I used to use this macro, but found it a bit too limiting, since you cant change out the tabard during combat. I even went to far as to have outfitter equip my tabard when i mouse over a boss mob. Unfortunately, it was a pain in the ass for when i was not the MT, so I ended up getting rid of it.
This is all really good advice. One thing to note is that it is often a good idea to wait a second after the second zerk comes in the door to mash swipe. If you blow a global before the zerk is hittable, that may result in a healer gib. Also, sometimes the adds to come in staggered, so you can get a mangle off on one zerk before the other is even in the door, then begin to swipe. Another thing to note is that tab targetting is your friend, as you can target the mobs before they enter the room via tab.
While clearly, the boss is beatable, I would love to have the door-side work differently. It's bad enough having that Force Field inside the door (the door is quite thick, if the field were moved further back door tanks could land an extra attack in), but the mobs don't even show up at the same time because of the trees in the middle of the path leading to M'uru. I also have problems with the Berserkers readjusting themselves to be outside the force field (and thus unattackable). Wishful thinking, but it would probably eliminate at least 1/4 of the wipes we're currently experiencing if the mobs showed up at the same time, I could actually attack them before they reached the pause spot, and they didn't randomly reposition themselves outside, like it is on the far-side. The difference in ability to control the spawns between both sides is absurd
Thus far, the only thing I've managed to do to compensate for the force field is backing up a few steps after swipeing. The problem with this is repositioning costs melee DPS (we use double melee on the doors most of the time) and sometimes they reposition behind me inevitably leading to my death since I cannot dodge mobs behind me and my hp/armor are lower than I'd like to get my dodge (still above 19k life, but below armor cap by quite a bit) I also have the issue of DPS dying without generating any threat on the mob that killed them (ex. rogue standing with nothing targeted, but within melee range of a Berserker that just ran into the room that I haven't hit yet)
The next best thing I can think of doing is having a couple shamans/resto druid do warstomp rotations on the adds, but at least in the case of Shaman this is going to be a decent interrupt in their healing, and of course this cannot be pulled off by Alliance. We use the stomp rotation on far side where there's 2 Tauren Shaman (1 resto 1 enh) as well as a Holy Paladin, so the healing interruption isn't potentially fatal and Earthbind will always be down (none of our 2nd Enh Shaman, Hunters, and DPS warriors are Tauren)
Its not trivial, but definetly doable more stable than you describe.
Stand on max melee range to the spot where they stand still and they won't move into the door then. The melees getting gibbed can be solved by them standing 3y further left or right when the mobs run in and a dps warrior can even stand on range, intercepting the fury mage when he is in. After you got solid aggro on the zerkers and they are debuffed you can move them a bit more freely.
You can also have them a bit on the side, you in front of the door, leading to the melees standing behind the mobs on the side of the door already. Then you never have the proximity aggro problem even if dps is a second late.
Remember that melee have a lot of responsibilities here.
- DPS (obviously).
- Not pulling aggro - they have to work with you and see what kind of DPS order/multi target order works.
- Not standing in melee range of the door.
- Focus Fury Mage, kick/earthshock (Assuming you're killing it last to abuse Spellfury).
- Keep debuffs up. TC/Demo will reduce physical damage by >20% total over just Demo Roar.
- Know when to go "defensive" - when tank spikes, blow Kidney Shot, etc, buy time. Along with Bash and Commendation proccing, tanks shouldn't ever die.
DPS themselves have quite a tall order, so the burden isn't all solely on the tank here. And there -is- so much to keep track of that it can take quite a while to get used to.
We basically single target down the first Berserker (I mark it with a raid icon) then Blade Flurry/Cleave/WW the other two. I get to 25k threat on the main target then switch off. If anyone pulls over 25k threat (really impossible actually - should be ~18k threat each when the mob dies) that's their own fault.
What stats are you trying to get by dropping below the armor cap? That's probably the second most important thing to have still, after crit immunity.
Remember that melee have a lot of responsibilities here.
What stats are you trying to get by dropping below the armor cap? That's probably the second most important thing to have still, after crit immunity.
I have approx. 83-84% avoidance on the adds, armor is not everything. Everytime i die, its the mages fireballs that kills me (1 out of 20 tries, and then its mostly not my fault). I wouldn`t go under 28-30k armor, but i can`t see a reason to wear the Karazhan ring when i don`t need the defense rating. Badge isn`t really worth it, if you can wear shadowmoon/commendation or moroes.
Well, the general idea is that the only thing that can conceivably kill is either two 8k fireballs (Mage screwed up) or an 8k fireball followed by a bunch of hits. That latter one is the only real thing which should be accounted for. Avoidance is a huge part of that, but capping armor if you can is probably the best safety-net method. 2.6k MH's vs 3k is massive when you're left with 10k HP after a fireball.
I'm sitting at 32k without Kara ring or Badge of Tenacity. 75-ish% avoidance normally, and 83% when Commendation procs. I guess if you could push your avoidance up to 86% consistently, armor doesn't become as much of an issue.
Well, the general idea is that the only thing that can conceivably kill is either two 8k fireballs (Mage screwed up) or an 8k fireball followed by a bunch of hits. That latter one is the only real thing which should be accounted for. Avoidance is a huge part of that, but capping armor if you can is probably the best safety-net method. 2.6k MH's vs 3k is massive when you're left with 10k HP after a fireball.
I'm sitting at 32k without Kara ring or Badge of Tenacity. 75-ish% avoidance normally, and 83% when Commendation procs. I guess if you could push your avoidance up to 86% consistently, armor doesn't become as much of an issue.
Yes after 80% avoidance, more avoidance is better than more armor. My goal is to become completly hit immun with commendation and idol active. I only need the trouser from felmyst for that.
We do the mage first on my side so everytime the adds run in, i get a fireball and 1-2 melee hits which get me below 30% and activate commendation. After the mage is dead the damage on me is very little. Last time we did Muru, a shaman spamming chain heal on me was enough to keep me alive. If i am hitimmun on the above setup i hope a single shaman spamming chainheal is enough to keep me and the group alive, so that we only need 5 healers.
Threat may become a little bit of an issue, although I guess if there's enough Agi to go hit-immune, you're going to be critting a lot anyway :P
At the current level i am not rage starved except at the last mob, but threat is currently a non issue. When the mage goes down i have build 15-20k aggro on both beserkers. Leaving Maul out of the rotation may lead to lower aggro but it don`t think it is really an issue.
Most wipes are because something went wrong on the side where the warrior is tanking which is a little frustrating sometimes.
I understand that this is a board to theorycraft, but my death is almost never the cause of our wipes, and I sit at about 70% avoidance, 34k ac, and 20k hp. Moreover, threat on the mobs is virtually a non-issue and second nature at this point. While it is not a trivial thing to do, it's pretty formulaic picking up the adds. It is very important that your dps stand 3y back, as was mentioned, and one swipe will get the mobs on you long enough to generate hate through heal aggro. Assuming you use the "kill the mage first" strat, my primary objective is threat on zerks, with an occasional taunt on the mage. Between our shaman shocking, rogue kicking and ks'ing, war pummelling, the mage does next to nothing in terms of big damage; it's enough for a shaman to chain off of whoever nabbed aggro and keep him up. Meanwhile, the rogues and war can go crazy with AE pretty early and we usually clear our door with a good 5-10s to spare.
I pretty much use my normal gear just switch in Stanchion of Primal Instinct, Badge Hit/Expertise neck, Supremus Ring, and a 3 10 agi gemmed chest. I do constantly pop ironshields to get the armor cap but this way allows me to gain a ton more agi.
Quick question guys. Did they change the mechanics of Adamantite weightstones to where druids are effected by the +12 dmg? Toskk's spread sheet and rawr 14.1 both have it listed as the better weapon enchant.
Can one of those of you who are tanking Mu'ru post what your avoidance gear is? I'm curious to see how you got to 34k armor and 75% avoidance.
Please, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the other tanks. I am still debating if I should drop my hp/armor cap for more threat/hit/expertise or stick with the high amount of stam/armor and 52 HR in tanking gear. It's rather frustrating when you miss mangle almost 2-3 times in a row while main tanking a boss plus taunt resists. For example, I would use [Nether Shadow Tunic], [Nyn'jah's Tabi Boots], [Shard of Contempt] and more HR items like that instead of T6 chest, Den Mother boots, and other high avoidance/armor items.
I'm not talking about any specific fights, just in general. Do you think that the extra avoidance and threat would make up for having your potion on perma-cooldown?
I'm not talking about any specific fights, just in general. Do you think that the extra avoidance and threat would make up for having your potion on perma-cooldown?
Absolutely. If you've got access to the Ironshields, there's no reason not to.
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It's basically just what my armory is now with a couple different pieces subbed in. Primarily, it is what I am currently wearing.
The reason I asked this is because of exactly what happened - armory has you in resto gear right now for pvp.
What do you guys think about using [Ironshield Potion]
I tihnk it's good situationally but not in general; the reason being that sometimes popping a health pot is going to help you more (with more spelldamage, for instance), and sometimes you want to make sure you're at the armor cap more. Also, using ironshield pots is a bit expensive to have to use over and over again; I'd probably rather have them only for progression content and not farm. But most of the time you'd care, you'd want to. Brutallus is a good example where ironshields are ideal; a pot won't help you much at all, but having more damage and avoidance really will.
The primary advantage of being at the armor cap is that it is the only means we have available to reduce the damage from crushing blows. In a related manner, it also reduces the total damage from a spike of multiple hits in a row. However when specifically reducing total damage taken or tanking mobs that don't crush and don't hit hard enough to kill quickly, it is not necessarily a crucial factor.
In a completely unrelated issue... has anyone ever noticed double Fearie Fire applied to a mob? It's habit for me to spam FF in cat whenever I have a free GCD waiting for an energy tick. Only recently we've started bringing a moonkin to raids. Normally I can't use mine if his is applied or his overwrites mine. Last night I noticed 2 debuffs up at the same time on one of the robots in SW though. We tried to reproduce it and were not able. Do we somehow have to be casting it at the exact same time?
Yeah, cast it at the same time. Same thing works for Mangle Cat/Bear. (Or even Mangle and Mangle Cat, from yourself, if you lag for over 1 sec). I don't believe they actually stack though. (I know the mangles don't, don't think the FFs do either)
In a completely unrelated issue... has anyone ever noticed double Fearie Fire applied to a mob? It's habit for me to spam FF in cat whenever I have a free GCD waiting for an energy tick. Only recently we've started bringing a moonkin to raids. Normally I can't use mine if his is applied or his overwrites mine. Last night I noticed 2 debuffs up at the same time on one of the robots in SW though. We tried to reproduce it and were not able. Do we somehow have to be casting it at the exact same time?
Noticed the same thing last night --- hovered over and noticed his was only reducing armor by 150, which is rank 1. He opened his spellbook and max rank overwrote mine right away. Not sure if some bar mod bugged out or what.
Can one of those of you who are tanking Mu'ru post what your avoidance gear is? I'm curious to see how you got to 34k armor and 75% avoidance.
(Don't mind the obvious copypasta)
T6 Helm - 10agi/12agi(Meta) KoT enchant
Demontooth Shoulderpads - 10agi/5agi+7sta Aldor exalted enchant (Sunwell set off twins)
Collar of the Pit Lord - (Brut neck)
Slikk's Cloak of Placation - 12agi enchant (Badge gear)
T6 chest - 5agi+7sta/5agi+5hit/5agi+5hit 6stats enchant
T6 bracers - 10agi 12def enchant
T6 gloves - 10agi 15agi enchant
T6 belt - 10agi
T6 pants - 10agi 40sta/12agi enchant
T6 boots - 10agi Boar's Speed (Might change this to Cat's. No reason not to actually)
Ring of the Stalwart Protector - (Badge gear)
Band of the Abyssal Lord - (Supremus)
Shadowmoon Insignia - (Gurtogg)
Commendation of Kael'thas - (H-MGT)
Wildfury Greatstaff 35agi enchant - (SSC)
Idol of Terror - (Badge gear)
Relevant buffs:
Major Agility
Major Fort
20agi Food
MotW
Fort
Kings
GoA
Stats:
20.1k HP
62% dodge, 7% miss without procs (+5% idol of terror, +8% commendation)
Almost-capped armor vs 71 (74.6% redux)
5.14% hit, 3% expertise
2.4% crit reduction (capped vs 71)
In hindsight I could also swap to Twins staff and pop Ironshields. M'uru already hurt my bag of gold enough, though. Guess I'm not dedicated.
The primary advantage of being at the armor cap is that it is the only means we have available to reduce the damage from crushing blows. In a related manner, it also reduces the total damage from a spike of multiple hits in a row. However when specifically reducing total damage taken or tanking mobs that don't crush and don't hit hard enough to kill quickly, it is not necessarily a crucial factor.
Well, while Shadowsong Berserkers don't hit hard, they hit often enough to kill you quickly, I speak of situation when they both use their Flurry ability and you have your trinket/stun on cooldown. For me it's the only reason to save potions cooldown free.
Also with proper cooldown timing (Bash and Moroes on double Flurry) and good avoidance gear you can take lower damage than equally geared protection warrior. At least when using no-polymorph & mage 1st strategy.
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Last edited by Immortal : 06/12/08 at 6:58 PM.
Reason: typos
Seeing a couple of the recent posts, thoguht Id post how I do my mauls...
Basically I just use the action bar page as a variable, since it can be a conditional to the macro, and isnt blocked from changing in combat... this of course means that you can only really use it with an action bar mod(or I guess make duplicates of the action bars you use)
The 'G' macro is a toggle between the action bars, the only line you actually need is the second, I thought Id leave the others for completeness though, each of the other macros is set that whenever the action bar page is 2 or 4, it will toggle the maul ability on*and wont cancel it*. The purpose of 3 and 4 is simply that you can add another variable in, not reflected in above, but something like the following...
06/11/08, 1:53 AM
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