After reading earlier posts im still a little unclear how NI affects LotP (if it even does).
When a party member gets a heal from LotP does it read as me healing them, or just them using the aura to heal themselves? If its the latter, Im guessing the buffed NI wont affect the amount of healing I give to the group, just myself?
Im debating whether its worth specing into NI for the good of the raid. I am never called upon to heal even though I pop out and throw up a Regrowth or Rejuv since i still have the 2t5 bonus. Granted, NI will definately help keep me alive especially when Im DPSin about 50% of the boss fights we are doing. If i didnt spend the points into NI i would more than likely put them back into Brutal Impact (Yeah, its not that great raid wise but i like that extra second to heal/attack/charge something else)
NI increases the heals you specifically cast (not LotP). It also increases the healing you receive in cat form, which does include your LotP heals on yourself, and all heals others cast on you in cat form.
NI will cause LOTP to heal you for 20% more while in cat form, so 4.8% of your total health instead of 4.0%. It won't have any effect on how LOTP heals others in your party since it's a healing done to, not done by, modifier.
Edit: Beaten to it above, ah well. As pointed out it will of course also increase heals from others to you by 20% which is a pretty solid bonus for any fight with significant aoe damage or similar. Would seem the obvious choice to me if Brutal Impact's all you'd be giving up for it PVE wise.
Hello everyone I'm new to the forums but I've been lurking awhile. I wanted to post because I'm looking for some DPS advice. While I do fairly well when in full DPS gear, I still feel I could do a lot better, as could my overall guild/raid.
One specific example that jumps to mind is Teron Gorefiend. While I do have pretty good gear, I do around 1200 DPS and rogues and hunters top out around 1500-1700. However I've seen WWS of guilds doing 1800+ Feral, with 2200+ rogue/hunter, and a few high-end guilds doing 2500+ Feral, 3300+ Rogue/Hunter.
Clearly our DPS needs to be picked up.
So what I would like to know from one of the ferals in here who has done the 1800+ or 2500+ DPS on a fight like that is the following:
1) What is your gear and enchants/gems? And what is your overall gear strat (ie, pure Agi stacking, going for Hit, going for Armor pen, etc)?
2) What is your attack rotation (Mangle >>Shred till 4cp >>Rip, or something else?)
3) What consumables and buffs do you have/use (including mid-fight pots)?
4) What debuffs from other raid members do you make sure are up at all times when DPSing?
5) Any special tricks/hints (when to powershift, if at all; what combo of set bonuses you like; etc)
Your advice would be greatly appreciated I would really love to bring up my DPS
most of your questions are answered in the introduction post - please look up there.
Concerning equip I would recommend you to check Rawr or Tokks' DPS Gear Methology - this is in the 1st post too.
Teron fight has high dps when the fight doesn't last long. If you have highly geared DPS in your raid and the fight lasts only a few minutes then your personal DPS is fairly high due to the effects of trinkets and so on.
1,2k dps is quite good considering that your highest dps class has only 1,7k and the longer duration of the fight.
...
I can reccomend going for max armor at all times (I even use my old cloak from illhoof and 2 armor rings). And furthermore, Moroes trinket is REALLY and I mean REALLY good in this fight, cos you can use it every other stomp. And while dodge is not really reliable against brutallus, with the trinket on you get so much dodge that you would have to be really unlucky to not dodge at least a few hits. Moroes + the dodge from the Kaelthas Commendation when you get under 35% can and will save you from a lot of deaths.\
Badge of Tenacity has the same cooldown, less dodge but for longer, and gives significant amount of armor. Therefore i'd recommend badge over moroes trinket.
Some quick calculations using Tossk's calculator and a base of 4500 AP, 45% crit and non-maxed hit rating (so I can see the value of hit gear) gives some of the following:
1. New pvp feral bracers are better than anything besides Insidious Bands
2. The S3 gladiator's helm blows every helm out of the water except for Cursed Vision of Sargeras
3. The S3 gladiator's chest is significantly better than everything besides the Nether Shadow Tunic which it is only 5 AP behind.
Now for full T6 geared people this probably doesnt make much of a difference in terms of top gear lits. However if you're in SSC/TK there is EASILY obtainable gear now that will put you near top BT/MH gear. A quick list off the top of my head for SSC/TK druid DPS would look like:
Head: S3 Gladiator
Neck: Choker of Vile Intent
Shoulders: Malorne
Back: Razor Scale Battle Cloak (or Drape of the Dark Reavers)
Chest: S3 Gladiator
Wrist: S3 (equiv) PvP Feral Bracers
Hands: Malorne
Belt: Belt of Deep Shadow or ideally Belt of One-Hundred Death's (ZA belt is closer to the same value here as is the new badge belt)
Legs: Skulker's Greaves
Boots: Nyn'Jah's Tabi Boots
Ring 1: Ring of Lethality
Ring 2: Garona's Signet Ring (the timed ZA ring is better than both of these but may be tough to get)
Trinket 1: DST
Trinket 2: ZA trinket off Zul'jin (bloodlust brooch and crystalforged are also good here)
Weapon: S3 Staff (S2 Staff if you cant get the appropriate rating)
The difference between this gear set and the top gear set is pretty small (probably less than 200 AP equiv). Looking at the gearlist you need to hit 25 man raids for only 3 slots (one of which is from Gruul).
Note:
The Difference between the T4 Helm and S3 Gladiator helm is 78.83 AP equiv and the difference between the T4 Chest and S3 Gladiator chest is 81.01 AP equiv. The shoulders are only ~50 AP better than the S3 gladiator ones and the T4 gloves are only ~50 AP better than the Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation, so clearly the T4 shoulders and gloves should be used. I think most people didnt realize just how small the difference between the T4 gloves and the top end gloves were. Its MUCH better to use the Malorne gloves and shoulders instead of giving up one of the sweet other slots like chest or helm. Maybe I calculated something wrong but it sure looks that way to me.
Before working on an update to this, has anyone spent time in that? With incorporating the new Badge loot?
Once again I'm sure there's a dozen variances for where you get your hit rating from.
Tip for searching this thread: Topics are brought up again and again, thus are found on random pages, to find specific recent information edit your options to show 50 posts per page and do a manual search of the last 10 pages (~500 posts). To find this post, I very quickly scrolled through the posts looking for multiple lines of colored text (item links) Likely the most effective method for finding loot lists and specific item discussions. It took me more time to type this than it took for me to find that post.
Edit: I just picked up [Madness of the Betrayer] forgetting I already had my gear set up for hit cap. It occurred to me that we need an Agi/Crit gem, I'm sure Rogues and Hunters would love one too. While we're at it, can we get /Haste added as well ... stupid casters.
Once again I'm sure there's a dozen variances for where you get your hit rating from.
Tip for searching this thread: Topics are brought up again and again, thus are found on random pages, to find specific recent information edit your options to show 50 posts per page and do a manual search of the last 10 pages (~500 posts). To find this post, I very quickly scrolled through the posts looking for multiple lines of colored text (item links) Likely the most effective method for finding loot lists and specific item discussions. It took me more time to type this than it took for me to find that post.
Edit: I just picked up [Madness of the Betrayer] forgetting I already had my gear set up for hit cap. It occurred to me that we need an Agi/Crit gem, I'm sure Rogues and Hunters would love one too. While we're at it, can we get /Haste added as well ... stupid casters.
So I just got [Angelista's Revenge] and was looking at Toskk's to see which of my two old dps rings I should keep, [Shapeshifter's Signet] or [Ancestral Ring of Conquest] and I was surprised how much low of a value expertise is assigned. It's a full 30 kitty points lower, for a +32str -4 agi -5 expertise rating difference. All said and done, the 32 str gives me 75.3 AP at the cost of ~.16 crit and 1.25% dodge reduction, and it just seems kind of crazy that the AP would be that much more effective than the dodge reduction.
My only major gear mistake is that about a year ago when we first killed Magtheridon, I took the DPS ring as I had bad ones at the time, over the tanking one. GMs won't switch so I've had to live with the badge ring since then, at least till the 2.4 badge vendor goes live.
I made a similar mistake, picked the healer ring a good 12 months ago. I did manage to get it swapped the other day, though. The GM wasn't very helpful, but i made a small qq on the customer service forums and a blue poster there made it happen.
I'd like to get your opinions on [Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve] vs. [Pendant of Titans]. I do not need the Defense(other than the small amount of Dodge it would give) from the Titans, but the 25 Dodge and 20 Hit is nice. Right now I am using the Maiden neck [Barbed Choker of Discipline] and trying to decide whether it's worth DKP for the Pendant vs. the purchasable SSO neck. I have added the SSO neck to Rawr, but I am unsure how to add in the proc(100 Expertise 45 sec CD I believe), I'll mess with it more and see what I can come up with.
One thing to note, because the expertise proc is on a hidden cd like nearly every proc, there is a very good chance that it will proc almost immediately at the start of every fight assuming there was a bit of downtime between fights. This means that the expertise will benefit you far more than merely the average value of the expertise would indicate. Parry gib's right off the bat in a pull where healers are often running into position, afraid to get agro with a big heal, afraid to stack too many hots, and generally not 'in the zone yet' are probably the worst time for them to come. Greatly lowering this in the first 10 seconds of almost every fight is quite nice. The large increase in early fight threat generation from worrying far less about a parry right off the bat allowing a dpser to pull agro is also very nice.
I think the pendant of resolve (and the similar brooch of deftness) serve a different value than the choker or the pendant of titans do. Some fights you'll want to emphasize avoidance, some you'll want to emphasize stam and effective health (which parrygibs are a part of). That being said, it's hard for me to imagine you not wanting the pendant of titans; it's a stellar piece that has both things on it, allows you to enchant for more stam elsewhere, and is in general great. Plus, you're a feral tanking druid - aside from tier pieces what else are you going to bid on?
Im debating whether its worth specing into NI for the good of the raid. I am never called upon to heal even though I pop out and throw up a Regrowth or Rejuv since i still have the 2t5 bonus. Granted, NI will definately help keep me alive especially when Im DPSin about 50% of the boss fights we are doing. If i didnt spend the points into NI i would more than likely put them back into Brutal Impact (Yeah, its not that great raid wise but i like that extra second to heal/attack/charge something else)
I'm enjoying the new NI quite a bit. I rarely tank nowadays though, I'm pretty much exclusively dps so 20% extra healing done to me on every fight is something I couldn't pass up. The +healing has come in handy a couple times too, on our last kalecgos kill there wasn't enough healing on the demon tank at one point and I had the wild magic healing buff, so I helped out a bit there. It's nice on illidan too, I can toss out some rejuvs after flame burst and help top off people around me.
And of course it's pretty fun when you're soloing or PVPing with the 2 piece tier 5 bonus. Of course I don't have natural shifter at the moment so I have balls for mana but the option is there.
Ok so [Righteous Weapon Coating] works in feral form, didnt see anything about this earlier. Does it, assuming the 40 sec internal CD posted in wowhead comments, beat [Adamantite Weightstone] for anything ?
Can I get some critique on my cat gear? Any way I can improve for pre-t6?
I looked at your armory, you've got pretty much the best pre-t6 gear there is. You've got high amount of hit/expertise, 2pc t4 and pretty much the best gear available from badge vendor. Your raid dps should be solid if you run the proper cycles.
Ok so [Righteous Weapon Coating] works in feral form, didnt see anything about this earlier. Does it, assuming the 40 sec internal CD posted in wowhead comments, beat [Adamantite Weightstone] for anything ?
When assuming a 40 second cooldown and decent proc rate, this enchant will proc about once every minute, giving it a 1/6 uptime. On average this means we gain ~50 ap from it. Adamantite Weightstone has 14 crit rating and 12 weapon damage, which roughly equates to 172 ap. Therefore Adamantite Weightstones are far superior and those Righteous Weapon Coatings should be put in the guild bank for your hunters
I looked at your armory, you've got pretty much the best pre-t6 gear there is. You've got high amount of hit/expertise, 2pc t4 and pretty much the best gear available from badge vendor. Your raid dps should be solid if you run the proper cycles.
how much dps should I be doing? on Magtheridon for example.. I generally do 1300 dps.
Euughh. Once again I'm pondering turning from "mostly agility and a bit of stamina" to "giant sack of stamina". Thank you, Gurtogg Bloodboil, for being a fight that relies (at least partially) on tank transitions where taunt is unavailable and his own deaggro is ineffective when dodged!
I know this is less about Ferals and more about Gurtogg, but getting 15-20 stacks before he bothers to transition safely is getting old fast. How do you other Ferals handle tanking and transitions in this fight? On our last attempt I tried simply not generating threat while I was his target--with the result that, due to rage starvation because he wouldn't fucking switch, a DPS pulled ahead of our other two tanks and got everyone arc'd. To be honest, even if DPS weren't overdoing it I imagine this wouldn't work simply because if all our tanks did this NONE of us would ever get the debuff off and slowly become unhealable.
That's weird, because personally I've found Agility to be far more useful to stack on Gurtogg than Stamina. I'm normally a Stamina/Armor purist, but for Gurtogg I drop both to gain a lot of dodge (switch from [Pillar of Ferocity] to [Wildfury Greatstaff], from [Badge of Tenacity] to [Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch], from [Brooch of Deftness] to [Necklace of the Juggernaut] etc). Dodging the debuff to begin with (so it stacks more slowly) is useful, and if your other tanks are struggling to keep up in threat (as Warriors and Paladins typically do), then it's more what the raid can do to assist them in catching up as opposed to you changing your gearing style.
Make sure they are in threat groups, give them WF totem, if you have a Ret Paladin I've heard them being in a group with a Prot Paladin does wonders for the Prot Paladin's threat. Chain misdirects onto them if you have the hunters. Send in your lowest TPS tank first, after a bit of lead get the Hunters to misdirect the other tank while you go all out on your own.
Having said that, if you do end up with a sticky Gurtogg that just doesn't want to let go, call for a BoP on yourself and wait it out (important! if you click it off right away he'll probably come right back to you). This makes him stop attacking you, and switch to another tank. During BoP's duration, they should be able to surpass your threat and then some, with being the focussed target. Ease into your TPS cycle slowly after this, since you haven't eaten a punt and will likely still be quite close to the current tank.
try to use a shaman with wf totem in the tank grp. This vastly increases threat for your prot warries.
I try to gain aggro (I switch to my dps staff in the beginning and change it to the tanks staff on aggro) and when I have around 4-5 stacks I stop doing anythings besides an occational mangle and keeping FF up.
A tank that does sufficient aggro will normally overaggro you when you have around 10-12 stacks.
The prot warrie should do it the same.
DPS Classes should always be below the 3rd tank in the aggro list - otherwise he might get aggro and probably wipe the raid.
I stop attacking at 8 stacks. Warriors have notoriously terrible OT threat, so you need to think of your job as being "OT until the Warriors Debuffs roll off" using your higher OT threat as a kinda-taunt. Maximize your Warriors Tanking time.
This fight is actually very similar to Netherspite now that I think about it, with debuff rotations and then a short phase inbetween.
04/13/08, 6:47 PM
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