The adamantite weightstone problem was that staves weren't considered as a blunt weapon, but it was patched some time ago already (2.1?) - anyway, it definitely works now, I used it no later than yesterday. The great thing is that since the buff is attached to the weapon, it stays after death, so it's 30 minutes of effective buff (whereas elixirs can be, say, 3 seconds of effective buff )
Does weightstone theorycraft out to be a better weapon buff than sharpstone?
I was not commenting on the relative qualities of elemental sharpstone vs adamantite weightstone for druids, simply on the fact that yes, adamantite weightstones can be applied to staves, and that they work in druid forms. I'd rather use elemental sharpstone if I could, but adamantite weightstone has a lot going for it right now, including super easy to get recipe, outland mats (and the fact that they are easy to get helps), and the simple fact that I have a ton of them laying in the bank thanks to a friend levelling blacksmithing. The reasoning being that 0.63% crit is better than nothing (and yes the weapon damage is not applied in forms as expected, only the crit rating part).
Is anyone at all concerned with the new changes to devastate?
The testing on the PTR looks like 500 threat + weapon damage for a 5 stack. At a spammable move for 9 rage we can compare that to lacerate which gives ~300 threat, including the damage. That's a pretty hefty deficit to make up solely from autoattack and mangle. Warriors also tank with a faster weapon than the slow 2.5 speed bear attack which equates to more HS spam and quite a bit of threat.
Some basic napkin math in an infinite rage situation looks like warrior and druid threat will be pretty close if all the new warrior changes go through.
so from that i'm assuming that with 1.0 sec Attack Speed Proc chance is 1/40th "on hit"
i.e 1.5 procs every 60 seconds from just white, so proce chance on hit 1/40th?
to add specials into it would then assume you do 20 Special attacks in 1minite to bring the PPM calculation up to 2PPM "feral dps cycle being 15 or so seconds with 5 attacks seems feasable"?
I also found 2.5% procchance a good estimate after about an hour testing. I found the best way to incorporate it into a calculation was to view it as a fixed energy gain, depending on your attacks per minute.
You also need to consider you will normally do whatevery special comes next in your cycle with it (so assume an avery energy gain equal to the average energy cost of the specials used). Don't forget that - unlike normal specials - an ooc proced special miss/dodge will not refund any energy.
The big problem is that AP doesn't have much effect on lacerate threat, especially against bleed immune mobs. The obvious solution to that would be to change the threat scaling on the initial damage to 4/5 and drop the bonus threat. Yeah blocks would be an issue but they don't happen enough for it to be too much of an issue.
Our threat scales pretty well in spite of our tanking moves, and the extra FAP and expertise change should help a bit, although it's hard to find expertise on feral pieces. (Pray for a gem I guess).
I'm wondering if we should add a crafted items/professions section to the first post, if only to highlight how screwed we get in the one part of the game that would be the best way to provide the extra itemisation we need.
I'm wondering if we should add a crafted items/professions section to the first post, if only to highlight how screwed we get in the one part of the game that would be the best way to provide the extra itemisation we need.
Yeah, I'll have a look at it today, I noticed there's a lot of "what professions are good for a druid?" questions on IRC and on the official forums.
Here's the latest version of the tanking gear spreadsheet since a few people PM'd me to ask for it.
Things I AM working on, slowly:-
New heroic badge gear
Stamina Buffs
Ironskin/Defense pots
Updating weapons to reflect next patch changes
If there is anything else that people think should be in, feel free to PM me.
<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
Is anyone at all concerned with the new changes to devastate?
Never concerns me when someone gets a buff to their PvE performance =). The main reason to bring ferals is that we are so flexible in a raid, being able to DPS, tank and heal if needed.
I think feral druid TPS when not directly tanking the mob (VR, Gruul, Supremus) will still be better than warrior TPS. If we are all actually tanking, then why would it concern me if they get a buff? It just means maybe they can DPS his target first, and more safely than they could before.
Ferals will still be needed, have no fear. A bigger issue is that they still did not fix the Pillar of Ferocity! However with the ZA staff changes, I think it must only be a matter of time.
Also, with this instant shift > use a pot > instant shift back. I see from combat logs there is a 0.03-ish second time period where the druid is out of form. I know it is not significant, but what is to stop the druid simply being 1 hitted in this short time span? I guess it makes pots a "well, If I don't pot I am dead, if I do pot there is a 1% chance I am dead... may as well pot!" sort of decision? Due to having the 2T5 bonus in my tank set, I could see myself shifting for an instant regrowth fairly often, so assuming its not in actual fact all "instant" this is a concern for me.
There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.
Regarding the Devastate change, can someone link the source of that? I skimmed through the test realm forums but couldn't find a discussion about that.
That said, I do not think Bears will give up their superior TPS when MTing or atleast OTing to Warriors because Warriors still get most of their rage from getting hit and can't rely on their auto attack rage generation as much as Bears can.
As I've posted before, the GCD is going to really catch a lot of people, even with the new shifting change, especially if they used to play or ever played warriors. If you need a pot RIGHT NOW, you cant just click your macro if you're spamming abilities. While it doesnt activate the GCD getting back into form DOES. Maybe others dont tank the way I do but Im generally spamming buttons to build up threat fastest. If I need an emergency pot its highly likely I'll need to wait at least 1 second before my GCD is up and I can use it safely. The change is definitely a good one, but its still quite different than using pots in forms.
I agree with you Valerian. It will definitly take some getting used to.
Will take some training to use insane strenght pots or haste pots at ~0-15 energy without getting stuck at caster form because of the GCD of your last shred...
What a nice new challange instead of just timing your powershift
Regarding the Devastate change, can someone link the source of that? I skimmed through the test realm forums but couldn't find a discussion about that.
That said, I do not think Bears will give up their superior TPS when MTing or atleast OTing to Warriors because Warriors still get most of their rage from getting hit and can't rely on their auto attack rage generation as much as Bears can.
There is a post in the test realms but a more active one is in the warrior forums:
I'm quite comfortable as the preferred choice in the offtank slot but I would also like some viability as the maintank. Right now that choice is generally a druid gives higher threat but takes more damage and has no built in emergency buttons (FR doesn't quite cut it.) For some fights where you really need to burn the target down quickly then the druid is the better choice. As the threat gap shrinks the choice becomes more and more muddled and druids have the potential to be relegated to gimmick fights only and that is what I would not like to see happen.
I'm not looking to be the end all choice in the MT slot, but I feel for some fights druids should be a better choice (likewise paladins and warriors are better for others to promote a healthy tanking balance.)
You got yourself mixed up there, staves are considered blunt weapons so you want the weigthstone's as mentioned in the post you quoted.
My error....I should have quoted post #381 which (along with a feral dps spreadsheet) and subsequent discussion in these pages was my 'inspiration' to try the 'sharpening stones' on a staff.
When I armory the poster in post #381 I see a staff equipped. He, as well as others certainly seem to 'imply' the sharpening stones work.
Now I understand he may have equipped the stone on a dagger just to check the proc in forms, but subsequent posts (#'s 382, 383, and 384 in this thread) seem to indicate equipping sharpening or weightstones is 'ok' on staves. I'm wondering how they managed it.
Last edited by Calaziar : 10/24/07 at 3:10 PM.
Reason: clarity
Adamantite Sharpening Stones are the best BC augmentation but they do require an edged weapon so you'll have to use Adamantite Weightstones which give the same bonus but can be applied to a blunt weapon.
Adamantite Sharpening Stones are the best BC augmentation but they do require an edged weapon so you'll have to use Adamantite Weightstones which give the same bonus but can be applied to a blunt weapon.
Hey guys. I was just puttin around trying to figure out my "final" end game stamina value and came across something kind of strange...
18 stamina, atleast for night elves, is not being multiplied by bear / dire bear form! I haven't ever seen this posted anywhere before, and I apologize if it's been discussed in the past.
I was looking at my stamina.
"813 stamina
Increases health by 7950"
I was confused, shouldn't 813 stamina increase my health by 8130?
I checked around, and we found out, essentially, that 18 stamina (the base, level 1 stamina) is not counted by that. Makes sense, because 7950 + 180 = 8130
84 base stam x 1.25 (bear) x 1.2 (heart of the wild) = 126 stam, but the character pane lists 105 base stam in bear form.
HOWEVER.. When I would shift into bear form, the deficit was still 180 health!
When really it should be multiplying the 18 stam, to 27 stam in bear form.. so 270 health should be the deficit?
Meaning, that 18 stam that exists in your character screen, is NOT being multiplied by Bear Form and Heart of the Wild... making us miss out on 90 health!
While not exactly game breaking, still, 90 health is 90 health!
Thoughts? Is my math fuzzy? I've done calculations and gotten both ways...but then again I was always bad at math, anyone got the definitive answer?
Hey guys. I was just puttin around trying to figure out my "final" end game stamina value and came across something kind of strange...
18 stamina, atleast for night elves, is not being multiplied by bear / dire bear form! I haven't ever seen this posted anywhere before, and I apologize if it's been discussed in the past.
I was looking at my stamina.
"813 stamina
Increases health by 7950"
I was confused, shouldn't 813 stamina increase my health by 8130?
I checked around, and we found out, essentially, that 18 stamina (the base, level 1 stamina) is not counted by that. Makes sense, because 7950 + 180 = 8130
84 base stam x 1.25 (bear) x 1.2 (heart of the wild) = 126 stam, but the character pane lists 105 base stam in bear form.
HOWEVER.. When I would shift into bear form, the deficit was still 180 health!
When really it should be multiplying the 18 stam, to 27 stam in bear form.. so 270 health should be the deficit?
Meaning, that 18 stam that exists in your character screen, is NOT being multiplied by Bear Form and Heart of the Wild... making us miss out on 90 health!
While not exactly game breaking, still, 90 health is 90 health!
Thoughts? Is my math fuzzy? I've done calculations and gotten both ways...but then again I was always bad at math, anyone got the definitive answer?
I can recall being on the test server a few days ago and looking at AP in caster and cat gained from strength and finding some odd results of like 10 base strength not being calculated for AP. Possibly something to do with our "base" stats not being being added into the default HP and AP values.
10/23/07, 12:51 PM
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