Wow Web Stats

This is from a raid where i sometimes wore the Pendant. Seems like it can be partially resisted as well as blocked although the amount resisted seems rather small - seems very strange.

This log shows no full resists though and i never saw one either.

It also shows 0 misses, which I guess makes sense since it is proc'd by a successful melee hit. Meaning that it will always land, but there's a block and resist/partial resist chance correct?

I'm pretty sure i've seen it miss before but i was almost hit capped so i didn't miss once.

I've only ever seen it once and at the time didn't want it enough to blow my dkp on it. Sure, it would be useful now but as the law states, when you're running MH for fun and no-one cares about dkp the damn thing never drops.

Personally I'd still slightly favour Wildfury anyway I think despite the Sunwell buff.

Wow Web Stats

Shows a partial resist and a crit that I can only assume was on Souls

I feel sorry for you guys, we give out Pillars to mages for Bloodboil Fel Rage. Of the 2 for Brutallus, the Wildfury is still probably better, the +50 armor on Pillar is only 137 during a stomp and irrelevant during the rest of the fight, while Wildfury's dodge is always useful.

Since threat is also an issue on Brutallus, I've favoured the Pillar here. Also Stamina and Armor is something you can touch, that keeps you protected. You can have a bad series of not-dodging especially with the sunwell radiance if you wear the Wildfury Greatstaff or the Pillar of Ferocity. I also had some insane misses, especially Mangle(Bear) beeing missed 26% as you can see here (wws of our kill), wearing T6 pants and the badge necklace for hit and expertise. Next time I will also use the crafted boots from SSC.

Care to share some of whatever you're smoking with the rest of us? Did you fail to notice that [Staff of the Forest Lord] has no armor?

Hi everyone,

I was looking into optimal setups for dps, in terms of raid makeups. I was curious if anyone had a rough idea of how much overall damage, or even per individual, 5% crit from LotP adds to the raid.

What I am trying to say is, I am looking for dps values of crit for melee, as well as possibly how much it adds to a tanks dps (1h+shield).

If you want an accurate answer, it'll vary based on their current gear, spec, skill etc. For a ball park answer, at 5% onto what the other 4 melee in the group do without lotp.

I did not. My goal for gear on the Brutallus fight is to have enough armour and stamina to not be insta-gibbed by a stomp coinciding with his melee hits with a comfortable margin (2-4k hp).

By using the SotFL I gain 100 AP and just over 2% crit for the entire time I tank Brutallus at the cost of 0.3% theoretical long term survivability loss during the Stomp. Outside the Stomp when I am already armour capped the SotFL has a 0.7% survivability INCREASE over the Greatstaff, and more over the Pillar.

I believe the [Staff of the Forest Lord] is the premier druid tank weapon in the game at this time because of it's huge threat advantages and minimal survivability disadvantage compared to the other options.

I can't imagine how you can say that a 2500-3000 drop in armor while in bear can be made up in anyway by raw dps stats. During a stomp we are obviously pushed way below the armor cap and every little bit would help. If it didn't then most druids wouldn't want armor on their gear anyway. You also have to remember that we're treated more like a warrior under the effect of a stomp and inspiration and ancestral fortitude will probably be up increasing our gain from armor even further.

I pity your healers if you insist on using a dps staff for the hardest-hitting boss in the game...

Wildfury is the best choice in my view due to, not in spite of the Sunwell buff. Each point of dodge you can add is more valuable than the last and the less dodge you have in total, the more valuable the increase becomes - see the Warrior theorycraft thread as to why this is so. Obviously mitigation through armor and a big HP pool are probably more important, but once you're at decent levels there, the tradeoff for dodge becomes compelling.
To drop both dodge and armor in favour of miniscule dps improvement on a fight where threat isnt really a huge issue if your raid is composed correctly is an awful choice I think.

What you said is contradictory. If each point you add is more valuable than the last, then the less you have, the less valuable it becomes.
Honestly, throughout Sunwell I've been using the pillar as my tanking staff of choice. Threat has always been a big deal in the first few boss fights first of all. Kalecgos, I've found that the human form generates a ton of threat, as I have to battle for threat over him during the demon part. Brutallus is obviously a burn fight and I find having the extra hp helps a ton for several reasons. During Stomp, healers are spamming you nonstop so I find the extra hp much more useful as I get topped off so many times during the fight. Also, I've been going with pocketwatch+badge combo as trinkets for Brutallus so I always have a trinket available every stomp. Sunwell Radiance becomes my other big reasoning as dodge is less useful the less you have.

Edit: My bad, misread the chart

I'm not saying everyone should go out and get loads of dodge for Brutallus of course. Armor and HP are still more important and it's a coinflip between Wildfury and Pillar mostly, but dropping huge mitigation from armor in favour of the badge dps staff is definitely not a great choice.

I was unaware of that. I do gain 20 energy consistently when I shift, so I didn't think it was a 2T4 proc. Maybe it's just going through a full tick and I'm not noticing. >_<

When you shift it resets the energy timer. In the most likely situation you will shift immediately after the GCD is up from the last move you used. Since GCD is 1 sec and assuming you used the move RIGHT as you got the energy (from the previous tick), you will always "lose" 10 energy from the power shift. So at best it'll give you 30 net energy gain.

I find it VERY unlikely you can be armor capped without using a weapon with armor on it.

Dodge does not affect Survival, it only increases Mitigation. If you understood the difference between these 2 theories, you would never use a dps weapon to tank. In basic terms the higher your survival, the less likely you are to die from a spike. The higher your mitigation is, the less total damage you take.

Comparing tanking weapons:
Pillar vs Wildfury: +2.2% Survival, -7.6% Mitigation, +3.2% TPS
SotFL vs Wildfury: -5.4% Survival, -2.5% Mitigation, +5.6% TPS
SotFL vs Pillar: -7.4% Survival, +5.5% Mitigation, +2.4% TPS

When Sunwell Radiance is considered:
Pillar vs Wildfury: +2.2% Survival, -4.3% Mitigation, +3.2% TPS
SotFL vs Wildfury: -5.4% Survival, -4.5% Mitigation, +5.6% TPS
SotFL vs Pillar: -7.4% Survival, -0.2% Mitigation, +2.4% TPS

Note - these figures are based on my personal gear which includes 5t6 stam gemmed and in a DPS group. Also note, when in Sunwell, the mitigation provided by the armor on Pillar is greater than that provided by the agility on SotFL.

Pillar for max Survival, Wildfury for max Mitigation, SotFL is max TPS (but hardly worth considering). Of course, these values will change slightly depending on buffs and group setup. Which one is better is a matter of personal preference when balancing these values IMO.

Using ironshields it is possible to get capped without armour on a weapon/ devotion aura or scrolls- even without any Sunwell loot.

We could always use SotFL for non- stomp phases and switch in PoF when stomp is due but then you'd need to know whether the threat gained by using SotFL makes up for the GCD you'd lose when switching.

All the "value of avoidance" stuff is covered in the first post, under Bear -> Stats. Most of it is covered by this graph. The more you get, the better it becomes.

Just in case anyone is wondering, I am planning on converting the majority of the OP to a Theorycraft Thinktank article eventually, I just haven't actually had the motivation to yet with other things going on.

Dukes, while the general principle of that graph is right, some of the numbers are a bit off. It took me a second to realize why avoidance + damage% in the 2nd table didn't add up to 100%, but I see it's accounting for crushing blows vs. normal hits. Even so, the ratio of (new damage) / (old damage) from adding 1% avoidance will be the more obvious value when all the hits are of the same type, for instance up at the 85% - 90% - 95% values. At 95% avoidance, the next 1% (which is on the same scale as the first column, not the 2nd) should show a marginal value of 20% reduction, not 14.3%.

It is very easy to be armour capped using the SotFL, as I am garunteed to have the Ancestral Fortitude or Inspiration buffs any time I am tanking in a raid environment.

Using semantics is a weak argument, putting it in bold doubly so. My Brutallus gear has enough armour and stamina on it to ensure my survival during the worst possible spike damage case. Gearing differently would indeed be a foolish proposition.

I have found in my own experience with Brutallus that the increased avoidance and threat of the SotFL is preferable to the increased armour and stamina on the Pillar or Greatstaff. If your experience is different... so be it. I will be sticking with what I have found to work. This is after all the internet, arguments are never won here.

I do encourage everyone to model your damage reduction from armour during Stomp with and without the Greatstaff's additional armour and compare it to the benefit of an increased 1% (almost 4% compared to the Pillar) avoidance for the entire fight. It might even be a worthwhile option to add to the next release of Rawr?

N.B. When tanking Brutallus I am in a tank group, with Imp Devotion Aura, chugging Ironshield Pots, etc.

Quoting myself for point on current discussion. Don't tell someone "That doesn't Work and is stupid" when it clearly does work for them.