[top] 17 hp

Chest:
15 def

Astrylian · 02/20/08, 5:29 PM

Originally Posted by Shinanigans

Hey guys. Couple quick questions if I could.

A friend of mine is quitting WoW and is giving me his Feral Druid that is BT/Hyjal attuned. He has 4/5 T4, Staff from SSC trash, both of crafted SSC leather pieces (belt and boots).

Now, I am not 100% sure how to judge the goodness of a tanking Druid. From what I know, via word of mouth, the T4 set bonuses make T4 FAR superior to T5. I believe that the Pillar of Ferocity drop from Hyjal is better than the staff that he has now.

I guess what I am looking for, is a place where I can make a side-by-side comparison for tanking gear like I can with my Enhance Shaman at MaxDPS.com.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Rawr is what you're looking for. The Druid Wiki � Rawr

Toskk · 02/20/08, 5:40 PM

I apologize for not adding the feature earlier.. but Socket method and Gem Quality options are now available via popup menus on the Gear List Generator.

raffy · 02/20/08, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by Maeltne

The only stats I really care about is STAM and AGI, hence +6 Stats = 12 item points and +15 DEF/RES = 15 items points. I think you'd be better served by enchanting the chest with def/res, and socketing stam/agi.

Also for equal items points DEF > RES+AGI for a combination for crit immunity/mitigation/avoidance. If crit immunity is your chief concern, sure use RES as a stopgap, get settling on DEF is superior.

The resilience vs defense vs stam vs agi vs dodge stuff is tough and is mostly only comparable by mentioning trade-offs and specific gear setups.

Per stat:
1 def / 59.25 = 0.01688 miss, 0.01688 dodge, 0.01688 anticrit (or total 0.03376 avoid)
1 resil / 39.4 = 0.02538 anitcrit
1 agi * 1.1 [bok] * 1.03 [sotf] / 14.7059 = 0.07704 dodge (ignore 2 armor, ignore 0.04532 crit)
1 dodge / 18.92 = 0.05285 avoid
1 sta * 1.1 [bok] * 1.03 [soft] * 1.2 [hotw] * 1.25 [bear] * 10 [hp/sta]

[top] 17 hp

Chest:
15 def

> 0.5064 avoid, 0.2532 anticrit
15 resil => 0.3807 anticrit
6 stats [6 sta, 6 agi]

[top]> 0.4622 avoid, 102 hp

15 def seems the winner on average.
15 def provides the most avoidance.
If you're over 2.6 anticrit, 6 stats is slightly better.
If you're really under 2.6 anticrit, 15 resil is better (might be the situation with "T7"/expertise gear and lack of +def on the new tanking ring and trinket.)

Head:
18 sta, 20 resil

> 0.5076 anticrit, 306 hp
16 def, 17 dodge => [0.5402 + 0.8984] 1.439 avoid, 0.2700 anticrit

Gem:
10 resil = 0.2538 anticrit
10 def = 0.3376 avoid, 0.1688 anticrit
10 agi = 0.7704 avoid
10 dodge = 0.5285 avoid
15 sta = 255 hp

10 agi provides best avoidance.
2x 10 def is debatably better than 10 agi + 10 resil, which basically means socketing for resilience sucks (enchant resil and socket agility/sta/def is a better strategy)

It's more interesting, however, when used in combination:

Head [18 sta, 20 resil] + Gem [10agi] + Chest [15 def] = 0.7608 anticrit, 306 hp, 1.2768 avoid
Head [16 def, 17 dodge] + Gem[15sta] + Chest [15 resil] = 0.6507 anticrit, 255 hp, 1.439 avoid

The new helm enchant and new chest enchant looks like the winners next patch (when your not going for 100% avoid) since you trade 0.1622 avoid for 0.1101 anticrit (and 51 hp). Considering 10 agi vs 10 resil provides 3x the avoid per resil, the 1.5:1 trade above is deal.)

Although we're still talking small gains/losses, getting more anticrit per customizable option (enchant, socket) and keeping the same avoidance is always better since it gives us increasing flexibility elsewhere.

Hufflepuff · 02/20/08, 5:55 PM

If my guild has a chronic shortage red epic gems (spinets) what is the best gem to replace that slot?

[Thick Lionseye] Y
[Solid Empyrean Sapphire] B
[Shifting Shadowsong Amethyst] R/B
[Enduring Seaspray Emerald] Y/B
[Glinting Pyrestone] R/Y

Keeping socket bonuses in mind (T6/Sunwell)

Thanks!

Duilliath · 02/20/08, 5:59 PM

er...

Did anyone take a look at the new stats on the new t6 pieces ? (Picture @ MMO-Champion)

How the hell are we supposed to tank anything without any stamina whatsoever ??

delemoose · 02/20/08, 6:11 PM

Originally Posted by Duilliath

er...

Did anyone take a look at the new stats on the new t6 pieces ? (Picture @ MMO-Champion)

How the hell are we supposed to tank anything without any stamina whatsoever ??

Yeah I saw that and while my initial reaction was frustration it was an universal change for all DPS sets.

There are two scenarios for us:

1) Since we are the only case where our gear is for both DPS and tanking, they will change it in the next PTR patch.
2) Another option is with the turn in T6 for vindicator gear, they plan to rely on PvP gear for tanking and have T6 as pure DPS? I only think of this because I use the honor bracers and belt for tanking though I'm leaning on them doing option 1.

Ovidus · 02/20/08, 6:11 PM

I guess they want those parts to be dps next patch, though it doesn't make any sense with the boots still having expertise.

Inaiwae · 02/20/08, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by Ovidus

I guess they want those parts to be dps next patch, though it doesn't make any sense with the boots still having expertise.

It does not have sense as they have item points spent in armor. Even pure dps piece needs more stamina than armor.

I am filling bug report for these.

Malazaar · 02/20/08, 6:19 PM

I must say i like the change, but while they are at it, they might as well convert the additional armor to dps stats, too. These changes make those 3 pieces by far the best available dps items and i was going to wear them anyway for the set bonus.

Expertise is actually not that bad for dps.

seminarca · 02/20/08, 6:20 PM

It's being speculated in the 2.4 patch thread that this change is for PvP reasons, to reduce their survivability (by killing Stamina) so people don't try to use 4 piece Gladiator and T6 bonuses simultaneously (e.g. T6 Belt/Boots/Bracers/Gloves + Gladiator Head/Shoulders/Chest/Legs). Some of the T6 bonuses could affect PvP balance. Obviously removing Stamina from the Feral set is an oversight, and I'd strongly suggest you report these items on PTR for review, citing PvE tanking as the reason.

Duilliath · 02/20/08, 6:30 PM

Originally Posted by seminarca

It's being speculated in the 2.4 patch thread that this change is for PvP reasons, to reduce their survivability (by killing Stamina) so people don't try to use 4 piece Gladiator and T6 bonuses simultaneously (e.g. T6 Belt/Boots/Bracers/Gloves + Gladiator Head/Shoulders/Chest/Legs). Some of the T6 bonuses could affect PvP balance. Obviously removing Stamina from the Feral set is an oversight, and I'd strongly suggest you report these items on PTR for review, citing PvE tanking as the reason.

I saw that, but when were ferals viable in Arena anyway, other than the odd 2v2 gladiator ?

That'd honestly be the last thing I'd be worrying about, possibly only slightly surpassed in "not important" by Enhancement shamans' viability-rise in Arena...

Didn't attempt to get on the PTR, but either the armour rating needs to drop, or the stamina needs to go up. Would've filed a report for sure. (And on Pillar ... and on t6 resto... and on...)

oldmandennis · 02/20/08, 6:47 PM

Originally Posted by Ovidus

I guess they want those parts to be dps next patch, though it doesn't make any sense with the boots still having expertise.

Expertise is better then hit, which isn't bad for a DPS stat. Still, if they are stripping the stamina from those pieces they need to strip the armor too.

Astrylian · 02/20/08, 6:48 PM

There are several glaring frell-ups with the reitemized T6 pieces. I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't go back and fix them all in another patch. (For example, Elem shams in T6 now have 118 hit rating on T6, in total. They're hit capped at 52 for horde, 39 for draenei. See a problem there?)

Thessaly · 02/20/08, 6:55 PM

I think the most hilarious part is that the socket bonus on each piece is 3 stamina.

Maeltne · 02/20/08, 7:10 PM

Originally Posted by raffy

The resilience vs defense vs stam vs agi vs dodge stuff is tough and is mostly only comparable by mentioning trade-offs and specific gear setups.

*Numbers*

If you're really under 2.6 anticrit, 15 resil is better (might be the situation with "T7"/expertise gear and lack of +def on the new tanking ring and trinket.)

*Numbers*

Although we're still talking small gains/losses, getting more anticrit per customizable option (enchant, socket) and keeping the same avoidance is always better since it gives us increasing flexibility elsewhere.

I will admit that if you just need a little anti crit and can't make it up with Defence, that resilience is the better option. But in terms of pure itemization points Defence is better.

Compare for instance 154 Defence VS 103 Resilience and 51 Agility.

The Defence user gets 2.6 anticrit, 2.6 Dodge, 2.6 Miss.

The Resilience user gets 2.6 Anticrit 3.5% dodge and 0% miss. Losing out on 1.7% avoidance.

I'm perfectly comfortable using Resilience as a stopgap measure, but in the end I always plan on getting back to Defence.

[top] 17 hp Chest: 15 def

[top] 17 hp

Chest:
15 def