I may have slightly exaggerated, but I think its safe to say that people wearing t6 aren't optimizing their raiding specs for karazhan or anything else where warriors aren't present at all. Feral aggression at this point for him would probably make it harder to tank karazhan by just rage starving him. I had to smack a dps warrior that put up thunderclap one time, that kind of rage starving gets dpsers killed.
What HP do you have fully raidbuffed when tanking Brutallus? All your dps gems/enchants in what appears to be your tanking set worries me a bit. Brutallus hits so ridiculously hard and fast, that the tank needs to do everything in his power to help out healers in my opinion.
My feelings are also that to perform as good as possible, we need pretty much separate dps/tanking sets, with gems and enchants showing for that. Only very few select pieces can/should be used for both roles. Straight of the top of my head I can only recall t6 bracers (gemmed 10 agi, enchanted 4 stats) as the common piece between my tank and dps set.
That said, I get pretty much insta-gibbed every now and again too. Gets a lot better as healers learn to time their heals better though. For instance you want a big heal to land right after the stomp, and then preferebly 2 big heals landing like 1-1.5s after the stomp landed.
The current gear in my armory is what I killed brutallus with our first time. I was using the belt of natural power with two 15 stam gems in it before I got t6. (Which I'm sporting right now because I needed a little more +hit for kalecgos.)
If I remember correctly I was hovering around 38k armor, defense capped, ~56% dodge and close to 22k hp fully raid buffed. We had 3 healers on my and another druid and it was smooth sailing from there on out.
I recently picked it up along with getting my exalted DPS ring from Hyjal and the [Shard of Contempt]. Was loving the proc rate on the last two when i noticed that i cant recall ever seeing a buff from the Amulet. Reverified that i am in fact exalted with my Scryer faction and obviously Shattered Sun Offensive. Went so far as to leave my character window open and engage random mobs while farming but still i never got a proc. I only picked it up because Rawr ranked it as a better neck, even above the amulet from Kael.
EDIT: I was under the impression the amulets buff was 200 AP for Aldor and 100 Crit Rating for Scryer, No?
I was also lurking the whole thread long, now first I wanted to thank all the feral fellows helping here!
Now when I thought I can help too, I give it a try.. if my english is too unreadable, please forgive this guy writing in a foreign language
If you refer to the Scryer's exalted version, it doesn't give you a buff but instead it provides a damage-procc on melee-hits. As mentioned before, it does around 350-400 damage and can crit for double damage based on our melee crit chance. With a reported procc rate of 1.12ppm (not verified, but seems ok) it's to be a nice upgrade if you're still wearing KZ or badges loot.. but to me, it seems inferior to [Choker of Endless Nightmares] or the one from TK's Kael'thas, which both provide better raw stats. Rawr ranks the SSO neck in between for me, so it comes down to personal preference or which of the loots you were lucky enough to get (the now even bigger Supremus hates me even more I guess).
Can't tell you anything on the Aldor's though, if that was your question..
I recently picked it up along with getting my exalted DPS ring from Hyjal and the [Shard of Contempt]. Was loving the proc rate on the last two when i noticed that i cant recall ever seeing a buff from the Amulet. Reverified that i am in fact exalted with my Scryer faction and obviously Shattered Sun Offensive. Went so far as to leave my character window open and engage random mobs while farming but still i never got a proc. I only picked it up because Rawr ranked it as a better neck, even above the amulet from Kael.
EDIT: I was under the impression the amulets buff was 200 AP for Aldor and 100 Crit Rating for Scryer, No?
I've been using it for a few days, aldor version. Looking through WWS from our raid last night I see the following:
Rage Winterchill 2m54s, 4 procs
Kaz'rogal 5m16s (don't ask... he usually goes down twice as fast), 5 procs
Archimonde 5m4s, 5 procs
Looking further, it seems to proc pretty much as often as Shard of Contempt, and twice as often as the exalted MH ring.
I have heard many times that these weapons are compareble, but if someone with more math skill would mind breaking these down and provide a definite answer to which is better between choice #1 [Staff of the Forest Lord] , and choice #2 [Vengeful Gladiator's Staff] , it would be much appreciated!
P.S. For argument sake let's assume that a player can reach the hit cap without the help on the Glad wep.
I have heard many times that these weapons are compareble, but if someone with more math skill would mind breaking these down and provide a definite answer to which is better between choice #1 [Staff of the Forest Lord] , and choice #2 [Vengeful Gladiator's Staff] , it would be much appreciated!
P.S. For argument sake let's assume that a player can reach the hit cap without the help on the Glad wep.
As always it depends on your other gear which is why most people suggest to use Rawr or a spreadsheet, but even with all of the hit on [Vengeful Gladiator's War Staff] usable for me [Staff of the Forest Lord] comes out about 5dps better off.
However there is the issue of missing rotations and how much that would decrease your dps.
Currently my guild is working on Brutallus, with me and a prot warrior tanking. I was perusing the last few pages about Brutallus and see quite a few druids posting with some pretty crazy stats. Now, some background on my tanking gear / t6, since we weren't widely used on big hitters (though I did tank Teron a few times), I homogenized my gear quite a bit between cat and bear, opting for agility, agi/sta, and hit/agi gems over pure stamina, defense, etc. The posters I have looked at through armory to compare gear are always in cat gear so its hard to get a guide.
We have hit enrage a few times with DPS short, but I have been instagibbed quite a bit also, though I tend to believe that is more on the no staggered heals side over anything else, though I do also realize if I shot for more stamina gems I could definitely soak an additional hit when there is a slow heal also. I usually run with [Shadowmoon Insignia] and [Commendation of Kael'thas].
I guess what I'm wondering is, is my current gem/enchants/gear setup in need of some tweaking? I seem to be taking about 300 more damage than Beace(EU)/Tagrat(EU)/Kovah(US) on average according to WWS parses while my avoidance seems lower than theirs also. I would think with my higher agi I would at least lean towards higher overall avoidance.
Some ideas would be great, I would really like to avoid changing gems, but I would rather get us a kill than be stubborn on gems at this point, my standard group the last few raids has been Me, Hunter, Hunter, Shaman, and either another Hunter or an extra rogue.
Feedback is appreciated.
Its tough to say as you are logged out in your DPS gear (ironic, no? ).
If you look at my armoury I'm logged out in almost exactly what I tanked Brutallus with for the first time. The brutallus neck was isntead [Pendant of Titans], the Felmyst boots were [Treads of the Den Mother] and the PvP trinket was [Badge of Tenacity] (curse you Blizzard for adding more bosses that force use of PvP trinket
).
I was forced into socketing full Stamina for BT due to bad luck on the other gems and not being able to get shadowsongs or Spinels. I always intended to change this in the future with 2.4 bringing gem vendor and loads more gems from drops. When I've got here though I've decided to stick with full stamina. That includes the excellent new helm enchant from the Shattered Sun. My only major gear mistake is that about a year ago when we first killed Magtheridon, I took the DPS ring as I had bad ones at the time, over the tanking one. GMs won't switch so I've had to live with the badge ring since then, at least till the 2.4 badge vendor goes live.
Stack for stamina. Use flasks, Crawdad, if you feel you need it also get yourself in with the MT for Devotion Aura and commanding shout (but if your struggling on DPS, sit in the hunter group).
If you are doing all that, and are chain chugging Ironshield pots, and using Barkskin before each tanking phase, there isn't much else you can do to keep yourself up. As you said you use trinket/seed on stomps too. If you are doing all that, then you are done. It is just down to your healers getting their act together. The so called Instagibs will start to get phased out as your healers get better at the fight, thats what we found, without any different action of your own. Also you may want to consider [Idol of the Raven Goddess] if DPS is struggling, its a massive amount extra crit for a 3 hunter group.
Other than that just to reiterate the Lacerate advice, keep up a full stack whilst tanking before going swipe spam, keep it renewed and as the other tank takes it renew it before going cat. This will increase your DPS by >100.
Originally Posted by Shadowed
The best part is, not only were you late in linking it, that's an April fools topic from 6 months ago.
Certainly if you are regularly in a multiple Hunter and Shaman group there's no need to get fancy - just stick 15sta in every slot.
I only recently started using [Brooch of Deftness] because I'm not in an especially synergistic group and want to improve my threat - otherwise I'd use [Pendant of Titans]
You don't need any resists for TK since the Solarian change.
For SSC resist duty on just the adds, as someone said earlier, 100-150 of each resist will be enough to make a difference. When you are better geared you can just zerg them in high hp gear.
Re: LW, just try one of the powerlevelling threads on the WoW forums, but [Drums of Battle] are a great way to get your pesky last 10 points, since you will need loads of them later on anyway and they are always useful to have around.
[e] ooops there was another page, sorry.
Last edited by Farstrider : 04/11/08 at 9:13 AM.
<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
What HP do you have fully raidbuffed when tanking Brutallus? All your dps gems/enchants in what appears to be your tanking set worries me a bit. Brutallus hits so ridiculously hard and fast, that the tank needs to do everything in his power to help out healers in my opinion.
My feelings are also that to perform as good as possible, we need pretty much separate dps/tanking sets, with gems and enchants showing for that. Only very few select pieces can/should be used for both roles. Straight of the top of my head I can only recall t6 bracers (gemmed 10 agi, enchanted 4 stats) as the common piece between my tank and dps set.
That said, I get pretty much insta-gibbed every now and again too. Gets a lot better as healers learn to time their heals better though. For instance you want a big heal to land right after the stomp, and then preferebly 2 big heals landing like 1-1.5s after the stomp landed.
Ya Beace, and this was my thought too, however when mentioning to the other officers about regemming they weren't for it, they are convinced my survivability is good enough, and while the insta-gibbing has significantly gone down the last few raids on Brutallus, I'm still not convinced.
To answer your question I'm at about 21k hps buffed, which is 3-5k lower than some tanks mentioned in this thread, hence the cause for my worry, but the healers claim "its easy to keep you up, its the warrior", etc, etc. But twice last nigth we had "kills" going and the healers got panicky / excited in side the last 45 seconds and lost me once to a bad chain during a stomp where the heals were not staggered and another go where I died outside stomp.
Originally Posted by Vaccine
Its tough to say as you are logged out in your DPS gear (ironic, no? ).
If you look at my armoury I'm logged out in almost exactly what I tanked Brutallus with for the first time. The brutallus neck was isntead [Pendant of Titans], the Felmyst boots were [Treads of the Den Mother] and the PvP trinket was [Badge of Tenacity] (curse you Blizzard for adding more bosses that force use of PvP trinket :crai: ).
I was forced into socketing full Stamina for BT due to bad luck on the other gems and not being able to get shadowsongs or Spinels. I always intended to change this in the future with 2.4 bringing gem vendor and loads more gems from drops. When I've got here though I've decided to stick with full stamina. That includes the excellent new helm enchant from the Shattered Sun. My only major gear mistake is that about a year ago when we first killed Magtheridon, I took the DPS ring as I had bad ones at the time, over the tanking one. GMs won't switch so I've had to live with the badge ring since then, at least till the 2.4 badge vendor goes live.
Stack for stamina. Use flasks, Crawdad, if you feel you need it also get yourself in with the MT for Devotion Aura and commanding shout (but if your struggling on DPS, sit in the hunter group).
If you are doing all that, and are chain chugging Ironshield pots, and using Barkskin before each tanking phase, there isn't much else you can do to keep yourself up. As you said you use trinket/seed on stomps too. If you are doing all that, then you are done. It is just down to your healers getting their act together. The so called Instagibs will start to get phased out as your healers get better at the fight, thats what we found, without any different action of your own. Also you may want to consider [Idol of the Raven Goddess] if DPS is struggling, its a massive amount extra crit for a 3 hunter group.
Other than that just to reiterate the Lacerate advice, keep up a full stack whilst tanking before going swipe spam, keep it renewed and as the other tank takes it renew it before going cat. This will increase your DPS by >100.
Ya Vaccine, I was in tank gear on armory all day, you might have looked after I logged in to do dailys or something. My gear is pretty normal except as I said I'm gemmed for agi/hit/sta all together. Last night I busted out the Idol of Raven Goddess for the hunters also, thanks for that advice. I hit 700ish dps last night so that seems good as I did keep lacerate up and went into cat while the warrior was tanking.
Certainly if you are regularly in a multiple Hunter and Shaman group there's no need to get fancy - just stick 15sta in every slot.
I only recently started using [Brooch of Deftness] because I'm not in an especially synergistic group and want to improve my threat - otherwise I'd use [Pendant of Titans]
If I had a choice between 12 agi and 12 stamina which should I take?
I know that normaly agi > stam for tanking giving reasonable gear levels but with the new sunwell radiance debuff nerfing dodge a lot, rawwr shows stam beating out agi. But to me it just seems like I'm wasting item points seeing as 12 agi is worth 18 stamina.
(Basically choosing between putting 12 def on cloak or bracers)
Kiore:
I also recommand that you ask to be in a group with a prot warrior for commanding shout, and a warlock spec affli/demo for the stamina buff, it will probably up you from 21k to 24k.
I dont think its a good idea to be put with a chaman, agility totem is not good enough.
We usually run in group1 with:
mt1 war with commanding shout
warlock spec affli/demo with stamina buff (and shadow embrace, very important)
pala heal with armor aura (860 armor is useful on stomp)
druid heal with aura +heal(dont know if it is the best choice on this one, but it worked for us)
me
war dps need to put imp demoralizing shout, and prot war need to put imp thunderclap.
For the stuff i think its pretty clear, use [Badge of Tenacity] on first stomp, with a nightmare seed, if you have [Commendation of Kael'thas] use it as second trinket, or if you dont have it use Moroes or Darkmoon Card Vengeance.
If you still die, and you do everything fine (armor potion, every trinket, you announce on ventrilo or teamspeak before you taunt, no more than 3 stack of meteor), its not your fault, its a problem with healer. They need to anticipate stomp, they need in stomp to cast great heal and not flash heal, they need to do the job.
edit: youre stuff on armory is quite good, except for the back, use the [Slikk's Cloak of Placation], you need the maximum armor possible for the somp
and dont use [Shadowmoon Insignia]if you have the badge of tenacity
I just got my second piece of T6 today (yay!), and I've run into a bit of a quandry involving what gear I should use for soloing. What with all the dailies and such, I find myself out in the world on my own a lot, spamming mangle and finishing with FB. How good is 2t4 and 2t6 for this? I don't have t4 chest, and my t6 are gloves and shoulders.
Is t4 helm + t4 pants (with 40stam/12agi) + t6 gloves + t6 shoulders better than T4 helm + t4 shoulders + [Leggings of Murderous Intent] (with 50AP/12crit) + [Gloves of the Searing Grip]? Rawr doesn't model soloing, which is why I'm asking here.
2 piece T6 is probably better for soloing than the raw stats from other pieces due to all the mangle spam. Frankly though when you're up in T6 level gear things die so quickly I can't really be bothered to "optimize" my gear for soloing.
Idol of Terror + Ashtongue Talisman + 4t6 = good times.
Some of the only mobs that don't die in 3 mangles + Ferocious Bite (i.e. 4 seconds from opening out of stealth) are Elemental Plateau mobs. And even then they're so dead you can pretty much auto-attack the rest while building energy for the next mob.
High-res EOS kill. EOS because it's supposed to be about the cycle and not damage and because that kill was pretty good cycle wise. In the future I'll try to upload other good kills.
After killing Brutallus once, we failed again the other day. But not by tanks dying, but because of a suboptimal raidsetup.
I can reccomend going for max armor at all times (I even use my old cloak from illhoof and 2 armor rings). And furthermore, Moroes trinket is REALLY and I mean REALLY good in this fight, cos you can use it every other stomp. And while dodge is not really reliable against brutallus, with the trinket on you get so much dodge that you would have to be really unlucky to not dodge at least a few hits. Moroes + the dodge from the Kaelthas Commendation when you get under 35% can and will save you from a lot of deaths.
Shadowmoon is nice, but the 1750 hp won't save you from Bruts wrath! So if you can spare the defence (you should get defence of your other items) use moroes, and if you can't, get crit immunity from other items.
[Slikk's Cloak of Placation] is going to beat out [Gilded Thorium Cloak] as well as every other cloak, there's no reason to not get one unless you have that much trouble getting crit immune (I assume you drink an Ironskin). And I don't think you're giving Shadowmoon enough credit, when you're getting spammed heals to put you back to 100% every second, I personally believe health outweighs avoidance.
One thing to keep in mind about Armor on Brutallus is that every point of armor above the cap only counts as .5 more armor during a stomp. What makes Badge of Tenacity so good on this fight is the combination of Armor and it's Use effect for stomps. Armor rings, for instance, don't seem very useful to me, if I can get more avoidance and health from other rings (not counting the new ring) and stay above the armor cap.
Regardless, I don't feel discussions about Brutallus Tanking are necessary. A t6 Tank geared (enchants/gems) druid can do it, the differences in Trinkets, Weapon, Rings, Neck, Cloak, Specific Gem Types, Potions drank, etc. are all personal opinion. It only matters that you are doing everything you can do to help. My guild used 2 druids, I had 6k less life but ~10% more dodge and 5k more armor than the other druid, Brutallus died. I hear of druids doing it with even less life (~20k) than I had (22k).
The only Benchmarks I'm comfortable setting for this fight are (with Buffs) Armor cap without Inspiration, 20k health, and 40% Dodge. This boss is likely beatable without any T6 set or new Badge items.
Hibernicus - I use 4t6 when farming, and I prefer either longer than 10s duration procs ( [Shard of Contempt] ) or on use items ( [Bloodlust Brooch] ). Things like the 2t4 and [Madness of the Betrayer] seem sub par when mobs die in under 10 seconds and it takes 5 seconds to grab another mob. 4t6 also has the major advantage in competitive farming where you want to be pulling multiple mobs at once (Blades Edge and Sunwell Dailies or Primal farming) and Bearform swiping beats using catform. Catform usually has to burn too much mana healing after a multi-pull and can't, for example, take 3 burns from Fear Fiends very easily.
Hibernicus - I use 4t6 when farming, and I prefer either longer than 10s duration procs ( [Shard of Contempt] ) or on use items ( [Bloodlust Brooch] ). Things like the 2t4 and [Madness of the Betrayer] seem sub par when mobs die in under 10 seconds and it takes 5 seconds to grab another mob. 4t6 also has the major advantage in competitive farming where you want to be pulling multiple mobs at once (Blades Edge and Sunwell Dailies or Primal farming) and Bearform swiping beats using catform. Catform usually has to burn too much mana healing after a multi-pull and can't, for example, take 3 burns from Fear Fiends very easily.
Thanx for the advice! If I had 4t6, I would certainly be using it. Alas, my guild has not killed Illidan, and we have only one Archi kill under out belt, so I don't see myself getting 4t6 any time in the near future. I do tend to prefer using swipe-spam for questing when there's large groups of melee mobs to be pulled at once (Sunfury Attack Plans daily is my favorite for this). I'm definitely going to swap out my t4 pants and legs for better gear, though.
04/10/08, 8:08 PM
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