Hello everyone, just setup my account I have a few questions and a few things to add. Been reading this thread for a few months now...

I would personally believe that 2t4+ 4t6 is the best way to go and I think powershifting hampers your DPS more then you would think it would improved it. Someone said it already that the 2t4 might proc as soon as you shift out losing the energy. My highest DPS that I have yet to see is 1650, I am using chest/shoulders as t4, helm, gloves, legs, bracers(12def, 5agi 7sta) Everything is enchanted/gemmed for DPS except the bracers. I have a 5agi 7sta on the gloves, helm, legs to get the 4str, not sure if it would be better to drop those 3 gems and put in spinels for a net gain of 15agi but at the loss of 12str.

This is old but would Primal Batskin set increase swim speed in aqua form 50% + 8 %? Cat form 30% + 8%? Cheetah 40% + 8%?

If you're shifting at less than 10 energy and at the proper time (i.e., 1 second into an energy tick) you will never "lose" energy even if you get a 2T4 proc. At 10 energy and a 2T4 proc you break even. Now if you're shifting above 10 energy it is possible to end up with a net energy loss if a 2T4 proc occurs but thats pretty mana inefficient anyways. Shifting properly when below 10 energy should result always result in at least a minor dps gain.

im sitting around 1300 dps (1400 with mangle bot) currently and with my gear i think i should be higher. so if people can share their rotations so i can try them out.

raid buffed im at 54% crit 5400 ap (6k when i pop trinkets) 2piece t4 and 2 piece t6, hit capped (group makeup is fury warrior + enhancement shammy 2 rogues and me)

currently doing mangle>shred>shred>rip shred til mangle runs out. i spec to powershift but i often forget to do so.

so basically if you can share your rotations for me to experiment with i would greatly value your imput

reason for my post is a 6/8 t6 druid told me im doing something wrong with my dps rotations if im only doing 1300-1400 dps on teron (but his wws reports show him only at 1200 dps)

also if anyone has a macro system set up, oh please share. someone told me i should add rake into my rotation but idunno

Mangle, shred to >= 4 points, wait for 65-70 energy (or 45-50 right before a tick), if rip isn't up then rip, if rip is up and your energy is close to going >100 then shred again. Once rip runs out, rip then mangle. I always mangle after I rip to ensure they're both up all the time. It's probably a very minor dps loss from the second mangle being reapplied before the very first one has expired, but I can live with that to keep rip/mangle up without difficulty.


That's the standard cycle. The powershifting macros discussed a few pages ago will help significantly increase your dps as well, but if you don't use those, my usual thoughts are: if my next attack is rip or mangle and i have less than 10 energy then shift, if my next attack is shred and i have less than 20 energy then shift. I usually try to limit myself to 1-2 shifts per cycle at most, and if I get a lucky crit streak and lots of fast combo points I kind of like to just sit and regen mana for a cycle if it looks like mana might be an issue.


If you really want to work harder, you can try to pull off the double buffed rips discussed a few pages back as well, but I personally haven't been able to reliably produce those so it usually ends up hurting my dps more than helping it.

I'm fairly certain a level 13 druid cannot wear 2t4/2t6 much less enter Black Temple to fight Teron Gorefiend. Please post as your real character if you want any specific information beyond the information on the first page, even if you're asking on behalf of someone else.

Also, reading the last 20 pages or so should answer a LOT of your questions (regarding powershifting, macros, etc).

Regarding powershifting/ 2t4/ etc, my understanding is that when you use a macro, it currently pushes the entire code stream to the server as one block line and is processed serverside. If that holds true, then you can't waste 2t4 procs using the powershifting macros posted, as the energy check is server side and wouldn't process if you were above your set threshold.

There isnt too much information on M'uru atm and was looking for information on tanking for Muru. So far from the previous posts in this thread etc i have come to understand that high avoidance and high threat is what to aim for and it quite possibly is the most effort compared to other fights.

So what gear makeup can should I expect to utilize assuming I have all the standard gear up to Muru, maybe discount the feral pieces off Felmyst and twins.

Out of curiosity, what are other BT-Farming druids generating as their average threat-per-second on boss fights, mainly Bloodboil and Illidan Flame tanking? I'm not really having a problem with threat, but would always like to generate more faster, as my Flame is almost always killed first, and I hate being a cap for DPS. I'm also interested in Brutallus numbers, if anyone has those.

I think my cycle is basically correct. Get Misdirection, Mangle, Lacerate x3, Mangle, Lacerate x2, Swipe, Mange, Swipe, and then Lacerate whenever I need to to keep the stack up, otherwise keep on Mangling on cooldown and Swiping. Use Maul whenever it's up, and occasionally throw in a Faerie Fire.

TPS varies a *ton* based on whether you gem for stam or for agi. I just recently switched from all 15sta's back to mostly 10agis... Average TPS was about 1000-1100 before, now it's like 1200-1300.

For my M'uru set I tossed on what I'd normally use for Bloodboil (high dodge). From there I swapped in slots for +hit and expertise, I have around 80-100hit, 80expertise, and our WWS showed about 70% avoidance over a night of M'uru attempts. If you are not tanking Entropius you can use lower defense/resilience since the blood elves are only level 71, 2.2% to be at cap. I also don't worry about armor as much as avoidance/hit/expertise, around 30-32k armor I believe.

Hit items:
[Pepe's Shroud of Pacification] 25
[Band of the Abyssal Lord] 21
[Thunderheart Leggings] 27
[Belt of Deep Shadow] 18 (wtb T6 belt, I only used this one night for testing and seemed fine but most will probably just stick to Natural Power if no T6)
Along with a couple Pyrestones agi/hit for socket bonus.

Expertise:
[Thunderheart Treads] 20
[Collar of the Pit Lord] 29
[Shard of Contempt] 44


Note: I have on a max avoidance set in Armory, NOT a normal tanking set obviously so that isn't much help to look at right now.

Edit: For M'uru it also depends on what is expected of you and the strat used by your guild. If they expect you to get all 3 adds for your side I would go for a setup like I have listed. If you're sheeping a berserker or even two sheeps every wave then you can get by with your normal gear fine, without trying to tweak.

Apologize if this was mentioned elsewhere but I am wondering how it would be the best way to gem up the Leggings of the Immortal Beast? 2 red sockets 1 blue and 4+agi socket bonus

I was personally thinking 5agi 7sta, 5agi 7sta, and 15 sta, to get the socket bonus, which would be 14agi 29 sta or should i do 3x 15sta for 45sta?

In any case it would be an upgrade over the t6 even without gems, I can find hit elsewhere maybe use pepe's over placification if i need to.

My only tanking roles at this point are, kalecgos(3rd tank on the rotation), and Brutallis(2nd tank, we use 2). I will be dpsing for Felmyst and picking up 1-2 or loose adds if need be. Not sure what lies ahead.

On the previous subject I am proud to say that I am able to do 1650+DPS on gorefiend, with 2 haste potions, 1 heroism, and I think not sure which group I was in last time but either a full drum of battle rotation or 2 other people in my group with drums.
Wow Web Stats

I just checked I only got the drums of battle 5x. My two trinkets are DST/Shard, I only shifted twice to pop a haste potion at 0 energy.

I will be going 10agi x2 with one 15sta to get the socket bonus. Not a fan of the 1 lost stamina from [Shifting Shadowsong Amethyst]. But like you said the stats on these legs alone are great already, the gems are gravy.

To add to what Astrylian said, threat also largely depends on what group you can get into. These days we occassionally run a second Enhancement Shaman on farm raids to gear him up, and he goes in the tank group. Unleashed Rage is huge for threat. But if you're in there with just a Resto Shaman (SoE/WF) and a Prot Warrior doing Commanding Shout (or being lazy with Shouts), well that's not as much fun.

BM Hunter groups are generally good for threat as well, 2 x FI and Resto Shaman's SoE/GoA is not a terrible place to be.

The two encounters you mentioned specifically have some special conditions. While Flame tanking, you'll be in FR gear, so threat stats are likely to be gimped. Personally, I offset that by getting the 2T6 bonus (Shoulders/Bracers) and using a DPS gemmed/enchanted S3 helm (lots of Hit Rating), so play around with what you can achieve threat wise while remaining crit immune and FR capped. Bloodboil is mostly fine when you've got a nice Rage income from the ticking debuffs, but right at the start (if you're not the first tank) you can get screwed by crap Rage generation from too many glancings, or not enough hits/crits, and then you're playing catchup. You can try eating a Cleave or two to help though.

As far as Brutallus goes, I'm the first tank and usually in a 2 x BM Hunter, 1 Survival, Resto Shaman (SoE/GoA) group. I don't pay attention to the rolling TPS value on Omen, since it fluctuates a lot, but I note down how much total threat I had when the other tank taunts after 3 slashes. With 3 Misdirects, Bloodlust after ~10 seconds and Drums, my best was ~78k threat, so about 2600 TPS (lots of crits in this as well, not many miss/dodge/parry). Mostly though, I average around 52-58k, 3 x Misdirects, Drums, but no Bloodlust, which is a much more reasonable ~1833 TPS.

edit: It obviously peters off after the first 30 second segment, but that's the most crucial bit, to give DPS enough of a lead to start letting loose. I'll note down total threat on our next kill to find average TPS, but I don't know if that'll be as relevant since we spend half the time DPSing in Cat form.

edit2: It'd be nice if someone could adapt coolyo's TPS calculator for Druids:
[Warrior] Sustained TPS / WWSed
Coolyo[dot]org

Hello,

This was briefly touched on up above but I'm interested in getting a more definitive answer. I understand that alot of the spreadsheets/rawr/etc say that agility is always better but what is the general opinion when it comes to being hit-capped while DPS'ing? Is it more important to try and hit the cap to minimize misses or just go for best in slot and end up with w/e you have? I'm interested because my best in slot gear leaves me @ about 6.6% to hit w/ 16 expertise rating and I'm unsure whether to change around gems/gear just to hit 142 rating.

I would just like to hear what other ferals are doing in the endgame concerning hit and DPS.

In terms of M'uru... having a high dodge set is very useful, Sunwell Radiance does not effect these mobs and they are lower level so its a lot easier to gain that dodge.

Here's a WWS of our kill
Shadowsword Fury Mage - WWS
Shadowsword Berserker - WWS

Dmg done by both Shadowfury Mage and Shadowfury Beserker. As you can see I've take a little more dmg than Natural but its very slight. 74% mitigation ^_^

I think WowWebStats Tps Calculator works. Correct me if i am wrong.

I've started using Feralkit a while ago and wondered if it could be used to simplyfy tanking.
Reading through this thread it was already stated that canceling an aura is an exception of what can be done with a conditional macro type of thing (what about shifting back in though? (Ah that's dine with the [form] tag)) but I was hoping this might be an exception:
What I was hoping to see is a mangle(bear) macro, that will queue a maul whenever I've got over a certain amount of rage. (either through feralkit, or a script)

I guess this is probably not possible, but that's what I thought about powershift macro's that check energy aswell.

Mostly boils down to personal preference. You won't get a perfect DPS cycle anyway unless you hit the cap for both Expertise and Hit rating, and Agility adds more 'value' than hit rating.
That said, I prefer being as close to the cap as possible (unless I'd have to drop to a much worse piece of gear, for example - not using Brooch of Deftness when I could use a real DPS necklace) as it makes my job that much easier. Calling out Deadens and keeping up a halfway decent DPS cycle really is a lot easier when you don't miss every other shred and/or mangle.

It's not possible. But then instead of feral tanking being all about spamming 2 buttons, it would be about spamming 1 button. Honestly it doesn't need to get any easier.

Just use something like the following, and maul manually:

#showtooltip Mangle (Bear)()
/cancelaura blessing of salvation
/cancelaura greater blessing of salvation
/startattack
/castSequence reset=6 Mangle (Bear)(), Lacerate(), Lacerate(), Lacerate()

Put this macro right beside Maul on your action bar. Rage light = mash macro only, Rage heavy = mash macro and maul.

Actually, (and I can't take credit for this, that belongs to Astrylian) I use the following macros.

And Bongos Action Button 110 is the following macro:

For AOE tanking I just swap in a similar macro where Swipe replaces Lacerate.

So for limited rage tanking, I spam the second, and for unlimited rage tanking (or when I'm >60 rage) I spam/hit the Maul macro (which clicks the other one for me)

On that note, quite a few people have problems with leaking adds pasting healers. This is what I do:

if you're unlucky enough to be door-side, and are expected to pick up all 3 adds, you'll basically want a white hit on the first Berserker through the door, and use Swipe on him the moment the second Berserker runs through the door (Compensating for latency, etc). Spam swipe a few more times, then mangle. If done correctly, you should be able to land two swipes on the second Berserker before he "activates" and picks a target based on its threat table. The Fury Mage will inevitably get picked up as well, and his first fireball cast's target is irrelevant as someone will interrupt it before it gets off (I'd like to hope so... since there's 4 dps waiting around for a threat headstart)

The only time this varies is if the Fury Mage comes through first. If the two Berserkers are bunched behind him, white hit Fury Mage, then swipe when they come through. If they're in a string of 3 with the Fury Mage in front, you'll probably want to set the Mage as focus, white hit the first Berserker and swipe the next while taunting on focus.

Over the 200+ learning attempts we had, I had a total parse of 4.6% missed attacks - I'd say anything below 5% and you're probably safe since it takes two swipes missing in a row for a Berserker to run off and gib someone. (And even then you can blow Challenging Roar. If it happens twice in an attempt and Roar is on cooldown you're probably not meant to kill M'uru that particular pull >_>)

For comparison's sake, since I'm not too sure what the parry/dodge rates are on lv71 mobs, I was running 5.14% hit and 3% expertise, or 11.14% avoidance reduction.


Edit: Can't stress stacking Agility enough. Every single point of Agility you can get, get it. Anything above 18-19k HP is sufficient even for tanking all 3 adds. Commendation is also irreplacable due to how the numbers work out.

This is all really good advice. One thing to note is that it is often a good idea to wait a second after the second zerk comes in the door to mash swipe. If you blow a global before the zerk is hittable, that may result in a healer gib. Also, sometimes the adds to come in staggered, so you can get a mangle off on one zerk before the other is even in the door, then begin to swipe. Another thing to note is that tab targetting is your friend, as you can target the mobs before they enter the room via tab.