That being said, I think in T5 instances ferals really shine in their role "OT most, MT few, DPS the rest". Oh, before you ask: you can replace 4T4 armor bonus with 3 pieces of T5, if I remember correctly.
Yeah, I'm starting to see that too. The problem is that it's going to be a pain in the big bear butt to convince the raid leader who is also the MT to let me MT some bosses.
I never got 4 T4 pieces, but I am making up for the armor by having badges gear. Even with 2T4 and badges gear, I'm sitting around 32,500.
In browsing 250+ attempts worth of logs until my eyes bleed, Negative Energy is never resisted fully or partially. The shadowbolt volleys from the spawns are though.
On several wws that I looked over for our guild, I have between 5-16% mitigated for shadow and fire damage. I've been searching other wws for druids and usually they don't have that additional mitigation %. My typical average of negative energy damage is around 950-980 while most others I have seen are 1025-1100 average.
If so, it doesn't use the normal combat log entry of "[Damage] hits [You] for 1000 (500 resisted)" which strikes me as odd.
There's not some hidden "but he tries really hard" variable built into the game. -Slake
I always love the "it doesn't fit my style of play" line. There are only two styles of play; Correct, and Incorrect. The only people that ever use this line are people with the incorrect style of play. -Sebudai
As for as Duoing (with another druid)goes you can do Sethek and Slave Pens reasonably well (though slave pens takes a fair while with only 2), though we usually battle res skip the first boss in Sethek. The second boss in mana tombs is killable too (maybe the first if you're in full Mother SR gear).
Underbog is doable but it takes about 3 people to make it smooth and the last boss can be annoying. Could probably be done with 2 people though it would take pretty long.
The hellfire instances are just a pain, between stealth detecting dogs and boss difficulty. Really isn't worth doing.
Are you talking about doing it in a full stealth group? Cause without that I can't see how you clear Steamvaults and even then it could get annoying (healing robot boss, enrage on Kaltithresh, elementals on the first boss). With a full stealth group things become a lot easier and most instances are doable though some are still hard (like SH for example).
I had just been wondering about if anyone had tried other instances successfully (hopefully needing 1 or less saps). I had been thinking about Crypts, Botanica, and Arcatraz.
This is a bovine-excreta argument. You are DPSing part of the time, ergo - you are not Tanking 100% of the time.
Does this now mean you should pass every single tanking upgrade such as the ring from Supremus or necklace from RoS to the full-time tanks (read: Warriors) ?
I used this argument myself when we did some re-writing of the dkp rules to lessen the amount of shards going to the guild bank. The argument I got thrown back at me was, "you are a tank. You get taken to tank. You'll be allowed to roll on any and all tanking gear you can use, but DPS gear goes to DPS prio". I'm still not particularly happy about this, but at least I know I won't have the other tanks bitching at me for rolling on the M'uru ring (I'm top DKP, yay). I'm still taken to some encounters to dps - Felmyst in particular, simply because I'm a very solid player who knows to move out of the frikkin fires (and I'm after the legs that never drop). My dps isn't total shite either - nearly 1700 the only time I dps'ed Brutallus (I normally tank) as our protadin was after the token drop. And that's without a lot of best-in-slot pieces that I simply will never get, because all rogues/hunters/dps warriors/dps shamans/retardins has prio.
The most annoying things about the "no dps gear for tanking ferals" rule many many guilds share, is that there normally is only one or two people affected by the rule. When we instated the rule I was the only feral and yes, it feels personal. Especially considering the very reason I chose a feral druid is due to the versatility in raids.
Anyway - I wanted to come in here and thank you all a whole bunch for the gear advices for M'uru. We had our second full night on it yesterday, and with a full avoidance set I only died a single time, due to turning my back on two mobs (frikkin bugged doorway, anyone?). I even managed to convince my MT and RL to not use a sheep ("but you're gonna die! it's so much safer! your healer's gonna panic!") when my healer reported there was pretty much no difference in healing me with or without it. That made tanking in there soo much easier, relieving a lot of stress. WWS reported a solid 76-81% avoidance on physical attacks, a huge difference from the ~60 the first night (without agi totem though). I also respecced 5/5 feral aggression (no dps warrior on my side) which made the drop in armor feel a lot less.
Originally Posted by Valerian
The second boss in mana tombs is killable too (maybe the first if you're in full Mother SR gear).
First boss in Mana Tombs is soloable if you've got a decent amount of SR. I never got a full Mother set as I've been tanking her every time I've been there - but the legs & some greenies with SR off the AH landed me at around 250 self-buffed, which was just enough. The most annoying part is if you don't resist the knockback spell he's got - but even then it's managable. Just run away a little bit and heal yourself up to full - he moves slower than normal runspeed, so kiting him if you're low on health works just fine. I only did it once, but if you're an enchanter I suppose it could turn out to be quite profitable; only real issue is that you need to clear the entire room or it adds to the boss (lesson learned the hard way).
Originally Posted by Odas
I had just been wondering about if anyone had tried other instances successfully (hopefully needing 1 or less saps). I had been thinking about Crypts, Botanica, and Arcatraz.
I was going to try Arcatraz first boss considering his melee attacks are all shadow as well, but the trash was too hard for me to solo. You need to clear at least half the room where the boss is in just to be able to fight him, or they'll just aggro on you. Their melee attacks are very weak, but both the dogs and the floating eyes have special attacks that are extremely painful; drain life ability for 5-6k from the eyes and summoned adds from the dogs. They're also not stunnable. Should be doable with a double stealth team though, especially if one's a healer.
Yes, did you see my HR? I had two wipes last night from missing mangle/maul after the taunt and the warlock pulled aggro and it was a wipe.
I tank Brutallus with HR under 50. Anyway as was already written, you should try to get expertise and not hit rating if you want to avoid such situation.
Other topic - dual stealth run in setthek halls - there's no reason to skip 1st boss, he's not harder than the last boss. As long as you have 2 druids, i am not sure about druid + rogue.
I tank Brutallus with HR under 50. Anyway as was already written, you should try to get expertise and not hit rating if you want to avoid such situation.
Other topic - dual stealth run in setthek halls - there's no reason to skip 1st boss, he's not harder than the last boss. As long as you have 2 druids, i am not sure about druid + rogue.
Druid/rogue should be fine, as long as the rogue is quick at dispatching the adds. I tank the first boss in sethekk heroic in cat form when 2-manning it with a druid friend, and only go bear when the adds spawn for aggro purposes. YMMV.
Botanica's DPS check is likely too steep to be worth it to 2-man. None of the bosses actually have any linked trash that I'm aware, but you would have to clear packs to fight the satyr and Laj, and every boss in there has some sort of mechanic that punishes you for undermanning - heals, add spawns, DPS checks, you name it. Even Sarannis is actually a pretty difficult boss with only two - her adds do a nasty arcane strike that's amplified by her debuff, and they keep on spawning if you take too long. Botanica is very smooth with a stealth group of 5, however.
Crypts should work all right, although it's tricky to underman. You can skip almost all the trash with stealth, though.
Other than the coilfang instances and Crypts/Sethekk, most instances are in general not worth the time it takes to stealth them. It can be a little bit faster, but in general they involve lots of trash clearing (second boss' room in Blood Furnace, say) and probably don't take much less time than doing the instance normally, given the additional time it takes to put an all-stealth group together.
You realize that's my 3rd pair of shoulders right?
Yep, it was right there in the little section of the armoury that says "3rd pair of tier 6 shoulders".
Seriously though there are 2 things you can do to get round having a bad string of dodge/parries at the start of Brutallus - which is always a risk - I'm, sure we've all had it happen. One is (if you are Scryer) to use the [Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve] which gives 100 expertise on proc and usually procs pretty quickly at the start of the fight. The second is to tell people on vent that you have had a bad avoidance streak and warn them to go easy for a few more seconds. Even better, do both. Regemming half your gear because you can't communicate with your idiot warlock is a bit too much like chucking the baby out with the bathwater.
<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
Crypts should work all right, although it's tricky to underman. You can skip almost all the trash with stealth, though.
Had a problem in heroic crypts. The first boss' aura knocked us out of stealth and agroed the pack in front of him. This alone makes the instance pretty worthless (since you need to kill that pack fast or the pat agros too) not to mention both the bosses are pretty annoying to kill.
I asked this on BB, but it might be easier to get a reply here: can someone briefly recreate the calculation that shows 156 defense rating is necessary to be uncrittable? When I do it, I get 154.
You need 65 Def Skill to be uncrittable (2.6/0.04). 65 Def Skill is 153.75 def rating (65*1.5*82/52). Can't have fractional def rating (nor def skill for that matter, so 154 is identical to 155), so you need 154. I think the 156 number came from being based on the early-BC notion of needing 60 def rating per 1% anticrit, which is close, but inaccurate (it's actually 25*1.5*82/52=~59.1346...). Rawr uses the exact math, and ends up finding you uncrittable after 154.
You need 65 Def Skill to be uncrittable (2.6/0.04). 65 Def Skill is 153.75 def rating (65*1.5*82/52). Can't have fractional def rating (nor def skill for that matter, so 154 is identical to 155), so you need 154. I think the 156 number came from being based on the early-BC notion of needing 60 def rating per 1% anticrit, which is close, but inaccurate (it's actually 25*1.5*82/52=~59.1346...). Rawr uses the exact math, and ends up finding you uncrittable after 154.
Ok, cool, so 154 is correct. Guess it doesn't matter though, since I've been relying on Rawr for everything anyway.
So consensus is that there aren't any soloable heroic bosses? I hadn't really thought about it much before but I could still use a couple badge upgrades and hitting some instance to get an extra badge in 10 minutes or so would work out well. Wondering if there is a good way to put this avoidance set I've been working on to use .
So consensus is that there aren't any soloable heroic bosses? I hadn't really thought about it much before but I could still use a couple badge upgrades and hitting some instance to get an extra badge in 10 minutes or so would work out well. Wondering if there is a good way to put this avoidance set I've been working on to use .
If you have an extremely high avoidance set you can solo the first boss in crypts. If you are the only viable target he won't use any special abilities. The only thing you have to avoid is getting hit or the bleed. I haven't done it in a while but I was able to with ~92% total avoidance by using activated trinkets to let the bleed fall off and getting somewhat lucky. If you wait until he paths all the way to the back of the platform you can pull him without aggroing the group in front of him due to his aura unstealthing you. Alternatively you can use an invis pot and run up there.
I've been in a stealth run group with a rogue and a resto druid for some time (I'm feral), the 3 of us have been able to easily 3 man all 3 colifang instances, 3 of the 4 in auch and 3 of the bosses in botanica (skipping the lasher boss)
You'd be surprised how many bosses you can actually "pull to x corner and not aggro anything" We've currently got all 3 colifang instances down in under an hour. Thats a Primal for each of us, as well as badges. Stealth running everything possible nets around 20 badges in ~3 hours, every day. I'll have to take a FRAPS next time we do a full run if people want to see how we pull off our shenanigans.
I'd be very interested in seeing such a fraps, Relative. 20 Badges, several nethers, and lots of shards sounds like a solid reward for 3 hours of work.
Along those same lines, I wanted to mention something that I put to good use when I solo-farmed the 12-agi to boots recipe (back when I was in T4/T5 gear), which drops off the skeletons beyond the first boss in Crypts. If you wait for the boss to path to the back of his platform, and then stealth into the alcove on the left side, you can avoid his aura entirely. Wait for him to path back to the front, then walk on by. I got a bit lucky and got that Dexterity to boots recipe after only a few hours of solo farming, back when like 4 people on my server could do it.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I was pretty happily using the Druid Item Swap addon before this patch for equipping healing weapon +offhand. Now that they've changed equipping weapons to interrupt spells there doesn't seem to be any way to recreate the utility of that with macros. At this point I'm honestly considering getting rid of nurturing instinct and putting my shard of the virtuous and aran's sapphire back in the bank. However, I was wondering if it might still be worth the effort to macro. Since weapons can be switched in even while the gcd is on (at the cost of refreshing it), I'm thinking maybe planning a moment ahead, switching weapon while still in cat form, waiting for the gcd, then start casting heals might be manageable. What I'm not sure of is how to decide what will be a worthwhile tradeoff. IE: How many heals to make up for the lost damage/additional gcd time at the beginning and end, or (more likely since you don't always have consistent damage to be planning for) how many heals would be necessary to make it worth risking 2 seconds before you can start casting the first heal in your chain? Obviously it's related to how much +heal you get from your weapon/offhand, but I'm wondering if the break-even point is going to be anywhere near close enough to make it worth it. Previously, I'd generally either LB, rejuve, LB (if still taking damage) then go back to face chewing, or if I'd taken a big hit and the mob had moved to another target or I had a chance to stun and move away, Regrowth, LB then back to cat (or if more danger was immediate, bear and regenerate to give the hots time to work). If it would take more than 2 or 3 spells to break even with the lost time it's just not going to be worth it in my opinion. Any thoughts?
That being sad, I think in T5 instances ferals really shine in their role "OT most, MT few, DPS the rest". Oh, before you ask: you can replace 4T4 armor bonus with 3 pieces of T5, if I remember correctly.
Let me ask the same question about t6, which I plan to buy in the next couple weeks.
Currently I use 5T4. I plan to get t6 legs and either t6 gloves or [Handwraps of the Aggressor]. Would swapping t4 legs for t6 legs by itself be worth it, losing the bonus, or do I need a t6 chest as well?
I don't know about the rest of you, but I was pretty happily using the Druid Item Swap addon before this patch for equipping healing weapon +offhand. Now that they've changed equipping weapons to interrupt spells there doesn't seem to be any way to recreate the utility of that with macros. At this point I'm honestly considering getting rid of nurturing instinct and putting my shard of the virtuous and aran's sapphire back in the bank. However, I was wondering if it might still be worth the effort to macro. Since weapons can be switched in even while the gcd is on (at the cost of refreshing it), I'm thinking maybe planning a moment ahead, switching weapon while still in cat form, waiting for the gcd, then start casting heals might be manageable. What I'm not sure of is how to decide what will be a worthwhile tradeoff. IE: How many heals to make up for the lost damage/additional gcd time at the beginning and end, or (more likely since you don't always have consistent damage to be planning for) how many heals would be necessary to make it worth risking 2 seconds before you can start casting the first heal in your chain? Obviously it's related to how much +heal you get from your weapon/offhand, but I'm wondering if the break-even point is going to be anywhere near close enough to make it worth it. Previously, I'd generally either LB, rejuve, LB (if still taking damage) then go back to face chewing, or if I'd taken a big hit and the mob had moved to another target or I had a chance to stun and move away, Regrowth, LB then back to cat (or if more danger was immediate, bear and regenerate to give the hots time to work). If it would take more than 2 or 3 spells to break even with the lost time it's just not going to be worth it in my opinion. Any thoughts?
You can still swap weapon during first GCD of your spell. What was the timing of your swapping before? If you open up with a regrowth/ht to take full advantage of the healing swap, you just need to swap to lifebloom (for minimal loss) then do whatever.
It's weaker than its previous version, but I think it'll still be worth it.
Let me ask the same question about t6, which I plan to buy in the next couple weeks.
Currently I use 5T4. I plan to get t6 legs and either t6 gloves or [Handwraps of the Aggressor]. Would swapping t4 legs for t6 legs by itself be worth it, losing the bonus, or do I need a t6 chest as well?
These questions are answered by Rawr. If people answer your questions, they have probably looked in Rawr.
Lyssa, I used to feel the same way that you did about not being able to roll on dps items since we ARE a hybrid. However, if we're the lone feral in the raid, we were usually brought in for our ability to provide a different type of tank from a warrior. Arguably the best dps neck in the game is off Brutallus, and for the raid's sake, should it go to a feral who tanks 80% of the time or a rogue who's LONE job is to dps. There are only a few tanking pieces that we need to compete with other tanks for in sunwell. While our chest, legs, and helm will be in high demand for many classes. Hopefully, your guild realizes how vital those pieces are for you before writing you off as trying to pick up dps items.
I personally enjoy dpsing as a cat, which makes me keep my gear up to date. I had the gloves of immortal dusk created AFTER all of our other classes that needed motes were finished. But until then, it's better to pass and benefit the entirety of the raid when it comes to items. Because when it comes down to it, what good is the clutch of demise going to do for your raid when it's sitting in your bags for trash AFTER a boss or on a rare occasion.
Surely, there will be bears that come in here to get on my case as to not being a true hybrid and supporting the suppression of a feral's potential/flexibility in raids, but that's how it will usually play out if you and your guild is all about max/min for progression. In sunwell, a feral provides way more flexibility as a tank than a prot warrior does.
We typically use:
Kalec: feral/prot war/prot war
Brut: feral/prot war
Fel: prot war/feral dps
Twins: feral/prot war
M'uru: feral/prot war/prot war/prot pally
KJ: feral/prot pally
im a feral druid in a guild that has MH and BT cleared and has started making its way into SWP ( atm learning Brutallus).
i have a question regarding gemmin the T6 pieces for Sunwell.Looks like every tank that goes in Sunwell goes all out on stamina.
Atm i have 4/8T6(chest legs shoulders and head).
IMO the 4 pieces bonus is much more useful for cat than it is for bear so basically i gemed all the 4 pieces with agi/relentless earthstorm/cenarion expedition enchant/scryer DPS enchant/nethercobra leg patch.
im thinking to use the chest and shoulders for 2 piece bonus(the badge tanking leggings are anyways superior to the T6 ones and ill use the T5 helm for tanking instead). I have no problems with being crit immune, so the shoulder DPS enchant wouldnt be a great problem...but then comes the issue of those 5 gems( 3 on chest and 2 on shoulders)...atm i have 50 agility from those when it could be 75 stamina.
i still havent tested the 4T6 pieces DPS yet...usually i do around 18-20% of my DPS with rip..so 15% more to that would give 3% or so more damage overall...lost about 1.50% crit compared to my old 2T4 gear but won around 150 AP.
So having in mind the roles that a druid needs to fulfill in Sunwell, what would you suggest?
07/16/08, 4:25 PM
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