armor values for T6, the badge equipment and sunwell loot. While sunwell, the badge hands and T6 has gone up, the armor for the badge chest and pants has gone down.

 

Stigmata

I have a question about gemming, from the first post it says to gem gear with 10 agility gems, which seems quite obvious for the extra avoidance and the DPS benefits when using the same items.

But from a purely tanking perspective with the upcoming sunwell bosses, is this style of gemming still applicable? I have read about bosses hitting exceptionally hard and also noticed some people commenting on having 25-30k hp. (which I am well short of)

Oh and Hi Dukes!

 

charriu

This question has already been discussed like 3 times in this thread. Just go some pages back... In short: stamina over agility because some of the bosses have "countermeasures" against high avoidance builds.

 

Merple

This might be an odd question, but if my druid is short of the armour cap, is there any reason not to be use stoneshields on cooldown for progression content?

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