I would just like to note Faerie Fire(feral). Use this skill everytime it is cooled because it costs 0 rage to cast and generates threat. Dunno if someone has said that already i havent read the entire thread.

Terrible idea, don't do this. The threat it generates is miniscule; you can generate much more threat with that 1 GCD with Lacerate or Swipe. Just FFF every ~33sec or so to keep the debuff up, repeating on resists of course.

AFAIK this actually used to be a good idea way pre-BC when you only had maul and swipe to work with. These I suppose if you're off-tanking and are badly rage starved, it's something to do with your GCD that generates threat and doesn't use rage.

Thanks for all the work on sorting out how this extra strength rip works - I've added a summary to the first post (cat post -> dps cycle). Correct me if you think it's wrong.

Yeah, that's what I did, and was concerned about dipping below 18k health, though the Shadowmoon Insignia should give some leeway there. I've been playing with a few different sets in Rawr that I'm going to try, but was wondering if anyone had noticed a critical value of health below which there was too high a risk of getting gibbed between heals. One of the things I've been going back and forth on is the [Commendation of Kael'thas] vs. [Badge of Tenacity]. I'm leaning towards using the Commendation with Ironshields.

How about not a terrible idea. if you dont have the rage to waste it on shitty swipes for a single target its best to fill the gcd with something rather than nothing.

FFF is a net threat gain in rage limited situations, so no real reason not to use it there. If there's any possibility that you'll go over 100 rage, though, it's not worth it.

Anytime you're tanking something worthwhile, you're not likely to be rage starved.

I don't think I've used Faerie Fire threat for over a year. You can't even go rage starved spamming Swipe/Mangle/Lacerate every GCD without anything hitting you if you don't touch Maul - probably would be a net increase in threat than mauling yourself down to 0 rage and then using Faerie Fire.

YMMV but druid rage gen doesn't really go down as avoidance goes up, because of the way avoidance interacts with crit chance in druid mechanics, plus free +5 rages smothering you.

This is too weak a condition. If there's any possibility that you could use a Swipe/Lacerate instead without starving your next Mangle, it's not worth it.

Exactly. FFF should be used for threat purposes *only* when at range, or the next chance for you to get rage (be hit, or get hit) is more than 1sec away, and you have <13 rage.

The chance for that to happen are extremely remote, and pretty much only when you're OTing something, and miss several auto attacks in a row.

That's a far cry from using it every time its cooldown is up, which is quite retarded.

EDIT: And calling Swipe 'shitty'? Swipe is the highest single target TPS and DPS of all our GCD-limited abilities, at the high end, and you'd use Lacerate at the low end... Unless you're talking pre-level-64. Is that what you're talking about? 99.9% of us here only care about combat at 70, so you really should preface anything you say about pre-70 situations with a warning to that effect, if that's what you mean.

Oh I forgot to add - anyone feel like writing up a short list of Sunwell tankableness (I think I may have just made that word up) similar to the lists for the other instances? Would be appreciated (although it's really more for completeness than anything else).

Kalecgos: No advantage either way. May want the last tank on the dragon to be a warrior for Shield Wall, due to the enrage, but not a huge deal.
Brutallus: Feral+ProtWarr make the ideal tanking setup. Each provide their buffs/debuffs, Feral can DPS when not tanking.
Felmyst: For tanking the dragon, ferals are good for surviving the burst from Corrosion, but not a big advantage either way.
Eredar Twins: No advantage either way for tanking Sacrolash.

I haven't done M'uru or KJ yet to comment, though there's been lots of discussion about bears tanking the door adds in M'uru, so sounds like that's the most common role for us there.

M'uru: Warrior optimal for Sentinels (spell reflect), Paladin optimal for Void Spawns (aoe threat), no real advantage for any classes on sides. Druids work well on sides since there are 3 mobs (swipe), damage from two can be heavily negated through avoidance, and ferals can DPS during P2.
Kil'jaeden: Feral in DPS gear is an optimal tank. High health pool, high threat generation, can feral charge the knockback effect. By no means necessary though, some guilds prefer to use warriors or warlocks.

Add:
M'uru: Druids are optimal for sides due to DPS requirements in Phase 2.

Felmyst: Warriors are optimal for tanking the dragon due to magic damage reduction (corrosion is 10k damage, 8.4k for imp defensive stance warriors) Paladins are optimal for tanking skeletons. (personal note: a resto druid can solo heal his group with chain rejuv's and lifebloom, or MT/Encapsulate heal, I strongly recommend respeccing for this fight if you don't intend to tank it as our DPS is terrible here)

In regards to the previous discussion about gearing:
While it may seem a good idea to get your crit immunity from as few sources as possible, you don't want these sources to be overall worse items, I also see no reason to not enchant for crit reduction when there is no other worthwhile enchant for that slot (shoulders and I'll include bracers simply because you can just buy a 2nd pair of Badge/PvP bracers if you want to use them for DPS as well).

Can't quite say I agree with this. On all WWS of our Felmyst kills, overall damage done I come out along with the other melee, fury warrior excluded, due to ok dps on the ground phases (~1700) and swipe spam during skellie phases. Also I can't recall the number of times I've saved healers with charge + taunt or simply swiping away when our prot paladin has been busy building threat on the skellies he's already got. Although we're already raiding with 2 resto druids; so I'd say respeccing would be a good choice if you only have one or none at all.

On another note, I've been working on my M'uru gear, resocketed T5 for avoidance and put crimson spinels in Nether-Shadow Tunic. Armory link. Self-buffed (motw) in bear form that brought me to just above 52% dodge, 30k armor, 16.6k health, and 3 rating above the 2.2% cap. Raid buffed - BoK and agility totem would give me around another 10% dodge. I'm just a bit confused as to where the other 10-15% is supposed to come from as other people in this thread have mentioned. Is that including terror procs and using Moroes on every cooldown?

Indeed... The danger of corrosion is not just in the direct damage, but the debuff, which doubles all damage taken for 10sec. It's a burst of Corrosion+Melee, followed by another Melee (and maybe a 1k noxious tick) which kills. She doesn't crush, so you're talking 10k+9k+1k, plus another 9k, 2sec later. With 23k hp, I need to get just 5k of healing in those 2sec, to survive (and that's assuming I don't dodge either attack, which is even more unlikely given our higher avoidance than warriors). Warrior's will take something like 8.4k+12k+.8k, plus another 12k, 2sec later. The warrior, also with 23k hp, needs 10.2k healing in those 2sec.

Besides, the warrior is still valuable... Our prot MT still comes, respec'd to some weird arms/prot hybrid, and dps's, keeps debuffs up, and intervenes on the Corrosions, extending the time to get a heal to 4sec.

FAKE EDIT: Of course, those should all be 2.4sec and 4.8sec, due to imp thunderclap, provided by the prot/arms hybrid warr.

I hear you, I've just never experienced our warrior tank dying to burst. Yes, sometimes he's left with 10% health for a second, but he's always healed to full the next second. I can only remember one time he died; when he wasn't topped right before encapsulate and it landed on him. I tanked the two first pulls of Felmyst we ever did and died both times to the 30k burst. After that our warrior was avaliable and we're having him tank as I'm better suited to dps, our prot paladin takes care of the skellies and we like to keep as consistant a team as possible. (It could, I suppose, be that all our healers are simply that good!) Never tried to do the maths before, we just do whatever works for us. And a warrior tank works best for us.

Indeed, whatever works best for each guild, is best. I think Bear vs Warrior for Felmyst has some arguments both ways, my point was just that it's not a huge difference either way, so I'd just as soon say "No definite advantage either way".

What's mentioned is avoidance, not dodge, so it's another ~6% miss on top of your dodge. Everyone with high avoidance is counting on an enhancement shaman in group for agility totem. With your gear and the buffs I count on you would have about 72% avoidance which is not that bad, but a few big avoidance upgrades for you would be:
[Necklace of the Deep] with agility gems
Resocket shoulders with agility
Use a defense enchant on chest. (Not a big upgrade but 10sta is just disgraceful)
[Tameless Breeches] with agility gems
[Staff of the Forest Lord] or [Monster - Stanchion of Primal Instinct]
I use [Guardian's Leather Bracers] to stay crit immune.
Also, use T6 chest with other gems than pure sta instead of nether shadow tunic.

my guild uses me on fm primarily because i can put out more threat than our mt, a warrior.

unsure if this is a product of the players, but ive seen other ferals beat prot warriors on a single target set up pretty regularly.

This is wrong as Sunwell Radiance reduces our chance to be missed by 5% as well as the 20% less dodge.