Duels with priests?

The Striders on Vashj, if your guild doesn't kill you for doing that =P

I've read a lot of conflicting info on the value of 2t4 vs. 4t6. I went with 4t6 and I am wondering if I made the wrong choice. My dps seems to have decreased a bit. Moreover, Toskk's druid calc suggests that 2t4 is significantly better for dps, which conflicts with this thread. Is the consensus still that the two set bonuses are about equal?

According to the consensus for this thread, 2t4 is better than 4t6, by a margin of less than 1%. So unless you gemmed differently on your T6, you should not be seeing a noticable dps loss

As has been stated in many other threads about DPS and gear, your playing style and things like if you didn't have CoR up during a fight and other environmental factors are likely to cause more variation in DPS than something a simple as a set bonus.

In most modelled settings (i.e. no lag, no human error, etc) with 2t4 and 4t6, 2t4 wins out over the 4t6 bonus. Taking into account lag, human error, screwing up powershifting so you lose a tick of the bonus, and other things like that, there will invariably be some loss in the 2t4 bonus, while the 4t6 bonus will suffer virtually no loss because of all these factors. It's entirely plausible that you're playing in a low lag environment without using powershifting (or just being very good at powershifting and not wasting procs) and so 2t4 would come out better for you.

As david said, you really shouldn't be seeing a noticeable difference between the two overall (unless you put pure stamina in t6 and pure agility in t4).

Putting in these stats to Toskks:
I get:
There's a pretty significant difference between the bonuses. Again though, this is assuming no lag, no human error, and other such "perfect" circumstances. Any boss where you aren't always attacking (something like Council, Kazrogal (stun), Azgalor (RoF), Winterchill (D'n'D), Archimonde) will also give more value to 4t6 because rip will account for more of your damage than other attacks, in general.

Also:

I heard that Elemental Sharpening Stones work in forms in a sort of offhand way from a couple of sources, but I couldnt find any proof, or even any discussion about it, and nearly everyone I checked with claimed they didn't, so I went off to test for myself. These were done completly unbuffed (apart from the stone) on level 54 mobs in blasted lands using white damage only.

Without a sharpening stone: 40.0% crit rate over 2263 attacks
With a sharpening stone: 41.3% crit rate over 1783 attacks

I think the confidance intervals overlap slightly, but it definitely seemed like the sharpening stone had an effect. So in either case I think I'm going to stock up on the things.

They go on both staves and two hand maces, even though they normally want Weightstones

I can definetely say they do work. Been using them for quite some time and actually thought that everyone knows about it (usable since MC / BWL times, even on the Hammer of Bestial Wrath).

Good to hear.

I know this is a bit late, but it should be noted that there's been findings indicating that something as simple as Faerie Fire can provide an additional ~4% DPS increase when stacked with 5 Sunders, plus allowing that much more threat to be generated. The GCD for a FF is a minuscule investment compared to the overall benefit you gain from the armor penetration.

In this same vein, I do think the Armor Penetration stats on the S3 and various new pieces of armor and weapons in 2.3 is a good evolution, better than Haste, for stat progression. I'm certainly anxious to see how the Sunwell loot turns out.

Using FF when at 0-10 energy, and voila, you dont need to worry about wasting a GCD since your only waiting for energy to get back.
It would mean wasting a powershift, but i doubt you will keep powershifting every time anyway. I know my mana will not allow it after 2.3.
Not using FF because of a GCD shouldnt even be an option.

If you're tanking something, and don't have Cats to keep up FF for you, then one GCD every 45 seconds (resists nonwithstanding) isn't a huge sacrifice in threat. In fact the extra threat you generate from the reduced armor will outweigh the 1 lost Lacerate or Swipe (don't use it on a Mangle GCD obviously), as well as allow higher RDPS. Bear shouldn't ever have a spare GCD, Rage permitting; it should be Mangle and Lacerate/Swipe on every one.

Cats have plenty of deadtime to use it, as noted above.

The /cancelform macros do work for pots/healthstone \o/ though I'd be loath to use them just for bonus Rage >.>

Something I spotted in the recent PTR patch notes:

"Creature AI has been changed to no longer prioritize attacking unfeared targets over feared targets."

Might be misinterpreting this but potentially this is a substantial buff to druid tanking in fear based encounters? Still means that positioning will get screwed up and runs the risk of the raid eating cleaves/breath effects or whatever but would mean that a fear on a bear tank no longer means that a dps class in melee range immediately gets a whole bunch of boss attention.

They did something like this to Nightbane a few patches ago, and it "kind of" "sort of" works "most of the time". Still had instances where he went chasing some Priest that resisted, but mostly he would stick to the feared tank. So I really hope this blanket implementation is more robust than what they did to Nightbane.

Surely this would make post-2.3 Fear Ward Druids very attractive for Archimonde? He doesn't Cleave or Breathe, so positioning issues would only be re: you getting feared into fire? I reckon with ~3-4 Priests + a Shaman for Tremor Totem + PvP trinket failsafe, we'd rock this fight.

Actually, that looks to me exactly what you said, a very significant buff for druids. Wiped in heroic sp last night with a solid group because those mobs towards the end can fear the tank then one shot the healer

As far as I can work out this "Nightbane" change was just an unsubstantiated rumor, the only time he currently chases a feared tank is when everyone is feared.
We had a warrior specifically test this after someone claimed it, I know its on Wowwiki but that doesn't mean its right.

The change as read in those patch notes does sounds like what we want, it means the healers won't get slaughtered while we run around feared and warriors still have the upper hand tanking fear based encounters because the mobs won't move.
Should probably note here that a feared druid is less likely to get killed while being beaten on than a warrior or paladin as they won't be blocking while feared so crushes will happen.

My Mage Twink got killed last night on nearly max distance, which is first hand for me, that it does not work.

Anyone who is on the PTR, is there any update on the [Pillar of Ferocity] - I'm not really fussed whether they want it to be a dps-upgrade or a tanking upgrade, I'd just rather it did one or the other rather better than it does. If it's a kitty stick, which it appears to be, the 96 stamina seems more than a little OTT.

Also, I'll try to update my tanking gear choices spreadsheet for the new badge gear in 2.3 and upload an updated spreadsheet, it's not as technical as some of the dps spreadsheets but it's nice for trying to balance your gear and still remain uncrittable as you upgrade.

Just checked on the PTR and I thought my pillar had +35 agi added to it, but then I realized it was just my +35 agi enchant with white text instead of the usual green :<

Anyway, its still the same.

The adamantite weightstone problem was that staves weren't considered as a blunt weapon, but it was patched some time ago already (2.1?) - anyway, it definitely works now, I used it no later than yesterday. The great thing is that since the buff is attached to the weapon, it stays after death, so it's 30 minutes of effective buff (whereas elixirs can be, say, 3 seconds of effective buff )

Hello I’ve been looking at making a Decision & Discreet Spreadsheet for dps “one that simulates rather then takes averages” and I just need some help verifying the assumptions and calculations I’m using.

(All of this is speculative i am asking for some verification not posting findings)

Assumptions

Energy Tick: 2 Seconds
Feral Base Dmg: 54.8
Boss Miss Chance: 9%
Mangle Miss/Dodge: Refunds 32 Energy “Costs 8 Energy”
Shred Miss/Dodge: Refunds 34 Energy “Costs 8 Energy”
Rip Miss/Dodge: Refunds 0 Energy “Costs 30 Energy”

The Attack Roll

How it works if I have
42% crit
5% Dodge Chance on Mob
2% Miss Chance on Mob
51% Hit

If I Get 2% Crit the figures become

44% Crit
5% Dodge Chance on Mob
2% Miss Chance on Mob
49% Hit

Calculations – Assumes Full Feral Dps Talents

White

( ( Feral Base Dmg + ( Attack Power/14 ) * 1.1 ’Naturalist’ ) * ( 1 – ‘Mob Dmg Reduction’ )

Eg: 2800 AP 10% dmg reduction

( ( 54.8 +( 2800/14 ) ) * 1.1 ) * ( 1 – 0.10 ) = 252

White Crit

( ( Feral Base Dmg + ( Attack Power/14 ) * 1.1 ’Naturalist ) * 2 ‘Crit’ * 1.1 ‘Predatory Instincts * 1.03 ‘Relentless Meta’ ) * ( 1 – ‘Mob Dmg Reduction’ )

Eg: 2800 AP 10% dmg reduction

( ( 54.8 +( 2800/14 ) ) * 1.1 ) * 2 * 1.1 * 1.03 * ( 1 – 0.10 ) = 572

Mangle

( ( Feral Base Dmg + ( Attack Power/14 ) * 1.1 ’Naturalist * 1.92 ’Mangle Dmg Modifier’ ) + 317 ’Additional Mangle Dmg’ ) ) * ( 1 – ‘Mob Dmg Reduction’ )

Eg: 2800 AP 10% dmg reduction

( ( 54.8 +( 2800/14 ) ) * 1.1 * 1.92 )+ 317 ) * ( 1 – 0.10 ) = 727

Mangle Crit

( ( Feral Base Dmg + ( Attack Power/14 ) * 1.1 ’Naturalist * 1.92 ’Mangle Dmg Modifier’ ) + 317 ’Additional Mangle Dmg’ ) * 2 ‘Crit’ * 1.1 ‘Predatory Instincts * 1.03 ‘Relentless Meta’ ) * ( 1 – ‘Mob Dmg Reduction’ )

Eg: 2800 AP 10% dmg reduction

( ( 54.8 +( 2800/14 ) ) * 1.1 * 1.92 )+ 317 ) * 2 * 1.1 * 1.03 * ( 1 – 0.10 ) = 1 744

Shred

( ( Feral Base Dmg + ( Attack Power/14 ) * 1.1 ’Naturalist * 2.25 ’Shred Dmg Modifier’ ) + 405 ’Additional Mangle Dmg’ + 88 ‘Everbloom Idol’ + 75 ‘4x T5 Bonus’ ) * 1.3 ‘Mangle Modifier’ ) * ( 1 – ‘Mob Dmg Reduction’ )

Eg: 2800 AP 10% dmg reduction

( ( 54.8 +( 2800/14 ) ) * 1.1 * 2.25 )+ 405 + 88+ 75 ) * 1.3 * ( 1 – 0.10 ) = 1402

Shred Crit

( ( Feral Base Dmg + ( Attack Power/14 ) * 1.1 ’Naturalist * 2.25 ’Shred Dmg Modifier’ ) + 405 ’Additional Mangle Dmg’ + 88 ‘Everbloom Idol’ + 75 ‘4x T5 Bonus’ ) * 1.3 ‘Mangle Modifier’ * 2 ‘Crit’ * 1.1 ‘Predatory Instincts * 1.03 ‘Relentless Meta’ ) * ( 1 – ‘Mob Dmg Reduction’ )

Eg: 2800 AP 10% dmg reduction

( ( 54.8 +( 2800/14 ) ) * 1.1 * 2.25 )+ 405 + 88+ 75 ) * 1.3 * 2 * 1.1 * 1.03 * ( 1 – 0.10 ) = 3178

5 Point Rip

( ( 1553 ‘Base 5 Point Dmg’ + ( 0.24 * Attack Power ) ) * 1.1 ‘Naturalist’ * 1.3 ‘Mangle Modifier’ * 1.15 ‘4x T6 Bonus’ )

Eg: 2800 AP

( ( 1553 + ( 0.24 * 2800 ) ) * 1.1 * 1.3 * 1.15 ) = 3659 or 610 / Tick

4 Point rip being + 1273 instead of 1553

Mechanics

Omen Of Clarity

how does this one work does it average out to x procs per minite useing just weapon speed?
Does it average out useing weapon speed with the inclusion of extra attacks from specials?
Basicly how do you calculate it.

Thanks for any feedback in advance

I believe yellow hits are on a 2 roll system, one to determine the hit/miss/dodge/parry etc part and then another to determine the hit/crit part. I seem to recall that being the case for rogues, I suspect its the same for everyone. Can anyone confirm/deny this?