Feral Megathread - Page 113

zimira · 03/29/08, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Draugdae

Regarding Fire Resist for Heroic Kael, I put on 280ish FR and did not observe a single resist on the fireballs. It may help for phoenixes and flamestrikes, but that's avoidable damage anyway.

I put on my flame tanking gear for it so i guess i was around 300 FR. Also didnt get a single resist on the fireballs. I actually whent after the phoenix to see if it was affected by FR and atleast the phoenix AoE was partly resisted. Probably just gonna use cat gear with some high stamina tank items swapped in next time

Phorage · 03/29/08, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Nopher

That's pretty much what I used except for having s3 gloves, a stam trinket over Moroes and Pillar over Wildfury. I also preemptively used the badge and popped a seed before taunting. If I were you I wouldn't worry that much about threat, our prot Warrior had a very gimped spec threat-wise and we did just fine.

Have the same experience and basically the same gear. We were close but didnt kill him yet. My gear stands for the damage but its heavy of course. I use T6 bracers and Shadowmoon + Moroes (no luck with Princess Delrissa so far) and I use them one at a time at every armor debuff. Without mentioning too much I can say that barkskin definitely is useful in this fight.

I also use Pillar.

Cowazon · 03/29/08, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Daboran

My dilemma is that this is pretty low on +hit/expertise - I was thinking of using [Brooch of Deftness] and enchanting the cloak with +def to maintain uncrittable.
Also maybe wear a high +sta trinket instead of Moroes? I'd dearly like to get more threat as well, but don't want to compromise my survivability.
Any other suggestions?

If you have it, I would definitely suggest Pillar over Wildfury because of the extra stam. Same thing would probably apply for stam trinket over Moroes' one. Those two changes can get you a huge chunk of extra HP's, while losing a relatively small amount of avoidance.

Brooch of Deftness would definitely be a good choice, and you can make up for the loss in defense in a few ways. I don't know if you're already doing this or not, but instead of taking Fort Flasks like many tanks do, pop Agi and Ironskin elixirs every attempt. This adds some solid points of avoidance via the dodge, on top of giving you a lot of resilience, which results in you having a lot more stam because you can afford to drop some +def items in favour of stam. Depending on exactly how much defense you have over the uncrrittable point, you may be able to get away with switching out your neck and changing your cloak enchant to Steelweave (+12 def).

The hit/expertise/agility/crit you gain from that setup should help a lot with maintaining high threat, while keeping your mitigation and overall survivability high enough to cope with the damage you're taking.

bluenote · 03/29/08, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by Cowazon

If you have it, I would definitely suggest Pillar over Wildfury because of the extra stam. Same thing would probably apply for stam trinket over Moroes' one. Those two changes can get you a huge chunk of extra HP's, while losing a relatively small amount of avoidance.

Brooch of Deftness would definitely be a good choice, and you can make up for the loss in defense in a few ways. I don't know if you're already doing this or not, but instead of taking Fort Flasks like many tanks do, pop Agi and Ironskin elixirs every attempt. This adds some solid points of avoidance via the dodge, on top of giving you a lot of resilience, which results in you having a lot more stam because you can afford to drop some +def items in favour of stam. Depending on exactly how much defense you have over the uncrrittable point, you may be able to get away with switching out your neck and changing your cloak enchant to Steelweave (+12 def).

The hit/expertise/agility/crit you gain from that setup should help a lot with maintaining high threat, while keeping your mitigation and overall survivability high enough to cope with the damage you're taking.

I am using th expertise/hit neck and went with vindicator bracers, just hoping to get revered tonight so I can get that new helm enchant, I'll be crit immune and around 17.6k hp unbuffed

Goedel · 03/29/08, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by Cowazon

If you have it, I would definitely suggest Pillar over Wildfury because of the extra stam. Same thing would probably apply for stam trinket over Moroes' one. Those two changes can get you a huge chunk of extra HP's, while losing a relatively small amount of avoidance.

[Commendation of Kael'thas] over [Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch]: relatively small avoidance lost for the health gained, yes. But [Pillar of Ferocity] over [Wildfury Greatstaff]: relatively large avoidance lost for the health gained. I'd simply repeat what I said about that tradeoff earlier; that is, of all the options one has for trading avoidance for stamina, including gems and enchantments, this is not the most efficient but may still be worthwhile, especially considering that swapping weapons is a lot easier than swapping between two sets of t6 gear.

• Cluey · 03/29/08, 3:44 PM

Well after my massive post before I have now had a horrible heroic Magisters Terrace run.
Group makeup changed to enhance shaman, fury warrior, mage, a tree healing and me tanking.
We had no end of problems with me dieing to burst spell damage or the mage getting in trouble casting Polymorph and the healer pulling them off me before I could get threat.
The difference the rogue makes it now quite obvious to me, stunning the casters and having Cloak of Shadows to help the healer out and Sap felt more useful than Polymorph.

I changed gear around for more stamina and used Barkskin on most pulls, it was completely different from the first few runs.
We still finished it but it was ugly, I really dislike the 20 yard range on Cyclone as I can't cast it on the mob I want as I am limited to the one in range. Very frustrating.

Tasonir · 03/29/08, 5:15 PM

I don't think this has been mentioned yet. Heroic Kael's fireballs may hit for 5k, but it's really not bad when you aren't taking many of them at all. They can be interrupted. Bring a rogue, sap is handy CC and kick will make it so that the only thing that may be dangerous in the entire fight is pyroblast.

The first time I killed kael on heroic, I was pyroblasted and killed, but without needing a tank in phase 2, the group killed him just fine.

Also, for pulling him I tend to run into body pull range, back out a step, and then feral charge. No initial fireball this way.

Aranan · 03/30/08, 1:24 AM

Originally Posted by Tasonir

Also, for pulling him I tend to run into body pull range, back out a step, and then feral charge. No initial fireball this way.

I've been opening with wrath, then shifting to bear and charging. A little bit of extra threat doesn't hurt. Plus, I've noticed that if wrath crits I get 5 rage!

Rathyr · 03/30/08, 1:25 AM

Anyone else had some fun playing around with what their end DPS sets are going to look like?

Trying to plan out the DPS set I will end up with is turning out rather interesting... Obviously keepiong 4pc T6 (3 new pieces + shoulders)... Now you have to either go 4 pieces 6.5 or use 2pc T4. Even with the craziest items out there (Guise, crafted gloves, rogue legs and Sun/Shadow crafted chest), T4 is pretty much neck and neck all the way through. That (still) kind of scares me, I had hoped we would finally see it go back to the bank. I seriously might end up just using the helm/chest and get my choice picks of other items.

Only problem is I have Cursed Vision and will probably have the first LWering chest that drops... Seems to wrong to use T4 items over those awesome pieces.

• Falk · 03/30/08, 3:33 AM

Whenever a proc comes out to the same spreadsheet DPS value as other items, the other items are obviously going to be more reliable. Not to mention the recurring problem of energy overflow from T4 procs and OOC.

You might want to look back a few pages... I think a couple of other people have come up with lists.

Agilurso · 03/30/08, 5:05 AM

Originally Posted by Tyjet

oh god yes, why has it taken this long to get such a decent macro for this job?
I've adapted it for cat form powershifting, as it is also very annoying when you try to powershift during a global cooldown and end up standing at the boss hitting with your staff for a few seconds. Not tested it with cat form yet though, at work.

/script local gcd=GetSpellCooldown("Cat Form"); if gcd==0 then CancelPlayerBuff("Cat Form") end;
/cast [nostance] Cat Form

Should work yes?

Obviously the !Cat Form works best for powershifting, but I thought this guy had a great idea, so I tweaked it a little.

Basically, it ends up just being just as fast as a powershift, but with a nice added benefit.

#Show Haste Potion
/script local D="Cat Form"; D=GetSpellCooldown(D)>0 or CancelPlayerBuff(D);
/stopmacro [stance:3]
/use Haste Potion
/cast !Cat Form

Ugljesa · 03/30/08, 3:47 PM

I'm sure this has been mentioned on a few posts, but I found the search a bit hard to define so apologies if it's a washed over question.
I'm interested, how good/important is expertise for tanking. Would you suggest a minimum of x? Or is it "take if it's on an item, otherwise no big deal"? It's a bit of a tricky stat to understand (at least to me) so I figured I'd ask here

.
If there are specific threads with this question, a link would do as an answer

Thanks in advance
PS
Fantastic thread, got it on Favourites for quick checks

Boevis · 03/30/08, 8:20 PM

Like every other stat, it's useful sometimes, but not all the time. It depends completely on what you are doing.

It has been mentioned multiple times before, because of it's parry reduction, it's mediocre for reducing overall incoming damage, but pretty good for reducing incoming burst. If you're already armor capped, with 50%+ dodge and 20k+ health, getting expertise from an item that doesn't suck for tanking ([Earthwarden][Brooch of Deftness]) can help reducing your incoming damage quite a bit with a combined 2.75% parry reduction (and dodge). When looking at burst damage, double Crushing Parry hits are actually worse than being Critable with 0% Parry on the boss (based on likelihood of heals in between hits assuming a Crit from 100% health is survivable)

seminarca · 03/30/08, 8:50 PM

[Shard of Contempt] is definitely worthy of a mention, depending on the encounter and what exactly you use your trinket slots for. I've been experimenting with it in various gear sets in Magister's Terrace, ZA, Mag/Gruul pugs and on Sunwell trash with very favorable results. Shard plus Brooch nets you ~9.4% frontal avoidance reduction (4% each of dodge and parry and 1.4% hit) which is absolutely phenomenal from just 2 slots!

bluenote · 03/31/08, 1:10 AM

Originally Posted by Inaiwae

I expect 99% of feral druids to either tank or sit out on Brutallus, but i am curious if ferals can be used as dps there without gimping the raid. I'd like to try it myself but i will (hopefully) have to tank.

Boss has 10M hp, 6min enrage, if raid is 3/8/16 then it's cca 1800 per dps to bring him down. So far my best dps result was 1350dps on Teron (tank group, 1 heroism, fight took 3'45'').

If anyone tried it, or has some thoughts, let us know :-).

Brutallus has butt load of armor, and my best is 1487 on Teron (0 armor), to be honest I don't even see myself breaking 1500 on Brutallus.

Originally Posted by seminarca

[Shard of Contempt] is definitely worthy of a mention, depending on the encounter and what exactly you use your trinket slots for. I've been experimenting with it in various gear sets in Magister's Terrace, ZA, Mag/Gruul pugs and on Sunwell trash with very favorable results. Shard plus Brooch nets you ~9.4% frontal avoidance reduction (4% each of dodge and parry and 1.4% hit) which is absolutely phenomenal from just 2 slots!

Amazing trinket, I am using it for raid dps and tanking trash/5-mans and probably 10-mans, but I just can't use that for tanking Sunwell, just got to have the stam/dodge trinket for avoidance. I couldn't believe how fast Sathrovarr the Corruptor dropped me from 25K health raid buffed, I was just...speechless.

Sandyr · 03/31/08, 1:52 AM

I spent my first real night on Brutallus tonight. My guild often uses two ferals: I'm usually the one DPSing. Granted, tonight we spent a lot of time learning the encounter, and never got any very good attempts, but because of Brutallus's retarded armor count, I barely managed to break 1.4k dps (in the hunter group, no shaman or bshout). How are you other ferals fairing on Brutallus in the DPS role?

bluenote · 03/31/08, 2:20 AM

Originally Posted by Sandyr

I spent my first real night on Brutallus tonight. My guild often uses two ferals: I'm usually the one DPSing. Granted, tonight we spent a lot of time learning the encounter, and never got any very good attempts, but because of Brutallus's retarded armor count, I barely managed to break 1.4k dps (in the hunter group, no shaman or bshout). How are you other ferals fairing on Brutallus in the DPS role?

Given we have 2 prot war and 2 ferals, probably in group 6 with other tank

• Falk · 03/31/08, 4:51 AM

Considering Rip completely ignores armor, and armor penetration is less effective the more armor a boss has (and Rogue gear has this stacked much more), I'd say the penalty is proportionally less for cat than a rogue.

That being said though, Brutallus is tuned so tight that I really don't see how feral DPS can fit in. That's just my own opinion and probably skewed by my own raid composition, of course.

spartakos · 03/31/08, 4:52 AM

I prefer to see the cup half full than half empty.
I still have to find a WWS where the warrior tank gets less average and max damage than his feral tank tank buddy.

Vaccine · 03/31/08, 5:39 AM

Originally Posted by Sandyr

I spent my first real night on Brutallus tonight. My guild often uses two ferals: I'm usually the one DPSing. Granted, tonight we spent a lot of time learning the encounter, and never got any very good attempts, but because of Brutallus's retarded armor count, I barely managed to break 1.4k dps (in the hunter group, no shaman or bshout). How are you other ferals fairing on Brutallus in the DPS role?

I don't really see a reason to bring Feral DPS to this fight given the DPS constraints to be honest. I've tanked it for two nights and we should down him on Tuesday when we go back.

Phorage · 03/31/08, 7:09 AM

Originally Posted by spartakos

I prefer to see the cup half full than half empty.
I still have to find a WWS where the warrior tank gets less average and max damage than his feral tank tank buddy.

Not exactly an answer but:

We killed Brutallus last night (me and prot warrior tanking) and I noticed some interesting facts. When we wiped due to tank death it was always, always the prot warrior dying (we have equal gear). Looking on meters for the kill I actually took more damage. But it was easier to heal, obviously. If there is one fight in the game at the moment where feral tanking is shining, it really is Brutallus.

Inaiwae · 03/31/08, 10:28 AM

To druids who tank / intend to tank Brutallus, what are your unbuffed (without MotW) stats? I am curious if mine are comparable to other high-end tanks. We will try him soon, i switched agility for stamina, and i am not sure if my dodge is not way too low.

Mine are: 35500 armor, 18000hp, 40.6% dodge

• Falk · 03/31/08, 11:01 AM

I'd say that's more than enough.

At this point there are different reports from different guilds and I think it really depends a lot on what mitigation factors there are in a raid (Shadow Embrace, for example, is huge) as well as how the druids/warriors gear/gem and even the type of healers on the tank (Armor buffs anyone?).

For us, I took overall 10%-15% more damage than the warrior tank (and a whopping ~36% more on the kill attempt... wtb better dice) but the warrior exploded a lot more.

For warriors there seem to be two trains of thought - massively stacking avoidance to 'defeat' Sunwell Radiance (personally I don't see how it works, but it apparently... does?) or stacking a lot of stam. For druids though, I'd say still go for stamina and mitigation. We get to take more hits on average than a warrior and still survive. In the days of massive spirit regen and shadow priests, I don't think healing a tank that takes more damage overall is even an issue.

• Daboran · 03/31/08, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Inaiwae

To druids who tank / intend to tank Brutallus, what are your unbuffed (without MotW) stats? I am curious if mine are comparable to other high-end tanks. We will try him soon, i switched agility for stamina, and i am not sure if my dodge is not way too low.

Mine are: 35500 armor, 18000hp, 40.6% dodge

I can check later, but I believe that's about where I am too - see my post a few pages back about my proposed gear.

Remember that if your raid group composition will stand it you can afford to be slightly below the armor cap and rely on Devotion Aura to get you there, which allows you to gear slots with less armor and more dodge.

elvensnow · 03/31/08, 11:36 AM

I was wondering about the Idol of Feral Shadows now in 2.4. I know there was some speculation earlier in the thread but I haven't seen any real evidence backing which is better, Feral Shadows or Everbloom.

According to Rawr, without any raid buffs on other than MOTW and FF, FS is a winner. And when I add debuffs like Sunder, EB comes ahead. Now, this makes sense because of armor penetration, however I was thinking through the math and just not seeing it.

Again according to Rawr, I have approx 35% crit, and shred an average of 2.2 times per 12.8s cycle.

So using these stats, for EB idol we have:
88 dmg * 2.2 shreds * 1.35 crit * 1.3 mangle * 0.6 from mob damage reduction = 203 added damage per cycle.

For the FS idol we have:
4 CP * 4 ticks * 7 dmg per tick * 1.3 mangle = 145.6 added damage per cycle.
And for 5 CP it is 182 added damage.

So it seems to me that neither CP for the FS idol can outpace the EB. Please correct my math if it's wrong -- I'm not entirely sure about the real mechanics at play here. But for the EB idol calculation I was not even factoring in better raid buffs or more armor penetration at all, and it still looks to me like it wins on damage. And yet Rawr tells me that the FS is better. Is there something I'm missing?