Ok, pot macro versus Ironshield potion on Brutallus. After 1 day tries i think the former. Also the inspiration buff is really something you cant miss even for a second. Especially warriors.
I will do my 1st try on him tonight, but i was thinking about it and i decided that ironshield is the way to go. With the fact that we can pot on GCD only and with the insane dmg you are taking, i'd say that pot macro wont save you anyway. Why do you think pot macro is better than ironshield?
In my experience the Pot/HS macro was too insubstantial an amount to worry with and the added need of it to be outside GCD makes it a bit of a pain. You receive so much overhealing it is very doubtful that you'll be able to time the pot to full effect anyway. The extra mitigation through each stomp is far more effective in my opinion.
It is hard to mess up on this fight as a tank. You are basically just waiting for your healers to get their act together and work out the tank transistions and that they can time their heals to land shortly after stomp.
Originally Posted by Shadowed
The best part is, not only were you late in linking it, that's an April fools topic from 6 months ago.
The Pot Macro has about the same problem as CDs from a warrior - they are not much use there. Spike happen so instantly you have very little time to react if at all. 5k Stomp/9k MH/4k OH is a 18k Spike you might get and you can't Pot every time you get to 18k, can you ?
I'm wearing Shadowmoon Insignia on this fight and i use i everytime Stomp is up if i can. I only can advise you to use your cooldown preventively, too. Reaction to spikes seems just impossible here.
Lacerate. This is for tanking one mob in a low damage/high armour situation (i.e. the mob has high armour or you're doing low damage to it because of lack of buffs or similar). The bleed part of lacerate is of almost no impact on threat. Lacerating just to keep up 5 stacks is not worth it.
i'm in 4/5 t6, do you think it can be a good idea to use lacerate and swipe? Because whithout a lot of expertise, i find my threat generation sometime very low if i use only mangle+swipe and sometime maul.
I was wondering is such a macro can be a good idea:
Vaccine summed up everything pretty well. When I'm not tanking I go cat form and put out a little of dps. Then 1 second before the 3rd meteorlash I'll pop barkskin and bear form and wait for it. While I am tanking, I do not worry about o-crap buttons at all (on our first kill I used Moroes+ Shadowmoon, I'll pop a trinket no matter what during stomp) and go balls on threat. I believe I was doing between 1300-1400 TPS, although there are times as low as 900 due to avoidance from Brutallus.
Since then I have replaced Moroes with CoK, which will allow me to forget one clicky. Using Ironshield as well as max-ing armor will come a long way during stomp even if it is "wasted stat" during normal phase, because it won't be normal phase that wipes your raid.
I tried several things for brutallus tanking but to summarize..
Maxing stam. Overall it works but i was getting hit a lot and dipping low even on non stomp. Healer mana can suffer a lot from this.
Maxing dodge. I got annihilated.
Balance of the two. We won with this.
I usually tank with band of the abbysal lord, shadowmoon insignia and moroes but went with CoK, badge of tenacity, and Ring of Unyielding Force for this one.
You just can't stack enough dodge to make his mh,oh,mh,oh combo be a fluke. During a stomp thats around 25k dmg in 1 second.
Shadowmoon insignia imho is terrible for tanking brutallus a 1750 heal is just not enough of an oh shit button. Commendation alone is exactly 1k hp for a tauren druid with kings and thats active 100% of the time with a very nice buff for when you get low from stomp->mh/oh.
Conclusion: armor, ironshields, barkskin and nightmare seeds are your best friend.
FYI to all cats out there: [Shard of Contempt]. Get it. It's *huge*. Rawr b12.1 includes it, but undervalues it somewhat. Edit it and change it from 80ap to 90ap for a better representation. Depending on gear, it's most likely the #2 trinket in the game for cats, quite possibly even surpassing DST for some.
Only semi-belongs here, but I've been helping rogues run Magister's for it, so my 'queue' length is pretty high. On the bright side, like Commendation it's on a 1-day cooldown.
Originally Posted by Daboran
Casting Barkskin 1 sec before Meteor - with GCD does this allow you enough time to go Bearform and taunt?
You don't -have- to taunt immediately after a meteor - The only significant reason you'd want to is so that in case of a resist, its cooldown will finish a second before the next meteor (and even then it's cutting it pretty slim - Challenging Roar is a better clutch) hits.
I believe Brutallus has an abysmally low taunt resist rate (and for good reason, considering the mechanics of the fight). I've been skimping +hit on gear, especially with how I gemmed for Brutallus, but I've never gotten one, and only otherwise seen one resist total. It wouldn't surprise me if it got dropped to the minimum possible (1% innate, unavoidable resist). Don't quote me on that, though.
Originally Posted by Malazaar
From personal experience, let me tell you that avoidance is just not reliable on Brutallus. I often got hit like 20 times in a row with 70 % avoidance (still 45 % after Sunwell Radiance). In case you DO dodge, it is usually overhealed anyway.
Your Healers are not gonna get oom on you even if you don't dodge often. The real problem is you getting yourself killed. Plan for Stomp to be the problem and stack armor and stamina. I tanked him with a bit shy of 40k armor and 25.5k hitpoints and it was a real smooth ride.
There are similar problems with dodge for kalecgos too (stuns) and even though i didn't thank felmyst yet i suspect you'd be better off staking stamina there, too (due to spikes).
Yeah, your experience and thoughts match mine, regardless of the avoidance counterargument I brought up. Also, wtb 5% more hp. :/
Other than that:
- The Stomp/transition intersections, assuming your strategy is tanking through stomp, occurs roughly between 3:00 and 4:00 of the fight. This is when you'd want your cooldowns, if you have any, to be up. In our experience taunting off stomp was -more- deadly, not less, than when they were desynced (Especially for the stomped tank since some people switch off to pre-cast on the new tank). Depending on healer strategy, YMMV.
- One buff I completely overlooked initially was [Adamantite Weightstone]. Sure only it's a small boost, but considering the cost of all the other shit thrown at the encounter PER ATTEMPT, every little bit helps. :P
- If running 1War/1Feral for tanks, consider always being the opening tank for Brutallus. This means the fight ends with Brutallus on the warrior assuming 6:00.
- If it looks like it's going to be close, RUN FOR THE HILLS at 5:50. Brutallus will take a few seconds to come after you and might even stop to Meteor Slash on the way. This will keep every single DPSer alive for those few seconds, which is better than him chewing through people the moment berserk hits.
Hi guys, I am feral(or I wouldnt be posting here) and our guild is currently in kara and beginning gruul. Far from sunwell as I have read plenty of you are at.
Given that theres 115 previous pages this has probably been answered before, but here goes.
I am trying to decide which bear form weapon I should farm for,Feral Staff of Lashing, or Earthwarden, as we team with a second guild for gruuls I am sure we wont be in SSC for the Wildfury Greatstaff for a while. Either way I would plan to have +35 agi enchant to it. Mostly I am looking to see if the 200less armor but more stats on feral staff is better than the Equip buffs from earthwarden which I did read on the main page that the expertise is a plus.I apologize if the links to thott dont work. Feral Staff of Lashing Earthwarden
I logged out in bear on my armory page so hopefully that will make things easier. I am our only MT/OT feral druid and I dont really know if I am near where I should be for our guilds progression..
I realize this is a bit of an opinionated question but to me it seems reasonable.
Thanks for your help
Last edited by Renovatio : 04/01/08 at 12:43 PM.
Reason: Linked to wowhead, thx for the tip
Hi guys, I am feral(or I wouldnt be posting here) and our guild is currently in kara and beginning gruul. Far from sunwell as I have read plenty of you are at.
Given that theres 115 previous pages this has probably been answered before, but here goes.
I am trying to decide which bear form weapon I should farm for, Feral Staff of Lashing, or Earthwarden, as we team with a second guild for gruuls I am sure we wont be in SSC for the Wildfury Greatstaff for a while. Either way I would plan to have +35 agi enchant to it. Mostly I am looking to see if the 200less armor but more stats on feral staff is better than the Equip buffs from earthwarden which I did read on the main page that the expertise is a plus.I apologize if the links to thott dont work.
How about doing Underbog Heroic for CE rep? On the Way the [Greatstaff of the Leviathan] might drop. If it doesn't, you'll still have gotten some more reputation towards [Earthwarden], at least that's what I did.
How about doing Underbog Heroic for CE rep? On the Way the [Greatstaff of the Leviathan] might drop. If it doesn't, you'll still have gotten some more reputation towards [Earthwarden], at least that's what I did.
I don't see how [Greatstaff of the Leviathan] is an upgrade over much of anything. [Braxxis' Staff of Slumber] beats it in terms of mitigation, and his Illhoof staff is better for aggro generation. The greatstaff seems like a staff that fails at striking a middle balance.
Really glad to hear Brutallus isn't resisting many taunts, there are so very few best in- slot items with hit on them.
What sacrafices are people making in general to get hit on gear for Kalecgos etc?
Socket wise 10 hit = 15 sta, so using 20 hit food over 30 sta is like replacing two sockets for one fight, but you keep the sta ones the rest of the time. [Pattern: Boots of Natural Grace]+ surefooted over [Treads of the Den Mother]+ 12 sta looks like a fairly decent swap: 24 hit vs 22 sta and 42 caster armour. [Waistguard of the Great Beast] with 20 hit gems over [Pattern: Belt of Natural Power] is 38 hit vs 38 sta and 56 caster armour.
Where else might it be good to get some hit rating in favour of sta/ mitigation?
Yer getting awfully close to discussing actual fight mechanics.
//edit: Ah - lifted since today for Brutallis and Kalecgos.
--
Renovatio - starts to look like something, but grind Exalted Aldor asap so you can drop that crappy trinket.
Consider the Heroic Badges Ring or the Mok'Nathal Clan Ring as well.
PvP belt and/or bracers and better enchants on boots + gloves wouldn't be a bad idea either. Or, now that Nethers can be bought for badges, consider the LW Belt of Natural Power. Similarly, the badge bracers aren't half bad either, though the PvP ones will get you some more crit immunity.
As to the Earthwarden vs Feral Staff of Lashing... Just farm the FSoL for badges while running Cen Exp instances for rep and even more badges.
Consider getting the s3 chestpiece or helm. Those would be a nice upgrade too.
I don't see how [Greatstaff of the Leviathan] is an upgrade over much of anything. [Braxxis' Staff of Slumber] beats it in terms of mitigation, and his Illhoof staff is better for aggro generation. The greatstaff seems like a staff that fails at striking a middle balance.
I just pointed that out, so he could actually find an upgrade while farming CE rep.
But you're right, times have changed. Back then The Botanica was a bit too hard for our gear, Earthwarden and Braxxis both lacked stamina at the time.
[Braxxis' Staff of Slumber] which usually shows up in the ah from time to time, should be the easiest, fast tanking upgrade right now.
Still though, no frequenter of these forums has DPS'd Brutallus and has a report to show for it? I'm looking to see howthe current bigshot feral druid dpsers are doing, and what their overall experience is.
Brutallus ain't the DPS benchmark for melee one would think he would be: he's got quite over average armor and you really see physical DPS suffer from it compared to the average Hyjal/BT Boss. I held 1780 low end up to 1900 tops average DPS on the different tries, this was with heavy powershifting, perfect cycle and manapots. Ironically at the end I just tanked because our Warriors were too squishy and we killed him a few tries later : Wow Web Stats On Teron I could easily hold 2100+.
As for tank stats I had 20.7k hp, 35k armor (mostly 44.5k with insp.) and 47.4% (Aura included) avoidance with trinkets while tanking him, never got under 5k HP as far as I remember (may upload video sometime). 2 tank tactic.
Hmmm... so far in the thread, we've seen massive stam stacking, massive avoidance stacking and a balance of the two all being legitimate ways to gear for this (Maybe for a bear at least, considering the extra margin vs burst we have). I think other than a lot of abstract number crunching, which is theoretical at best, the 'best' way to gear for Brutallus is going to remain something of a subjective issue. Final advice to throw on the table would be to know what kind of damage profile your gear setup will net you, and work with your healers on it.
I think I'm lost a bit over here so I thought I could probably ask. Currently I'm a feral druid with 5/5 T6 (all gem'd towards tanking), and for some reason my DPS gear has always been somehow lacking (like I pass to other DPS since it's their main role and such; most of the times I'm tanking and only DPSing when the boss doesn't require multiple tanks).
So, for some reason I'm always below Top 10 on DPS. So, for a month or a bit more I've been working on improving it so I'm still on it but I wanted to ask... what do we need to do to be positioned decently on damage done? What is the usual cycle we should do?
• Mangle, Shred and Ferocious Byte?
• Mangle, Shred and Rip?
I think I'm lost a bit over here so I thought I could probably ask. Currently I'm a feral druid with 5/5 T6 (all gem'd towards tanking), and for some reason my DPS gear has always been somehow lacking (like I pass to other DPS since it's their main role and such; most of the times I'm tanking and only DPSing when the boss doesn't require multiple tanks).
So, for some reason I'm always below Top 10 on DPS. So, for a month or a bit more I've been working on improving it so I'm still on it but I wanted to ask... what do we need to do to be positioned decently on damage done? What is the usual cycle we should do?
• Mangle, Shred and Ferocious Byte?
• Mangle, Shred and Rip?
Could someone enlighten me?
This is all in the first post, bud. Nevertheless:
- Mangle, Shred to 4/5 CP, wait for 70+ energy, Rip
- repeat ad nauseum (essentially, Mangle should only and immediately follow Rip, except at the start of combat)
- If your next move will put you below 10 or so energy, powershift immediately following that move
- Never ever ever use Ferocious Bite
- Try and keep FFF up if you're not doing anything else
Yeah, I try to keep FF up as much as possible (even when I'm tanking).
So probably one of my issues is the energy usage, and randomly using FB.
As for PowerShiting, I've read about it (and I should probably practice), but a couple of days ago I was talking with the GM and he was basically saying that it was crap, lol ;S
If you're a feral druid with 5/5 T6 and the rest of your guild is similarly geared, you should probably never be top 10 in dps (with the exception of fights like Reliquary where melee have a huge advantage). Cat dps is similar to shadow priests in that the top end of our dps will never match pure damage classes like rogues, warlocks, mages.
What your GM was probably reacting to is the fact that powershifting is a pretty complicated thing to do for a marginal increase in dps, but if done properly it will increase your damage output and that is why you're here, right?
Yeah, I try to keep FF up as much as possible (even when I'm tanking).
So probably one of my issues is the energy usage, and randomly using FB.
As for PowerShiting, I've read about it (and I should probably practice), but a couple of days ago I was talking with the GM and he was basically saying that it was crap, lol ;S
Go to the 1st page and read, it is everything you need. I think you'll find most folks willing to have a nice discussion with the finer points once you do some work of your own. Simply plopping a post at the end of this thread and not putting in any effort won't get you very far.
I've rejigged the wording in the first post a bit so it's a bit less anti-lacerate (since it got buffed and stuff).
Gahlok, go read the first post(s). If you try and post any "TL;DR" shit here in response to being told to read it, you'll probably get banned, so do it before posting obvious things that are quite clearly answered.
If you're a feral druid with 5/5 T6 and the rest of your guild is similarly geared, you should probably never be top 10 in dps (with the exception of fights like Reliquary where melee have a huge advantage). Cat dps is similar to shadow priests in that the top end of our dps will never match pure damage classes like rogues, warlocks, mages.
Stop spreading bull****. Ferals will always be in every single circumstance above any Shadowpriests and capable of holding up extremly good with the pure classes considering that with the same talent build we're both best tanks (Sunwell) and good damage dealers. Best geared, best played compared with eachother you can do 80% of a Rogue/Warlock/Hunter and 90+% of the other classes which is damn viable if you ask me.
Sure, it's viable - but it's also unlikely that 80% of the rogues/warlocks/hunters and 90% of the other classes is going to be top 10 in your raid's DPS, given that in general you take 16 DPSers.
That's not an insult, it's a statement of fact. Feral DPS doesn't suck, but it's not as good as other pure DPS classes.
If the rest of your DPSers are in full T6 gear most of them will outDPS a feral cat. So what? There are plenty of other reasons to bring feral druids. If you're not bringing a feral druid on brutallus because of DPS, you're likely going to be bringing them to tank.
04/01/08, 7:00 AM
On the bright side, like Commendation it's on a 1-day cooldown.
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