Feral Megathread - Page 149

raffy · 05/16/08, 2:46 AM

Originally Posted by Odas

Raffy,

Would it be possible to get either /ps to take an arguement that specifies the threshold or a way to remove the text when you do change the threshold via /feralkit ps energy ##? I ask because I'd like to be able to have different thresholds for different abilities. I want to powershift at less than 18 for shred, but only less than 15 for mangle.

Also, /cf does not check to see if either you do not have enough mana to shift back, or if all the potions are on cooldown. If you dont have enough mana, you shift out and stay out, if the potion is on cooldown, you shift out and back in without drinking anything.

I do like your setup though Raffy, much clearer to see whats going on.

-- I'll readd the argument to ps() but make it optional (which would use the default if unspecified).
-- I added additional checks to cf()
-- I guess a smarter /use potion type command would be nice, to pre-check cooldowns (should be very simple to implement) -- I'll probably make it an optional argument to cf().
-- I was thinking it might be nice to have a mana threshold also, like sloppy shifts at 80% mana, tighter shifts at 40%, and the completely stop below 20% (or something too that effect) -- and this should have some kind of very minimal visual indicator.

I'll make another update tomorrow evening.

ultima88 · 05/16/08, 3:08 AM

First off, AWESOME macro Maeltne.
-Haste Potion is item number 22838, not whatever you have listed in the macro.
Edit to say the problem I ran into didn't happen again. But the item number needs to be changed.

Pizoi · 05/16/08, 3:17 AM

Don't mean to be a downer, but does anyone know if this is actually considered legitimate by Blizzard? I was under the assumption that conditional macros were weeded out a while back, and that this may be considered some type of exploit.

Regardless, I'm still using it until they make it so we can't. Tried it out in todays raid, and loved it.

Astrylian · 05/16/08, 4:34 AM

Official blizzard stance is that anything that you can do with the default interface except cross-faction communication is allowed. If they don't like it, they'll break the functionality that lets it happen. However, I don't see any way for them to do that, that wouldn't break quite alot more. Besides, I don't expect them to spend much time on updates outside of WotLK. It's probably just like totem twisting, ignite rolling, etc... It's there, they didn't intend it, but they're not gunna fix it until WotLK, and we won't care at that point, cause the whole game will change anyway.

Spookeh · 05/16/08, 4:38 AM

Love the last few pages, a giant leap for kitten-kind.

question: (this may require 2T4, 2T6, and Wolfshead Helm to be viable, but) can a mana-dumping 12-sec cycle realistically become this:

Mangle
Shred
Shred
(shred if needed)
Ferocious Bite
Shred
Shred
(shred if needed)
Rip

With the powershift energy settings at 22 for shred, it won't be mana-sustainable for long, but while the mana holds out it should be high, high dps.

Edit, early look at this, you'd really want to be hitcapped/expertise capped. doing specials almost every attack means the price of missing is very high, and as the 'consolation prize' spare energy you get when you miss is of less use here as you'll want to be shifting constantly anyway.

Also, 2T4 isn't required, it just lowers the mana cost similar to omen of clarity.

a sample, speculative 2T6 / wolfshead cycle is:
(3 mangle/shreds per finishing move assumed, 50% crit rate puts you on '4.5' combo points average)

<start on 8 energy from previous cycle>
shift 60
mangle 25
wait 45
shred 3
shift 60
shred 18
shift 60
Ferocious Bite 25
wait 45
shred 3
shift 60
shred 18
shift 60
shred 18
wait 38
rip 8

(energy costs indicated are energy remaining after the move is done)

is there time to do all that in 12 seconds? Clearcasting and 2T4 will help but not reliable. its 5 powershifts (!) and 3 tick-waits per cycle.

Malthoreniel · 05/16/08, 5:30 AM

Many thanks for addon-ifying the macros, raffy. I'll check it out when I get home.

Do stun effects/debuffs always contain the word "stun" in their description? If that is the case, it should be easy to create a stun safe BearStand. Otherwise a compilation of all stun effects is needed. Since there are many NPC spells with the same name, I sure hope there is a way to distinguish those without comparing the complete tooltip. :/

On the energy thresholds: do remember that there is an opportunity cost in energy that is at least 10 (GCD of the last attack), plus any time you waste between the last energy tick and the powershift. So the true wasted energy is much bigger relative to the gain than it appears.

Illkudos · 05/16/08, 5:53 AM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

IsUsableSpell() does not check for being stunned. But an addon could be written to watch your debuffs, and every time one with "stunned" in the description was applied, set some variable to 1, then when it fades, set it to nil. Then you could check that in macros.

Sounds nice, but lacking of a debuff-scanner for now, what about just equipping my [Medallion of the Alliance] when there's a risk of being stunned? Automatically used by my bearstance-macro, it's cooldown is also 2 minutes like pots and healthstones, so it won't matter cause the CDs aren't shared or connected anyways.. right?

Nice macros indeed, thank you Malthoreniel! I haven't tested the FeralKit addon by raffy because the posted macros do fine enough for me, I had no problem with the char-limit yet.

But the idea of an 'all-in-one' feral addon somehow seems intriguing .. since I like to play around with different unit-frames and setups, I always preferred extra addons for all my feral stuff, and didn't rely on i.e. the feral forms' manabar from Pitbull, Xperl, ag_uf, Grid or whatever today's choice was. So now I have like a ton of different addons (and hence lots of little things on screen) for all the stuff that matters mostly just for ferals:

- ClassTimers -> duration-bars for my own rip-, mangle- and FFF (and also for HoTs on me, my target or focus)
- FeralDebuffList -> shows target's feral debuffs .. shines with other ferals in raid
- PowerAuras -> helps me visually noting OOC-proccs and CD-related stuff
- IceHud -> atm just for the energy-ticker near the center of the screen
- Quartz -> GCD ticker
- SmartyCatManaBar -> shows mana in forms
- Damnation -> clears BoS buff when in bear (can't trust the pallies ^^)
- TauntWarn -> used to configure raid-warnings when taunt misses (I'm trying to check if BattleCry or RBM could be configured to do that too.. I also want to get one of them working for telling in my partychat if my Feral Charge did really silence someone or just snared)

- keybindings for several skills, macros, cam-movement ..
- macros for drums, bearstance, shift with pots/weaponswitches, powershifting-toggle and triggers, focus-related stuff

Does anyone else have that many addons and thinks that some of this (and things I surely forgot, but not necessarily all of the forementioned) could be reduced and compiled into a single addon? What do you think, call it FuFeral or whatever, could consist of in detail and what kind of combined display or interface would be suited in your opinion?

edit: corrected typos

Mijae · 05/16/08, 5:58 AM

Originally Posted by Spookeh

<start on 8 energy from previous cycle>
shift 60
mangle 25
wait 45
shred 3
shift 60
shred 18
shift 60
Ferocious Bite 25
wait 45
shred 3
shift 60
shred 18
shift 60
shred 18
wait 38
rip 8

(energy costs indicated are energy remaining after the move is done)

is there time to do all that in 12 seconds? Clearcasting and 2T4 will help but not reliable. its 5 powershifts (!) and 3 tick-waits per cycle.

That cycle includes 13 GCDs (Rip, FB, Mangle, 5xShred, 5xShift), the wait time, and any latency between attacks. That means at least 16-17 seconds. Plus, you're counting at 25 energy remaining after ferocious bite (when you'll always be at zero).

Also, as discussed previously, FB is only ever worth using with 5 CP. Any less an Shred will be more damage (even counting the 18 wasted energy). It's just not worth fitting FB in to the cycle.

Edgeworth · 05/16/08, 6:10 AM

EDIT: Ignore this useless post. Did the math myself and assuming 800 damage/tick on each mangle buffed bleed effect, missing 5% of mangles amounts to only 1 raid DPS lost per rogue/feral/dps warrior. Which clearly means that the theoretical benefit of being hit capped in itself is negligible.

Skysec · 05/16/08, 6:23 AM

With the new powershifting macros, I remember somebody mentioning that wisdom was required, does this mean that with only 3 pally buffs, we'd be running kings/salv/wisdom instead of kings/salv/might?

Is giving up might for more powershifts worth it?

Spookeh · 05/16/08, 7:15 AM

Mijae- Thanks for explaining

Carlos · 05/16/08, 7:34 AM

Originally Posted by Skysec

With the new powershifting macros, I remember somebody mentioning that wisdom was required, does this mean that with only 3 pally buffs, we'd be running kings/salv/wisdom instead of kings/salv/might?

Is giving up might for more powershifts worth it?

It gives you more use on long fights. It is not required.

Allev · 05/16/08, 10:12 AM

The longer (with constant attacking) the fight, the more useful Wisdom is. Of course, it all depends on how much you're shifting and what mana consumables you'll be using. If you use an [Elixir of Draenic Wisdom], get IDS (or alternatively, have spirit scrolls), use mana pots, have a shaman in-group who's dropping totems...

Even in the previous scenario I would only have been OOM without any of the above consumables/regen items: 8 minute fight, wisdom is 40 mana/5, so 40x12x8 = 3840 mana. I had 4k mana left, after a bres. So even in the worst situation, I didn't NEED it (although my shifting wasn't very aggressive).

Someone who's familiar with shaman mechanics-- can every shaman drop mana totems? Or more precisely, is it a pain for an enhancement shaman to drop mana totems for a feral?

Yaelle · 05/16/08, 10:19 AM

These are the available water totems.

* Disease Cleansing Totem
* Fire Resistance Totem
* Healing Stream Totem
* Mana Spring Totem
* Mana Tide Totem (not available to enhancement shamans)
* Poison Cleansing Totem

I'd say no. Mana is also not an issue because the totem obviously restores more mana than it's cost.
It's however another GCD.

Allev · 05/16/08, 10:45 AM

But it's a GCD only every 2 minutes, correct?

• DirtySanch · 05/16/08, 10:49 AM

Is this really any different then AutoMacro which blizzard has been removing from everywhere its been seen? Conditional macros were what blizzard tried to get rid of before and now they are back and even more complex then before.

Yaelle · 05/16/08, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Allev

But it's a GCD only every 2 minutes, correct?

Correct. It should not be a problem -situational of course- as always depending on the encounter.

Xelopheris · 05/16/08, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Yaelle

Correct. It should not be a problem -situational of course- as always depending on the encounter.

A good enhance will always have it down for himself and the ret pally with him. It's free mana.
(unless he has to drop poison/disease cleansing, but I can't think of any bosses besides moroes and romulo that do that)

Astrylian · 05/16/08, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by DirtySanch

Is this really any different then AutoMacro which blizzard has been removing from everywhere its been seen? Conditional macros were what blizzard tried to get rid of before and now they are back and even more complex then before.

Nope, this isn't AutoMacro. This only works based on form switching. I believe I know how AutoMacro works, and that's different.

Maeltne · 05/16/08, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by ultima88

First off, AWESOME macro Maeltne.
-Haste Potion is item number 22838, not whatever you have listed in the macro.
Edit to say not problem I ran into didn't happen again. But the item number needs to be changed.

Fixed, I have *NO* idea where I got the other number. And don't thank me - thank Malthoreniel. I'm just a leech that made minor changes.

Also can anyone tell me why this line isn't doing what I expect? I'm stuck...

/run local b="Dire Bear Form";b=GetSpellCoolDown(b)>0 or not IsUsableSpell(b) or CancelPlayerBuff(b) end;

It *should* drop you out of bear form, provided you aren't on GCD and you have enough mana to get back in.

Also I ran out of mana on Najentus with the powershift shred threshold set to 18. I'm going to try 16. Although I don't see much difference for anything between 22 and 2, it's still going to be 2 ticks.

Also got our first kill on Kalecgos last night - it was messy as hell - only 3 people alive at the end.

Tinweasele · 05/16/08, 12:13 PM

Would it be possible to get a video of someone who is good at getting the double mangle to post it up? i spent a good 30 min -> hour last night in blasted lands and got like 1 double and 5 no mangles and that was IT.

kalbear · 05/16/08, 12:45 PM

Also can anyone tell me why this line isn't doing what I expect? I'm stuck...

Yes. You have the 'end' at the end. That's only useful with the if-then-end script. If you don't have an if, you don't want an end.

MisterMerf · 05/16/08, 12:57 PM

Regarding this conditional powershifting macro setup and energy loss...

Raffy's new mod reports energy wasted per shift. However, I was under the impression that shifting reset your energy tick counter. Therefore, even with perfect shifting you are losing half an energy tick. This being the case, the mod should (in my opinion) report wasted energy as ([energy at time of shift] + 20 * [% distance between energy ticks]). So for a shift at 16 energy the instant the GCD is available, you would waste 16 + 20*(1/2) = 26 energy.

Example:
Time En Ability
0.0 0 Mangle
1.0 40 Shift
3.0 60 *Tick*
3.0 18 Shred
4.0 40 Shift
6.0 60 *Tick*
6.0 18 Shred

Correct?

Valerian · 05/16/08, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by MisterMerf

Regarding this conditional powershifting macro setup and energy loss...

Raffy's new mod reports energy wasted per shift. However, I was under the impression that shifting reset your energy tick counter. Therefore, even with perfect shifting you are losing half an energy tick.

Example:
Time En Ability
0.0 0 Mangle
1.0 40 Shift
3.0 60 *Tick*
3.0 18 Shred
4.0 40 Shift
6.0 60 *Tick*
6.0 18 Shred

Correct?

This is correct. I notice it with my energy ticker mod which doesnt reset its "tick" time when I power shift. If I do it right and shift when the bar is half full (1 sec after my attack usually) the next tick comes with the bar is half full again, ie a full 2 seconds later. So a well timed shift at 20 energy really only nets you a 10 energy gain.

ecopsorn · 05/16/08, 2:35 PM

Hey guys

I'm new to this forum but I've been reading it for quite a time

Your discussion about the new powershift macros is great and therefore I wanted to try it out.

I'm playing on a German client and it might be the reason why none of your macro posts in this forum worked for me

I've tried the macros from Maeltne and get the following error message:
Fehler:attempt to compare number with nil
Codezeile:if pws then local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCo...
Fehler Nummer:1

The FeralKit addon gives me following error message:
Fehler: attempt to compare number with nil
Datei:Interface\AddOns\FeralKit\core.lua
Zeile:101
Fehler Nummer:1

therefore the thing doesn't work and the makros are greyed out. Has anybody a clue why it doesn't work?

thx
ecopsorn

EDIT: I just figured out that the BareStand Makro also doesn't work at my place:

/y !!! BearStand !!!
/use 13
/use 14
/run local b="Dire Bear Form";b=GetSpellCoolDown(b)>0 or not IsUsableSpell(b) or CancelPlayerBuff(b) end;
/stopmacro [form]
/use Master Healthstone
/use item:32905
/use item:22829
/use item:23822
/cast Dire Bear Form

it got to be a problem with the German client, no?? I don't think it matters if there are English or German expressions of the form, but what else could be the problem?