Has anyone used Gift of Arthas as a M'uru add tank with a heavy melee set up on their side? I wasn't tanking pre-TBC (where I assume they were more popular) so I don't know if some mobs/bosses tend to be immune to the debuff. I usually use Elixir of Major Fortitude (along with agility) but my server seems to have come upon a shortage of Ragveil, which also cuts off my other alternative guardian elixir, Earthen Elixir.

I've only been looking in to the elixir since I have not been able to pick up any Ragveil <30g over the past 4 days, but it doesn't sound half bad. Stacks up to 20 since 2.4 (supposedly, though perhaps the poster is mistaking the elixirs stacking instead of the debuff) with a 30% proc chance.

I'm sure they meant the elixir stacking to 20 since I know it previously did not. I cannot see the debuff ever stacking. [Gift of Arthas] does increase raid damage, but doesn't really have any defensive value like the other guardian elixirs do. Of course, it will increase your TPS as well though. I remember hearing pre-BC that debuff procs like this and Thunderfury are worth a decent amount of bonus threat when they go off, though I am not sure of any numbers. I used them back in Kara some and know they worked on bosses there at least.

Switching your gear around and using [Elixir of Ironskin] is also a great alternative and only uses 1 Ragveil each instead. Many Pre-BC herbs actually end up being more expensive than new ones on my server.

This shows ~1780 tps excluding the fire bloom damage.
I think it is really interesting to use cat gear and get useful group buffs and have such high average mangles/ mauls yet not swipe once.

I have a question I was hoping someone could answer or direct me to the post were it was talked about. Ive rumage through about 70 pages from page 50 and I haven't found anything reguarding this. Im looking for information on the 2t4/4t6. With sunwell allowing Thunderheart to go to 8 pieces, I was wondering what the ideal pieces of t4 could be used in place of t6.

I think the optimal set was something like:

T4: Head + Gloves
T6: Bracers, Belt, Boots, Shoulders

with the Sunwell leather dps chest and legs

And thats the optimal dps setup? Would that also be the optimal tanking setup?

Greetings everybody

I need some advises concerning Kalecgos fight. We’re farming illidan since 2 months now, and go to sunwell the rest of the week (usually 3 days) to kill this boss. We progressed a lot, we bring him to 5% last night, but I’m still not satisfied of my performances in this encounter. I’m wearing full t6 (15 stamina gemmed, except the chest with some hit and agi gems), hit/expertise neck, insignia cloak, pvp bracers, vashj belt (for the expertise), kara/maghteridon rings, badge of tenacity and commendation of kael’thas, pillar of ferocity and idol of terror. I use flask of fortification or elixir of major fortitude/agility, and 20 stamina food.

I have 21,5k health, armor capped against raid boss, 45% dodge, 69 hit rating and 11 expertise.

1) A lot of my taunts are resisted by both kalecgos and sathrovarr, that is very disturbing and led to a wipe or two when for example, I used my aoe taunt after a resisted taunt, then taunt again but it was resisted and kalec ran to the other tank.

2) I feel very fragile, especially of course against sathrovarr, after a corrupting strike. My health bar can go down very quickly.

What gear I must use ? More stamina ? More Avoidance ? Is it good to gear for hit in this fight to avoid taunts resists ? I can change some pieces (hyjal trashs tanking cloak, insignia belt, and a hit/defense neck) to reach 109 hit rating, and have the same stamina and dodge than in my previous gear, but loose 11 expertise, and see a decrease in my tps. And then, even if my taunts resists less, there are still many of them, and It’s more difficult with this huge loss of expertise to keep the aggro of sathrovarr against kind kalecgos who have a solid aggro.

For the consumables, is flask of chromatic wonder better than fortification ? I know also that some of you uses free action potion to avoid the stun effect of the corrupting string, maybe I’ll start to use it but my healers succeed in healing me trough it so it’s not the real problem, but more the amount of damage that i take in the phantom world and even against kalecgos in the real world, even if i try to use badge each time i taunt a boss, use frenzied regeneration, etc.

I made a full research in this topic concerning this fight, I’ve read some interesting comments but not very complete about this fight so I made this post, I think it can help some new beginners in sunwell who starts kalecgos too.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions

For Kalecgos when you're down below you should only taunt AFTER you see Kalec stagger from getting hit by corrupting strike. Also you can pop a Free Action Potion to prevent the stun from keeping you from dodging. Taunts get resisted a lot in this fight but you just have to deal with it. Because of Sunwell Radiance - Spell - World of Warcraft You need to be aware of the lowered dodge in general

Hi. I'm a little confused about what to go for once S4 rolls around in about a week.

Unfortunately I can't use RAWR as of yet on my iMac, Mono just isn't working for me. I'm up to 4t4 and 2t5 available for tanking, looking at using 4t4 for the foreseeable future, since it gets me very close to the armour cap at 34212 unbuffed. My Armoury should show you:
- Lack of Expertise ...4 total ([Band of Determination] available)
- Lack of Dodge ...36%
- The gems in my chest are all wrong, originally meant to be for dps and a meta gem
- Uncrittable but only at great cost ...using one of Hvy Clefthoof with Resilience gems to get there
- no PVP gear whatsoever (just picked up the S2 pants, but that would break my 4t4)
- Lack of HP ...16k selfbuffed
- Decent to good trinkets, rings and badge gear.

Basically the entire mess stems from me thinking that t5 would be a great pve upgrade over t4, and thinking there'd be no need for me to go crazy on arena and BGs while I was catching up to my t5 guild, we're just barely about to knock off Kael'Thas, and are 3 deep in BT, with 2 down in MH.

So now I'm sitting on about 1k arena pts and 13k honor, and about 15 BoJ. I'll be able to hold over 1500 rating for the week coming, in 2v2 at least, and I can do BGs every day, even though I really don't enjoy it (ground to Exalted on my first of five feral druids, back in the day when BGs were new... don't really like BGs anymore). My next badge purchases for tanking will be [Ring of the Stalwart Protector] and [Slikk's Cloak of Placation], but that's not really relevant I'd think.

No, I am not asking you to analyze my Armoury, I'm merely stating stuff about it since all the gear's not there and I figured people would check it anyway and then give me ill-informed advice.

What I need is some pointers on what would be good priorities once S4 rolls around.

I'm thinking getting something to go with the S2 pvp pants would be great for the +35 Resil set bonus to stay uncrittable (this has been a major headache for a while, with no pvp gear), but that would break 4t4...? (I'm missing the t4 pants off of Gruul, just unlucky with dkp/drops.)

So keep the 4t4 and focus on getting Resilience in my waist/wrist/feet/back? Purchase said items purely with Honor until I can figure out when to break 4t4?

Regem for Stamina purely? We already have a good druid tank that's focusing on avoidance.
Forget about 4t4 and just make sure to get two pieces of arena something something's Dragonhide something for the uncrittability that lets me switch around other stuff as I see fit?

Notable pieces missing from Armoury:
[Frayed Tether of the Drowned]
[Embrace of Everlasting Prowess]
[Nordrassil Handgrips]
[Merciless Gladiator's Dragonhide Legguards]
[Cloak of Blade Turning]
[Zierhut's Lost Treads]

My role is generally OT next to a pally tank, druid tank and prot warrior, but my dps gear is more or less fine, I'd like to think it's not as good as that of the pure classes that I can occasionally achieve dps parity with, but in either case it's not that big of a deal to me, I seem to hold my own just fine there.

In other news I actually very much enjoy pvp, just not the BG and arena variety. Having stuff to make the 10-20 games/week less of a royal pain would be nice, too. No, I'm not respeccing and re-gearing for Resto arena. No way, in hell. And yes, I already tried to get an item restore on the 2t5 (gloves, pants) so I could buy the S2 instead, and it was too long ago, they said - so I had to burn dkp to get a second t5 leg token...

Big thanks to those like Astrylian who have responded to my noob questions in the past. Much obliged.

Slightly less if you equip [Terestian's Stranglestaff] before you taunt and equip your normal weapon right after.

If you can make use of some resilience for crit-immunity with your current gear possibilities, I recommend trying [Medallion of the Alliance] over [Commendation of Kael'thas] in that particular fight (because stunned, the procc from Kael'thas' won't benefit you at all). You can get more stamina and mitigation in trade perhaps with the [Ring of the Stalwart Protector].

Add the Medallion on the first line of your hopefully GCD-safe Pot/HS/NightmareSeed-macro, using it ONLY when CD is ready (or you'll instantly get gibbed in human form) if you got hit by the demon's Corrupting Strike.

As mentioned before, wait before taunting till the human Kalecgos got hit by Corrupting Strike so you won't have to eat it right away. Don't forget having as many debuffs as currently possible on him (yes your off-warrior has to thunderclap too) and try to get a bit more stamina for better surviving the worst case in this fight: Corrupting Strike with Insignia on CD and no [Free Action Potion] thrown before. Designated tank healers also have to precast greater heals and/or have an instant-cast ready for that case or you will drop like a fly if it happens.

Concerning taunt-issues I can't really suggest to you, since I also experienced problems sometimes with taking over the dragon after returning from shadow realm. I even had the case of successful taunts and after the duration of the taunt debuff, he turned around for the former tanking def-warrior who was looking for the next portal, although I didn't miss any styles after taunting and generally having no threat issues at all. Don't seem to be related to the Wild Magic debuffs, since I got none at that time and the def-warrior had neither of hit- nor threat-influencing ones. So other than that I really lacked an explanation for it.

Not that it happened that often, but I experienced that strange behaviour just a few single times over our first sunwell weeks and had no idea why it happened.. anyone else got that? Haven't been to Kalecgos for a while now since I wanted our other tanks have a chance to get new gear

When I was in your situation a while ago in Season 2, I always OTd with getting crit-immune by the +35 resilience bonus provided by chest and shoulder (since I were really unlucky with drops in that slots). I don't think the armor-cap and hence the 4t4 bonus is really significant as OT in most cases, so you can get away with just about 30k armor too since the PvP-items generally have a lot of agility and stamina on them. The combination of which PvP-gear to choose stays with you, mine changed with every single upgrade I got. Good to have a bit of backup gear, but I can totally understand your pain with feral PvP.

Ah as you mentioned it, why did you want to get s2 instead of your t5 in the first case? The 2t5 bonus is amazing when you do PvP, especially in arena when you try to survive your 10 games a week :roll
And feral-specced in arena without feral s3 gear, I found it more valuable to use more dps-gear from PvE instead of older s1- and s2-items since it provides more of the much needed damage instead of resilience. But I think that's going a bit off-topic here though it's very interesting stuff to discuss.


edit: typos..

Don't tell people to use arcane or shadow resist on Kalecgos. You need all the survivability and mitigation you can get on that fight, and some arcane resist to hope to resist a tick of the aoe is ridiculous.
Just put a warrior to stay up longest if you're worried about it.

Don't type things like dun or yr. Do fill in a working armory profile.

As I explained, these are my opinions, you have the right to disagree but spare me the talk-down pls.

Notice I did not say that one should be in full Mother shadow resist. One pc along with shadow prot buff is sufficient to resist a decent amt of shadow damage from curse and shadowbolt volley incoming.

And arcane resist if you are the first tank will help, you are gng to be up there the longest, resisting 2-3 stacks of the debuff helps. And I know a warrior is the best for that position, I am just saying 'IF'

I have corrected my armory profile. I am in trash tanking set, just in case someone feels the need to comment about that.

What about [Gloves of Immortal Dusk]? They the best phyical dps gloves in the game. I'd love to get them if possible but I'll probably stick to using T6 gloves. Also, [Shadowed Gauntlets of Paroxysm] seem amazing.

Best for rogue != best for druid.


Assuming belts/boots/bracers in dps set, you have 5C2 * 3C1 = 30 different permutations of 5 piece dps gear. Personally I'm just going to take what I can get as far as offset goes because the drop system in sunwell sucks. The dps difference between optimal sets and non-optimal sets is very minimal.

Helm/Shoulders/Gloves are the slots you can generally afford to swap in for T4 or T6 pieces. The chest and legs are just so good from sunwell its extremely hard to swap these in. The helm is also very good but its from Kiljaeden and by that time you should probably be getting rid of the T4 pieces anyways.

Kind of a silly thing, but I found it helps me a lot if we put raid markers over the tank healers heads on Kalecgos, that way I can see if there is one down there before I taunt.

I do not use 2pc T4, actually I stopped using it a while back when I got 4pc T6 before Sunwell was out. I'll grab with what ever comes around for dps upgrade but I am not too concerned about my dps gear because I don't get invited to come and dps on a boss, tanking is pretty much my primary job almost every raid night.


Also, for the person that needed help with Kalecgos.
- Commucation is the key with your raid (tanks/healers)
- Call out before you taunt and make sure you have your healers down there or you will get gibbed instantly.
- Hit helps a lot, one of the tanks had two taunt resist last night and it screwed up the portal rotation because there was no tank down at the bottom.
- Expertise also helps, threat can be an issue and it hurts missing two mangle openers at start.
- Before you taunt the demon, call it out 'Tauting in 3' and use FAP > Nightmare Seed (Sp?) > Barskin > Growl
- Keep an eye for Corrupting Strike, you usually wana taunt after he does Corrupting Strike on the previous tank or the NPC and taunt right away.

It helps a lot but it also depends on how solid your healers are, usually I don't have to use this macro.

This TPS value is of Omen and could ofc be wrong, but a rogue doing 3116 dps without using Vanish and with 1780 tps isnt right either ?

I could be wrong if i dont put Swipe into the cycle but this always worked perfectly fine on single targets.

If you take in account salvation and rogue's passive 29% threat reduction he's doing 1549 tps with this dps, so it's all ok with him not using vanish.

Rogues have a 0.71 passive threat multiplier, add Salvation and you have 0.71 * 0.7 * 3116 = 1549 TPS.

I don't think Omen is wrong so much as it displays a running average that tends to show memorable spikes. Has anyone compared output from the Sustained TPS Addon to the values these threat calculators give?

Well it makes sense with that TPS i agree, but no havent checked with other addons.

Could also be that the current version of Omen i used at that time was a bit off.

EDIT: gona try the SustainedTps addon and see what i get.