I've just told you that hit (relative to other stats) sucks for Warriors and Shaman. It might be important for you, but that's irrelevant. If you want a +hit talent, argue for one without bringing up incomplete and incorrect comparisons to other classes.
Yes and no. Hit rating does suck for shamans, but only because you already get 9% hit from talents. If you didn't have that hit rating would be important UNTIL you reach the 9% hit. All he is try to saying that in terms of lowering Miss chance (actual miss, dodge or parry) feral druids have none whereas all other melee classes get one or more options. However i do agree with you that it is pointless to draw a one on one comparison of talents.
- Taking an action that you ordinarily couldn't take because you were in a form now removes the form and performs the action (ex: you can cast Desperate Prayer in Shadowform, but it shifts you out).
- More generally, there's no global cooldown on exiting any forms
They have implemented the /cancelform changes in the new PTW patch. So far I can use this macro while in bear form:
/cancelform
/cast [nostance] Dire Bear Form
and it will instantly shift me out and back into bear form.
Now a small problem I have is that I used this macro to change back to caster form, but now it changes me straight back to bear form :P
So I think I might just have a generic "/cancelform" macro and hotkey that to return to caster form.
Anyway, I'll go test the instant potting now and update this post.
UPDATE 1: Using the potion macro from bear form does work now (Start in bear form, click the macro, +heal happens, and I appear back in bear form). I'll try out that autoUnshift stuff now.
UPDATE 2: With my 2p T5 bonus and autoUnshift, I can press Regrowth in bear form and here is the order I saw it happen before the world server died:
1. Press Regrowth
2. I appear to cast the regrowth in bear form (the bear swung his paw like with FF)
3. I then appeared in caster form right after the regrowth went off.
UPDATE 3: Actually the regrowth just happens instantly. Also, the pot macro from bear form worked with autoUnshift off. I think I might go try some power shifting :P
UPDATE 4: autoUnshift doesn't work for potions, and there were some interesting results with power shifting:
Shift 1 (From Caster to Cat form, the rest are Cat to Cat using the macro at the bottom of my post)
10/20 15:25:48.390 You gain Cat Form.
10/20 15:25:48.406 You gain Leader of the Pack.
10/20 15:25:48.406 You gain Track Humanoids.
10/20 15:25:48.421 You gain 40 Energy from Furor.
Shift 2
10/20 15:25:52.890 You gain 40 Energy from Furor.
Shift 3
10/20 15:25:57.468 Track Humanoids fades from you.
10/20 15:25:57.703 You gain 40 Energy from Furor.
10/20 15:25:58.140 You gain Track Humanoids.
Shift 4 (I may have messed this one up. I was having some trouble since I couldn't use my macro while the GCD was up. It would just leave me in caster form. So it might have happened here, I can't remember)
10/20 15:26:02.812 Cat Form fades from you.
10/20 15:26:02.828 Leader of the Pack fades from you.
10/20 15:26:02.828 Track Humanoids fades from you.
10/20 15:26:03.062 You gain Cat Form.
10/20 15:26:03.062 You gain Leader of the Pack.
10/20 15:26:03.062 You gain Track Humanoids.
10/20 15:26:03.390 You gain 40 Energy from Furor.
Shift 5
10/20 15:26:08.109 You gain 40 Energy from Furor.
Shift 6
10/20 15:26:12.421 Track Humanoids fades from you.
10/20 15:26:12.656 You gain 40 Energy from Furor.
10/20 15:26:13.031 You gain Track Humanoids.
Shift 7
10/20 15:26:16.546 Track Humanoids fades from you.
10/20 15:26:16.781 You gain Track Humanoids.
10/20 15:26:17.140 You gain 40 Energy from Furor.
- I wasn't trying to optimize my shifting times (someone else can do that now :P), I was just looking at how it worked.
- This was used with a similar macro to my bear one:
/cancelform
/cast [nostance] Cat Form
- I live in Australia, so I think the variance in the combat log for each shift is due to latency (I usually have about 450ms).
Pot/Healthstone macros are working marvelously. Going from being completely unable to use them to getting more benefit from them than anyone save an alchemist stone user.
Drums are instant cast and can be used in feral forms. This should prove much more useful for DPS group.
Powershifting is absolutely amazing in response time, I am really looking forward to utilizing this more, now just to get a working druidbar.
All this combined with the improvements for AP and Feral AP, looks like a solid fix patch for ferals.
This works really well but now we need a druid mana bar that works with that ^^
I am currently using Pitbull and the bar is only updated when I see myself going to the normal form to cat form (due to having a huge ping on test realm I often see me in this form before returning to cat).
Would have also liked a cut in stamina for some more offensive stats but at least I'll replace stranglestaff with it now.
That's rather nice.
From Toskks (4000 AP, 48% crit, 127 hit, which is what I would be at with raid buffs but no weapon):
DPS = 1146.798005522684
DPS:AP = 5.24093186521409
Str:AP = 2.265999999999547
Agi:AP = 2.942994184851378
Crit Rating:AP = 1.8086719473429518
Hit Rating:AP = 1.8324796791183116
Weapon Dmg:AP = 11.061657390250005
Expertise Rating:AP = 1.8324796791183116
Haste Rating:AP = 1.4665791861823476
Armor Penetration:AP = 0.35140722145119146
Primal Man-Catcher -
49 agi = 144.07
973 AP = 1070 AP
315 ArmPen: 110.6
Total score: 1324
Merciless Glad -
42 str = 94.92
1010 AP = 1111
42 Crit = 75.6
18 Hit = 33
Total score: 1314.92
It's pretty much equal - if you're already hit capped then the Primal is going to be better by a decent margin. Obviously neither is as good as the vengeful gladiator (over 100 APE ahead), but it won't be that easy to get 1850 rating quickly in some battlegroups. Still a shame that it has such a ridiculous amount of stamina though :<
Now only Vengefull, Merciless and Pillar to go -.- Report them on the PTR!
I believe it's already been explained why the Arena Maces/Staff cannot have Agility, due to the increasing cost of stats on the high end of an item. If anything, they did their absolute best to maximize the iLvL for those levels of gear.
The Pillar, on the other hand, has no excuse for still being the failure that it is. They should be aware that it's redundant to make a 'hybrid' weapon. I shall be reporting it for greater justice.
I believe it's already been explained why the Arena Maces/Staff cannot have Agility, due to the increasing cost of stats on the high end of an item. If anything, they did their absolute best to maximize the iLvL for those levels of gear.
By that you mean it can't have critrating replaced 1:1 ? I know that's not possible, but even if they replaced it with a lower amount of agility equal to the itempoints of the critrating, it would be a much better weapon.
I have just tried casting spells while catform/bearform
it is cool but i used to actionbar changing and seeing all caster spells there, now it look like we will be a class with most hotkeys ever: main hotkeys for all feral abilities + we need at least 5 (rejuv, regrowth, lifebloom, cyclone, roots) new hotkeys while staying in feral.
also I noticed that cant cast instant regrowth while moving in form (have t5 bonus 2 items bonus)
! but when before moving iin form selecting on my 'spellbook' regrowth> mouseovering target >start move> press left mousekey> it works!
I believe it's already been explained why the Arena Maces/Staff cannot have Agility, due to the increasing cost of stats on the high end of an item. If anything, they did their absolute best to maximize the iLvL for those levels of gear.
The Pillar, on the other hand, has no excuse for still being the failure that it is. They should be aware that it's redundant to make a 'hybrid' weapon. I shall be reporting it for greater justice.
Unless something has changed, the cost to add 1 point of agility is exactly the same as it is to add one point of strength, one critical strike rating, one dodge rating, etc.
That's what always made something like Wildfury Greatstaff a bit mindboggling.
Right now, it could be 500 armor, 54 agility (instead of 54 dodge rating), and 75 stamina without changing the item level. More dodge, more crit, AP in cat form, and agility scales with kings and SotF would make this weapon a lot better.
The argument for agility is that any item that has X strength or Y critical strike rating could have that particular stat replaced with X agility or Y agility, maintain the exact same item level, and be better for a Druid.
Wait, where can I read more about the Arena stave/maces discussion? I do know that T4 gloves got its crit converted to Agility at a 1:1 ratio. I'm curious now!
What is the proc rate of 2 piece T4?
Theoretically, with omen of clarity and 2t4, what crit % do you need to keep a rip of at least 4 combo points up at all time? I know you can't depend on a proc or a crit, but we should be able to make an ideal estimate.
What is the proc rate of 2 piece T4?
Theoretically, with omen of clarity and 2t4, what crit % do you need to keep a rip of at least 4 combo points up at all time? I know you can't depend on a proc or a crit, but we should be able to make an ideal estimate.
Here we go again: 4% on all attacks, so yes it scales with haste. With a crit% of 47% and 2t4 you have a cycle length of 15 seconds.
Here we go again: 4% on all attacks, so yes it scales with haste. With a crit% of 47% and 2t4 you have a cycle length of 15 seconds.
Why not a 12 second cycle since rip is 12 seconds? Is it better to let the rip debuff tick off before reapplying it? (now that I think about it you may HAVE to let it tick off before you are allowed to rip again)
So in 15 seconds you get 150 energy gain, plus ~19(0.04x20) for about 165 energy per cycle. That's enough for 1 rip and slightly more than 3 shreds. OOC means about 45% of the time you will get 4 shreds in. 55% of the time you would need 2 crits out of 3 for 5 CP, and 45% of the time you would need 1 out of 4 to crit. Or in other words, you need ~%47.6 crit. The math was for my benefit mostly, but I thought I should post it here since the original math is presumably in one of the locked threads.
Why not a 12 second cycle since rip is 12 seconds? Is it better to let the rip debuff tick off before reapplying it? (now that I think about it you may HAVE to let it tick off before you are allowed to rip again)
So in 15 seconds you get 150 energy gain, plus ~19(0.04x20) for about 165 energy per cycle. That's enough for 1 rip and slightly more than 3 shreds. OOC means about 45% of the time you will get 4 shreds in. 55% of the time you would need 2 crits out of 3 for 5 CP, and 45% of the time you would need 1 out of 4 to crit. Or in other words, you need ~%47.6 crit. The math was for my benefit mostly, but I thought I should post it here since the original math is presumably in one of the locked threads.
If you want in-depth calculations, study the Javascript sourcecode on Tosks/Tangdelyn DPS calculator The Druid Wiki » ToskksDPSGearMethod . It's pretty much 99% accurate.
Unless something has changed, the cost to add 1 point of agility is exactly the same as it is to add one point of strength, one critical strike rating, one dodge rating, etc.
That's what always made something like Wildfury Greatstaff a bit mindboggling.
Right now, it could be 500 armor, 54 agility (instead of 54 dodge rating), and 75 stamina without changing the item level. More dodge, more crit, AP in cat form, and agility scales with kings and SotF would make this weapon a lot better.
The argument for agility is that any item that has X strength or Y critical strike rating could have that particular stat replaced with X agility or Y agility, maintain the exact same item level, and be better for a Druid.
I suspect the reason they put dodge rating on the Wildfury was to turn it into a pure tanking staff and not a tank/dps hybrid staff.
I'd quite like something similar with the pillar and substitute the strength for dodge rating or expertise. Personally I'd prefer if it was changed into expertise, something that feral tanks can have a hard time getting and then it would also be different from the Wildfury instead of just being a Wildfury Mark II.
I'd quite like something similar with the pillar and substitute the strength for dodge rating or expertise. Personally I'd prefer if it was changed into expertise, something that feral tanks can have a hard time getting and then it would also be different from the Wildfury instead of just being a Wildfury Mark II.
I would like to not have to spend 3800 arena points just to get a DPS upgrade at the T6 level. I am not sure why Archimonde, Teron, and Reliquary all drop 2handed weapons when fury warriors dual wield and arms warriors don't belong in raids. I don't know why both Archimonde AND Illidan drop bows.
The Washington Post helps perpetuate a common and pernicious misreading of the decision, referring to "the Supreme Court’s judgment that corporations have the same rights as people when it comes to political speech." What the Supreme Court actually said is that people do not lose their free speech rights when they organize as corporations, including nonprofit interest groups as well as businesses.
There are a couple of reasons why Pillar of Ferocity is bad. It also leads in to why our PVE weapons are inferior to our PVP ones for DPS.
The reason that is most obvious to people is the lack of focused stats (tank or dps). Tank stats are Armor, Stamina, Agility (or the inferior Dodge), Expertise, Defense and Resilience. DPS stats are Agility (or the inferior Crit), Hit, Expertise, Strength and Armor Penetration. Feral Attack Power is the defining characteristic of a feral weapon, so that's always on there regardless. PoF has 2 tank stats and 1 dps stat (and a poor one at that), making it a "hybrid" item.
What makes it worse is that it is one of the few Epic feral weapons with less than 5 mods (including FAP).
If you look at that list, the best tanking weapons have the most number of tanking stats (3-4). Equally, the best DPS weapons have the most number of DPS stats (2-3).
Ideally, Tanking weapons should have 4 tanking mods on them (out of Armor, Agility, Stamina, Expertise and Defense) and FAP. Ideally, DPS weapons should have 3 or 4 DPS mods on them (out of Agility, Hit, Expertise, Strength and Armor Penetration), some stamina (although not as much as a tanking weapon would have) and FAP. If Blizzard would actually do that for our PVE weapons, we wouldn't have anywhere near as much to complain about.
Feral have a 15% chance to resist fear with talents and a 15% chance to resist AoE effects with talents. I know it use to be that you then had a 30% chance to resist AoE fears. Now that we get Fear ward on both sides, but it has a longer cooldown. Would a resisted fear eat a fear ward proc or would the fear ward go off before you had a chance to resist it?
Resisted fears don't consume fear ward under the dwarf/draeni version, though of course they could change that. Also, I don't think it's actually a 30% chance to resist, I think it's 2 seperate 15% rolls, which is more like 27% (not a huge difference, just pointing it out).
I would like to not have to spend 3800 arena points just to get a DPS upgrade at the T6 level. I am not sure why Archimonde, Teron, and Reliquary all drop 2handed weapons when fury warriors dual wield and arms warriors don't belong in raids. I don't know why both Archimonde AND Illidan drop bows.
Not to derail but arms warriors are great in raids. With blood frenzy factored in they provide nearly identical raid dps as a fury warrior
Ret pallies will also be viable in 2.3 and they can use the two handers as well. This doesn't excuse them from not making an end game feral staff, but hey.
Yes, they are useful. However, i'm of the opinion that 3 2H-Weapons is at least one too many. In our raid, every single Warrior (def, fury and arms) and every single Paladin has a BT/MH 2H Weapon - and we only farm Illidan for about 1.5 months.
Tit won't be that easy to get 1850 rating quickly in some battlegroups. Still a shame that it has such a ridiculous amount of stamina though :<
Yah 1850 rating is no easy task unless you already have a steady group that can reach it now. The high amount of stamina does hurt that item budget, but that does somewhat help the item be useful in bear form as well.
WRT to the high number of 2H and two end-boss bows, not other do Arms and Ret Pallies like 2Hers, your Holy Pallies (maybe Shaman too, since they get 2H skill for free soon) would not mind having a 130+ dps weapon for when they have to farm and level to 80.
One of the bows is only a hunter weapon (but the best), but the other one can be used by Rogues and Warriors.
Resisted fears don't consume fear ward under the dwarf/draeni version, though of course they could change that. Also, I don't think it's actually a 30% chance to resist, I think it's 2 seperate 15% rolls, which is more like 27% (not a huge difference, just pointing it out).
Well, the wording of primal tenacity is that it "increases your chance ... by 15%", so whatever your base chance is would be included. I always thought there was a 5% chance to resist most even-level spells, although I haven't done actual testing on this (has anyone else?). That would make it 20%. Predatory Instincts is a chance to avoid aoe effects; so it's less clear if this stacks directly with the (hopefully) 20% resistance. But avoiding and resisting a fear both show as resist so I would assume they are the same effect. As such I've always been optimistic that we had a 35% chance to resist level 70 aoe fears.
Can anyone suggest a good place to get aoe feared often, without taking excessive damage? I'd like to test this, but I don't have any pocket healers, so my options are limited. But I am aware of how much speculation is here, and I'd much rather not have to rely on it.
10/19/07, 8:32 AM
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