Some pages ago, while discussing the Brutallus encounter for ferals, a question aroused in me concerning how Threat is calculated why different Thread Modifiers change. In specific, applying Rip to a target, then shifting to Bear Form.
So the question is: Do Threat Modifiers apply at the moment a DoT is casted, using same modifier for the whole duration, or does Threat Modifiers apply at the moment the DoT actually damages a target?

I don't believe I saw anyone with a definitive answer to this question.

It's time for an enterprising druid with a pocket healer to head out into the wilds and test it.
1) Build 5 CP in cat form on some mob.
2) Heal with very low-rank heals and zero gear until aggro is pulled.
3) Rip without performing a melee attack. (Making a macro for this purpose may help).
4) Wait for Rip to expire.
5) Heal until aggro is pulled, record the health value from Rip->Aggro pull.
6) Repeat 1-5, shifting bear form immediately after the Rip.

I'm not up on my threat modifiers, personally. But if your heal granularity is low enough, you should be able to determine whether the difference in heal-after-Rip numbers is within bounds of your error or whether there was a significant difference in generated threat.

One Rake should be enough to test it. Apply the Rake and sit in cat form while healer drops 5hp heals on you til they pull aggro. Then repeat except shift to bear after applying the Rake.

Unless 5HP heals exist, you'll probably want a 5 CP Rip in order to cover the error incipient in healing within a range of values.

While I don't have any "hard numbers" at this time, I've always found that putting a 5 point rip on Leo when he is in demon form will get him aggro'd on me after it ticks once he has swapped back to humanoid. It "feels" like its a pretty big tick; my DPS doesnt seem to understand the concept of 'NO DPS' or 'NO DOTS' when hes going through a transition... or post a WW for that matter.

Lowest rank of renew tics for 9 untalented. Close enough i'd say!

I would usually try to get a rip, rake and a lacerate on him when transitioning from demon phase and had very little trouble picking him up.

Roots works better as a threat testing spell -- no chance of accidentally autoattacking if you start out of melee range, no damage done before you're in bear, and no damage that can crit.

After playing around with Rawr, I finally figured out the 'perfect avoidance' set that'll work for me with the gear I have, should put me around 74%~ dodge or so with raid buffs/procs.

Thunderheart Cover - 12 agi meta gem + 10 agi gem - 17 dodge/16 def enchant
Pendant of Titans
Thunderheart Pauldrons - 10 agi x2 - 10 dodge/15def enchant
Thunderheart Chestguard - 10 agi x3 - 15 def enchant
Belt of Deep Shadow - 10 agi x2
Thunderheart Leggings - 15 stam - 40 stam 12 agi enchant
Footwraps of Wild Encroachment - 10 agi x2 - 12 agi enchant
Vindicator's Dragonhide Bracers - 5 agi 7 stam - 12 stam enchant
Thunderheart Gauntlets - 5 agi 7 stam - 15 agi enchant
Violet Signet of the Great Protector - 4 stats enchant
Ring of the Stalwart Protector - 4 stats enchant
Commendation of Kael'thas
Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch
Slikk's Cloak of Placation - 12 agi enchant
Wildfury Greatstaff - 35 agi enchant

Health: 15054
Agility: 574
Armor: 32294 <Perfectly fine for level 71 humanoids.
Stamina: 1162
Dodge Rating: 197
Defense Rating: 102
Resilience: 19
Dodge: 54.08041% < Unbuffed.
Mitigation: 74.54927%
Total Mitigation: 90.01324%
Damage Taken: 9.986761%
Hit Rating: 65
Crit Immune: Yes

What do you guys think?

I think you're missing 2 yellow gems to activate your meta. (Try the sethekk or mana tombs heroic gems, don't recall which)

Oh you are right, well I could go with 5 agi 5 hit for threat and still keep some agi. Probably use two of those on the belt.

What is this set for? I'm guessing trash since its against lvl 71 mobs? Since its not 100% avoidance, I'm trying figure out why you built this set.

It's for tanking humanoid adds on M'uru.

BTW, using the formula for armor DR from wowwiki:
The armor needed for cap against 71 mobs is 33075. This wasn't mentioned in any of the earlier posts and although it's easy to calculate, I figured I'd post it here for people who can't be bothered to look it up.

Defense - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft 1/2 way down

decent, for myself I do not change my tanking items too much. Assuming 8/8 T6 base options are illidan's helm, supremus' chest, hyjal trash cape, crafted chest/gloves, any sunwell dps/tank item for hit. Stanchion is an excellent avoidance/threat stave if you have it. Gurtogg's trinket is a near-must-have.

I have considered LC exalted ring, badge or SSO exalted neck, expertise/hit trinkets over badge but prefer either brut's or reliquery's necks. I consider the exalted hyjal/LC ring an option if you don't need the protector's ring. Rawr is a great tool

For door pickup I tried maxing hit and expertise but find 100ish total hit/expertise sufficient with a strafe of where the NPCs would go if you miss. cheers.

Also proud to say as a feral kitty or bear work for every encounter in sunwell, door and elites work for muru.

The setup is indeed for M'uru adds, and I am using the items that I currently have and ready to use as of this week's attempts. I would like to improve the gear in a week or so, hopefully the druid staff will drop, so far 0 drops from 3 kills of the Twins. Also, I used Rawr and set the target to level 71, and it can pretty much give you stats you need therefore you really don't need to calculate any thing for armor or defence/resil.

Edit - I may consider [Band of the Abyssal Lord] because it finally dropped, hoping to get the trinket off Bloodboil but that doesn't seem to drop since all tanks are after it, though it is quit amazing for dodge.

I use a dodge trinket on the 1st flurry, and stun the guy for the 2nd flurry (mage is dead, 1st berserker is dead or close). Being at or above the Armor cap isn't nearly as important as threat and dodge for me, I'm still at 32k armor mind you, but I'm also at 54% dodge unbuffed.

I am now very comfortable with my muru tanking set, i have 84% dodge+miss according to wws and around 17k HP. I can be solo healed by a single resto shaman who is casting chainheal on me.

Head T6 with 12 agi and 4agi/5def, 17dodge/16def
Neck Necklace of the deep 2x10agi
Shoulder T6 with 2x10 agi, 15dodge/10def
Back Slikks 12agi enchant
Chest T6 with 10agi,4agi/5def,5agi/6stam, 15 def enchant
Wrist T6 with 10 agi, +4stats
Hands T6 5agi/6stam, 15agi
Waist T6 10agi
Legs T6 10agi, 40 stam/12agi
Feet T6 10agi
Ring of Stahlwart Protector, +4stats
Angelistas Revenge, +4stats
Shadowmoon Insignia
Figurine - Empyrean Tortoise
Stanchion of Primal Instinct +35 agi

agi food + agi pot + melee shaman in group.

Last week i tried to go back and be expertise capped with only 72% dodge, armor capped and 19k hp, but survival was a day and night difference between the above setup and the 72% dodge setup. If you have good healers perhaps they can heal you with lower avoidance, but it is more mana consuming and your dps in P2 will be lower.

I think it's safe to go below the armor cap for more dodge, I mean if you are sitting at 71% mitigation, it's pretty say because having more stacked agility would be better than missing 4% armor.

Let's just assume that you are tanking the rogue for 60 seconds:

60 Seconds
1 swing per second for 100 phyical damage
100 phyical damage x 60s = 6000 phyical damage for 60 seconds and 1500 phyical damage with armor cap.
With 50% dodge, say you are are only eating 30 attacks since 30 are being dodged so 25 phyical damage x 30 hits:
You take total of 750 phyical damage.


Let's try this again with more dodge and less armor.
60 Seconds
1 swing per second for 100 phyical damage
100 phyical damage x 60s = 6000 phyical damage for 60 seconds and 1800 phyical damage with 70% armor mitigation.
With 75% dodge, say you are are only eating 15 attacks since 45 are being dodged so 30 phyical damage x 15 hits:
You take total of 450 phyical damage.

Should try to avoid as many hits as possible, it's very easy to sit at 75% dodge or even more with trinkets, grace of air totems, scroll of agility, and other stacking buffs, dodge will win you this fight by throwing most of the phyical attacks right off the table.

Also, may I also suggest to use your bash on the Beserker with flurry buff so it makes the healing go smoother and tank won't get gibbed or even spiked by eliminating all phyical damage for a few seconds. You could also use your trinkets like BoT or Moroes's Pocket watch and try to keep the Mangle idol buff up as much as possible.

The direction you're taking your calculations is correct. The only thing is, there is no level of gear where you can gain 25% dodge just sacrificing 4k armor. Otherwise, that's the correct way at looking at the numbers for mitigating damage.

The other constraint is that you want to be able to survive burst consisting of a 8-9k fireball and a number of hits on top of it, which is a function of armor and hp. Assuming you're tanking the mage.

The armor cap to gain against a level 71 is not that high (33075), and it's easy to stack dodge with agility gemmed gear or even dps gear while sitting at 28-29k armor, trust me I did my work on Rawr. Also, I do not tank the mage, she hasn't really been an issue, either.

You can eliminate most of the burst dmg with clever use of bash and a melee shaman constantly shocking the fireballs. So you end up taking most of the damage from berserkers. I would not go under 15-16k HP i think thats the barrier where you are not risking too much. But on the other side lowers more avoidance the chance to get a burst spike of 2-3 hits and a fireball. With 90% avoidance the chance that you get hit two times in a row is 1%, it will happen in a fight but the chance that you get a fireball at the same time is very small.