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Old 02/21/08, 3:58 PM   #2101
xyruul
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Korgath
In BT last night I asked our members who made www.wwsscoreboard.com if they could add a dps for all bosses by class chart on the site. Less then 12 hours later and voila:
Druid WWS Scoreboard
By default it shows the top 15 for every boss, but that can be edited in the options to show a lot more. One click to get an indexed list of top performers on every boss to compare yourself to.

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Old 02/21/08, 4:02 PM   #2102
Deathwing
Bald Bull
 
Deathwing's Avatar
 
Orc Warrior
 
Black Dragonflight
Originally Posted by Ulfgar View Post
People really need to understand the itemisation formula and stop saying this, because it's generally wrong.

Feral Druid Preraid Tank Gear Guide
Which part? The second one is right.


Anyway, about powershifting, maybe I've got my macro wrong, but I'm never able to time it right in such that it doesn't clip the next energy tick. This is my powershift macro:

/cast [stance:1] Bear Form; [stance:2] Cat Form

I use it for breaking snares and roots as well. The problem I'm running into is I believe powershifting is affected by the previous ability's GCD. Is this correct, because from moderate latency(200ms), would you really only have about 600ms time to place the powershift correctly?

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Old 02/21/08, 4:07 PM   #2103
Kadaan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Deathwing View Post
Anyway, about powershifting, maybe I've got my macro wrong, but I'm never able to time it right in such that it doesn't clip the next energy tick. This is my powershift macro:

/cast [stance:1] Bear Form; [stance:2] Cat Form

I use it for breaking snares and roots as well. The problem I'm running into is I believe powershifting is affected by the previous ability's GCD. Is this correct, because from moderate latency(200ms), would you really only have about 600ms time to place the powershift correctly?
Powershifting doesn't work if you're in the GCD. You can /cancelform while under the GCD, but shifting back in is a spellcast. So yes, you'll always clip 1.5s off your tick. Even with that, 40 energy > 20 energy and it seems like the first tick after a powershift comes in about half a normal tick.

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Old 02/21/08, 4:14 PM   #2104
Malazaar
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gul'dan (EU)
Originally Posted by Deathwing View Post
Which part? The second one is right.


Anyway, about powershifting, maybe I've got my macro wrong, but I'm never able to time it right in such that it doesn't clip the next energy tick. This is my powershift macro:

/cast [stance:1] Bear Form; [stance:2] Cat Form

I use it for breaking snares and roots as well. The problem I'm running into is I believe powershifting is affected by the previous ability's GCD. Is this correct, because from moderate latency(200ms), would you really only have about 600ms time to place the powershift correctly?
Yes, if you use that macro while still in gcd you'll end up in caster form. That means that powershifting in cat form requires you to wait 1s after your last special before hitting the powershift button (clipping your energy tick and decreasing maximum powershifting gain to 30 energy).

Still, getting 20 energy per powershift is still worth it if you time it right.

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Old 02/21/08, 4:27 PM   #2105
FAME
Von Kaiser
 
FAME's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon
Last nights Teron I got 1925 dps, Rawr has me listed doing around 1800 with my gear and the same buffs. Did I just get lucky with OoC // 2pcT4 procs?

-i was putting up mangles
-i forgot to use agi elixir
-group comp was 2 rog, enh sham, war, and myself.
-gear that i had on ( The World of Warcraft Armory )
-no world buffs, only raid and 20 agi food and elemental sharp stone.
-i know i screwed up on my powershifting about 3-4 times

wws: Skit - WWS

Last edited by FAME : 02/21/08 at 4:34 PM.

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Old 02/21/08, 4:34 PM   #2106
oldmandennis
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Maeltne View Post
It took some searching to find your post, but I did.

Hmm, yes.

I always did 154-103=51 as spare item points.

But it is really (103^1.5 + X^1.5)^.6666 = (154^1.5)^.6666

Solving for X yields 93.

154 defence is greater than 103 resilience and 51 agilty, but not 93 agility.

Hmmm, back to the drawing board....
Well this isn't exactly right. It only really applies if you have an item with just defense, and can replace it with an item of comparable ilevel and resilience and agility in the correct ratios. However, you can't just free hand items into whatever you need them to be. Everybody needs to take a hard look at what gear is available to them, and choose the way to be uncrittable that gives up the least.

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Old 02/21/08, 4:41 PM   #2107
Kadaan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by FAME View Post
Last nights Teron I got 1925 dps, Rawr has me listed doing around 1800 with my gear and the same buffs. Did I just get lucky with OoC // 2pcT4 procs?

-i was putting up mangles
-i forgot to use agi elixir
-group comp was 2 rog, enh sham, war, and myself.
-gear that i had on ( The World of Warcraft Armory )
-no world buffs, only raid and 20 agi food and elemental sharp stone.
-i know i screwed up on my powershifting about 3-4 times

wws: Skit - WWS
Did you adjust the armor slider down from 7700 (default) to 6200 (Teron) ?

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Old 02/21/08, 4:55 PM   #2108
Maeltne
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by oldmandennis View Post
Well this isn't exactly right. It only really applies if you have an item with just defense, and can replace it with an item of comparable ilevel and resilience and agility in the correct ratios. However, you can't just free hand items into whatever you need them to be. Everybody needs to take a hard look at what gear is available to them, and choose the way to be uncrittable that gives up the least.
Quite right. I didn't say I guess Res is better, I said back to the drawing board. Which pretty much means what you say. It's going to have to be on an item by item basis.

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Old 02/21/08, 5:01 PM   #2109
Malazaar
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gul'dan (EU)
Originally Posted by FAME View Post
Last nights Teron I got 1925 dps, Rawr has me listed doing around 1800 with my gear and the same buffs. Did I just get lucky with OoC // 2pcT4 procs?

-i was putting up mangles
-i forgot to use agi elixir
-group comp was 2 rog, enh sham, war, and myself.
-gear that i had on ( The World of Warcraft Armory )
-no world buffs, only raid and 20 agi food and elemental sharp stone.
-i know i screwed up on my powershifting about 3-4 times

wws: Skit - WWS
- extreme luck with 2pcT4 (more than 50% more than average for that length of fight)
- same with ooc
- 6x drums of battle / 1x bloodlust (not sure that is included in rawr)
- 61% crit on shreds (i don't assume you got that much crit so luck there too).

nontheless impressive dps

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Old 02/21/08, 5:03 PM   #2110
Astrylian
Rawr
 
Astrylian's Avatar
 
Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Kadaan View Post
Did you adjust the armor slider down from 7700 (default) to 6200 (Teron) ?
And also did you up the Bloodlust uptime and Drum uptimes to whatever they would be? (probably 25-30% and 100%).

Beyond that, yeah, luck plays a huge role, especially in short fights like Teron.

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Old 02/21/08, 5:03 PM   #2111
FAME
Von Kaiser
 
FAME's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Kadaan View Post
Did you adjust the armor slider down from 7700 (default) to 6200 (Teron) ?
yes, in fact i just went back into Rawr to re-plug all the items and buffs and it listed me as 1676.999 DPS

playing around with Bloodlust uptime, it would have had to be up 90% to reach the DPS that I had.

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Old 02/21/08, 5:23 PM   #2112
Mijae
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by FAME View Post
yes, in fact i just went back into Rawr to re-plug all the items and buffs and it listed me as 1676.999 DPS

playing around with Bloodlust uptime, it would have had to be up 90% to reach the DPS that I had.
Part could come from combinations of buffs as well. Most abilities and proc/use items are modelled as averages. However, if you have things like Bloodlust, Drums, and Beserker's Call all up at the same time the dynamics are improved and are probably not modelled that way. Getting OoC procs and powershifting (for more shreds) while these are active can increase it as well. This is why active abilities are generally more powerful than passive even if they average to the same.

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Old 02/21/08, 5:30 PM   #2113
Malazaar
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gul'dan (EU)
Bloodlust is usually modelled as activated once in 10 Minutes, your fight is less than 3 - you also got to use your trinket 2 times which is modelled for once every 2 minutes. That plus the incredible high proc and crit rates as i already mentioned should make up for the difference.

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Old 02/21/08, 5:31 PM   #2114
Kioga
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Azgalor
Help a Brother out?

I have read the opening page but i thought i would try and get some input from fellow raiders as to which trinkets they prefer. My guild has long past Gruul's and not that many of us even pug it so i have pretty much given up on the coveted
DST. Right now im using the Tsunami Talisman and the Crystalforged trinket. Also, i only have 67 hit (know i need more but I rarely seem to miss) and 25 expertise.

1)So is Madness of the Betrayer a big enough upgrade in DPS to warrant replacing one of my current trinkets?

2) Is Idol of the White stag worth spending DKP on when i already have Everbloom, Terro, and the Raven idols and where does it fall as far as DPS output to the others?

3) is there a point i should add more AP (or STR) instead of agi/crit?
I could give an Amory link but its a radi night so who knows what gear i will be in. I will say that in DPS gear im 4/5 T4 with 3307 AP and 39.42 crit UNBUFFED. dont reckon thats very impressive to some end raiders but its what Iv got to work with.

4) Is Dukes STR and AGI forulas correct for cat form stats post 2.3 patch? STR=2.49 seems a lil high when i thought they said they were nerfing it in 2.3 whereas AGI was getting a boost.

5) Assuming i wanted to add more overall AP, is it better to focus on STR or pure AP when selecting gear and gems?
Obviously i will still be trying to find the item with the most Agi but this question has been buggin me for awhile. I know that we now get 10% bonus to toal AP but each point of AP seems to give less overall AP as stacking STR if that makes any sense. However, when i did my own test by swapping gems and enchants, the total AP seem to remain the same.

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Old 02/21/08, 5:35 PM   #2115
• Vykromond
the staleness of Max's dumps
 
Vykromond's Avatar
 
Vykromond
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
1) Yes. Use a DPS calculator. It's certainly better than Crystalforged...

2) No.

3) No.

4) Believe so.

5) Not pure AP.

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