The whole ensemble brings you to around 280ish FR while leaving enough room to still get crit immune. Reaching cap FR isn't quite as important really as staying crit immune, so your gear choices should reflect that, it's fairly easy to hit the 250+ FR mark without dropping any crit immunity, pushing beyond that typically takes some luck in getting the items to stay crit immune.
I've recently picked up a couple of things on the cheap and so I could probably alter my gear list a bit to be able to pick up more FR from the [Amulet of the Torn-Heart] while staying crit immune.
Last edited by Junpei : 10/27/07 at 11:08 PM.
Reason: Updated it so that it's actually useful.
You got dazed ~2 seconds after the flame spawned in that video, fyi
I have my own issues when tanking the flames, but daze hasn't been one of them. Walking backwards or strafing prevents that for the most part and you should pretty much always be in a position where you don't need to move too far/quickly.
>_> Doesn't count, always happens if you want to start at the end of a patch instead of where it spawns
In regards to Beam dodging, I'm fairly sure I strafe jumped there-- which will always avoid being dazed.
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In regards to Blood legion I'm going to go out on a limb and say alot of the Insane rogue dps comes from when their Dual legendaries are actually beating on Illidan --- Worst case you could set up paths so that win tank #1 is tanking beyond a line of fire tank #2 is inside his first trail allowing melee to swap
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Junpei: Here is what I wear for 299 FR (295 max unbuffed without fire aura) and Uncritable
Helm: T6 (T5 works the same in your model)
Neck: Amulet of the Torn-Heart (TK Quest Chain Cipher of Damnation)
Shoulders: T6
Back: Resolute Cape +15FR enchant
Chest: Heroic
Bracer: Vet's with 8 agi gem
Gloves: Heroic
Belt: Blastguard with 2x15stam
Legs: Heroics
Boots: Heroics
Ring: Exalted Kara + Pheonix-Fire
Trinket: Spyglass + Dawnstone Crag (in lack of Shadowmoon Insignia)
Wep: Wildfury
Lets me sit at 17k Unbuffed and maxed uncrit/FR --- not sure how your HP compares
I see a lot of people (well, you and Dukes) using the [Blastguard Boots] and [Blastguard Pants] over the [Inferno Hardened Boots] and [Inferno Hardened Leggings]. Aside from the badge cost, the Inferno pieces have more FR and might let you make up the Sta (and crit immunity) you lose in other slots, like Cloak. Is it just the badge cost, or is there some other reason?
I see a lot of people (well, you and Dukes) using the [Blastguard Boots] and [Blastguard Pants] over the [Inferno Hardened Boots] and [Inferno Hardened Leggings]. Aside from the badge cost, the Inferno pieces have more FR and might let you make up the Sta (and crit immunity) you lose in other slots, like Cloak. Is it just the badge cost, or is there some other reason?
For me, it's mostly just the stam. The more hp I have the more buffer I've got for those moments where you are either stuck in a blaze (really bad beams can cause this sometimes) for a few seconds longer then you'd like. With gemming, [Blastguard Boots] can be 57 stam and [Blastguard Pants] can be 75 stam. My gear list leaves me not very far from being capped and with either an Ironskin Elixir or even possible a Fort flask with newer gear I can put in the Torn-heart amulet and be FR capped while crit capped. Maybe even without them actually.
I cannot for the life of me remember why I felt the need to put a voidsphere in the pants though >.>
I'm at work currently so I'll have to check when I get back in about an hours time or so.
Thank you guys for all your hard work on this thread, I've been browsing it for a while. I am not near the gear lvl of most of you guys/gals here but one thing to consider in your calculations would be the pre BC leg enchant [Lesser Arcanum of Resilience]. Not sure how hard it might be to obtain now, I picked up 2 right at the start of BC.
Junpei: Here is what I wear for 299 FR (295 max unbuffed without fire aura) and Uncritable
Helm: T6 (T5 works the same in your model)
Neck: Amulet of the Torn-Heart (TK Quest Chain Cipher of Damnation)
Shoulders: T6
Back: Resolute Cape +15FR enchant
Chest: Heroic
Bracer: Vet's with 8 agi gem
Gloves: Heroic
Belt: Blastguard with 2x15stam
Legs: Heroics
Boots: Heroics
Ring: Exalted Kara + Pheonix-Fire
Trinket: Spyglass + Dawnstone Crag (in lack of Shadowmoon Insignia)
Wep: Wildfury
Lets me sit at 17k Unbuffed and maxed uncrit/FR --- not sure how your HP compares
Right, home now and looking at my gear. It's exactly as I posted. It puts me at 17035hp unbuffed with 20.45% dodge and 2.65% crit reduction at 281FR.
I'm assuming you've got +15 resilience on chest which means your resilience gives you around 1.56% reduction there meaning you'd have to make up 60-64 defense rating to make up the rest of crit immunity, trinket and ring give a total of 51. So I'm assuming your head and/or shoulder is enchanted with the defense ones?
I think that would make all the difference really since all my gear is enchanted with the offensive enchants where possible. If I could get hold of T6 helm I could reenchant my t5 one to be defensive stats to reach crit cap and then add in Torn-Heart to put me at 297 FR with crit immunity.
Maybe I should be a bit more aggressive in my bidding for the t6 helm next time : b
In response to Felorin: It was something that was considered early on when we were jsut getting there but really passing up 40stam and 12agility for 20 resistance just didn't stack up at all.
296 FR, crit immunity no sockets wasted with void spheres, a decent amount of hit and ~16300 hp unbuffed (No endurance of course). This gets over 23k if I have an imp and non- improved commanding.
I get to use my best piece- t6 legs and have a slight buffer whereby at full hp I can take a beam and a 75% resisted melee hit and live dependant on healing.
*offtopic*
some how this is wrong grammer dunno why..
*offtopic*
Try capitalising properly next time.
--
Junpie, one might consider slotting in a PvP/Gladiator item in favour of what you're using now.
A 2piece bonus will get you close to crit immune without any particular effort already.
I'm surprised more people don't use the resistance flask- it has decent hp, some badly needed offensive stats and enough resistance to let you use a normal item elsewhere.
The Chromatic Wonder flask is excellent for multi-purpose feral raiding.
Using some Toskk equivelancies for a raid buffed cat (say, 4500 AP and 45% crit chance) of 2.26 AP per strength and 3.00 AP per agility (assumes kings and SotF), 18 strength and 18 agility is worth about 95 AP. Not quite a relentless assault flask, but pretty close.
Defensively, 18 stam gives 306 health to a Night Elf (321 to a Tauren?). The 18 agility with kings and SotF provides 1.39% extra dodge. That combines into a nice tanking flask.
Reaching cap FR isn't quite as important really as staying crit immune
I have the exact opposite opinion. The occasional 4k crit (like once a try) isnt going to kill you. I always go for 365 FR (badge legs, gloves and boots and some more). It certainly will put less stress on your healers. At least thats my experience and I have tried with <365 as well.
If you aren't crit immune there's always the chance for a 25% resist lining up with the crit causing a ~17k melee hit. If that happens not to line up with a big heal, that's a world of pain.
Not having crit immunity = burst (potentially semi-instagib).
Not having 365 fire res = more damage over time (i.e. more healer stress)
I don't see why anyone wouldn't go for both when it's perfectly possible to get both and still have reasonable other stats. I'm only crit immune with a flask on - I happened to forget 2 weeks ago and didn't get crit because it's that small a chance, however I wouldn't have intentionally done it and just because it happened once doesn't mean I won't still be taking flasks from now on. Taking unecessary risks just isn't good.
I was wondering why Volden's Spreadsheet isn't added to the list. It's the "best" spreadsheet I personally found, much because of it's user friendliness. I can just select gear from a dropdown menu, select buffs and it calculates my DPS, much like all the awesome rogue spreadsheets going around. Just the kind I love!
I much prefer these kind of spreadsheets to the "input stats, get dps" thingies.
I'm not sure if it's been updated recently though; I'd love to see a new version with the 2.3 stats and more gear options.
On a side note, did anyone post a list of "best possible feral DPS gear" with the 2.3 changes in mind, including Arena gear? I couldn't find one.
Anyone did the math on Mangle vs Shred with the new idol and Ashtongue trinket yet?
Meaning if you instead of the usual Mangle/Shred/Rip cycles only use Mangle/Rip. It would mean a 6/10*65 agi buff vs 88 damage on Shred and 280ap on a trinket slot vs for example bloodlust brooch (118ap in average).
It would also mean that you virtually never miss the Mangle buff on Shreds or Rip tics or other bleeding effect raiddebuffs (like it might have happened before for the distracted druid *cough*).
If you have it available to you, two piece Merciless Gladiator for the set bonus makes reaching crit immunity very easy. I've been using a hodgepodge of gear for my FR set, but I'm also a bit of a slacker. For example...
That's 103 Resilience right there if your gem colors match. Swap out shoulders for the gloves (and match Gem colors) if that suits you better. This leaves you free to focus on your FR and Stam in every other slot.
The Everbloom idol is worth around 20-30dps depending on your shred/mangle ratio. I think we pretty much established that it wasn't worth using the new idol over it - the new idol looks pretty solidly like a tank idol to me - and that it wasn't worth alternating them as you'd loose a GCD from swapping idols at just the time you really wouldn't want to.
Assuming both of those effects are up constantly i.e. you ALWAYS have an extra (65*1.1*1.1) agility and (140*1.1*1.1) strength, and you only mangle then rip, Lolaan's sheet shows around a 90dps loss for my gear and spec. Your mileage obviously might vary but I think that's pretty clear. Mangle doesn't scale anywhere near as well as shred.
<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
<Zyla> If there's gonna be a dick in the room besides my own, i'd rather it have to be my brother's. You know that kinda sounds bad all typed out like that,
Due to the Ashtongue trinket being "only" 40%, there's no guarentee that it would always be up. Add to that the massive differential between Shred and Mangle in both base and scaling damage - one getting ((x*1.6)+0.65y)*1.1*1.2 = 2.112x+0.85y and the other getting ((x*2.25)+y)*1.1*1.3 = 3.2175x+1.43y - and it just won't work. Assuming you get 400 extra AP from the idol and the trinket, you'd gain approximately 143 total damage on rip, with the 4t6 bonus.
The difference is just too much even with every bonus you can think of added (2t6, 4t6, idol of terror, ashtongue talisman are all that I can think of).
Well Dukes you can spam mangle in cat form, so always being up is not the stupidest of assumptions. But I agree with everything else, shred is just so amazing compared to everything else.
That crappy dot (claw?) and FB could really use a buff. Mangle I don't think so - it's just there to buff shred and rip and be kept up all the time.
That said, Ashtongue+new idol is a great combo for soloing for sure.
<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
<Zyla> If there's gonna be a dick in the room besides my own, i'd rather it have to be my brother's. You know that kinda sounds bad all typed out like that,
FB is where it needs to be... a finisher for PvP or in limited situations (1-2% / Bleed Immune).
Having it non-crit for 2.5k-3k (Roughly what I imagine it would need to be to be worth using) would be freaking OP if it did crit especially in PvP. (Although I guess I can break 5k on PTR without talents Rip is still rediculous)
Rake yeah I guess, only ever load it up on Warriors/Paladins in PvP
Completely unbuffed I just went on PTR and did a 1.9k FB against boglash (had to use claw to make sure I didn't kill him before I got 5 combo points!). Looking at char screen showed a damage range of 350-370, and my last default hit was 255 (meaning ~1/3rd damage reduction). That's around 3k non-crit (i.e. almost 7k crit!) whilst unbuffed against a zero armour target, without the 15% increase talent (but with 4t6, which is 15%) and not with a full energy bar (although it doesn't really make much difference). I should think if you specced it, raid buffed against a 0 armour target you could get almost 10k, which is freaking ridiculous and shows why they don't want to make it better. If they removed the energy->damage conversion and just let it sit at a static 35 energy, it might actually be better than rip in a few situations.
Rake is the crappy dot. And yes, it sucks. Claw is the non-mangle direct attack.
If you aren't crit immune there's always the chance for a 25% resist lining up with the crit causing a ~17k melee hit. If that happens not to line up with a big heal, that's a world of pain.
I havent seen that yet and we killed him every week since august 24. But yes I agree though that its fully possible and much desired to get both, of course.
10/27/07, 11:38 PM
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