That link just times out for me. Here is mine KilJaeden.xml - FileFront.com. Admittedly all pieces are not best-in-slot, but it's the best I've managed to get as DPS gear is considered offspec for me in my guild. Shoulders and legs and head have tanking enchants as I use them mainly for tanking. "DPS" enchants for the other slots.

We haven't gotten the breaths under perfect control yet, so no, I did not always get it. We didn't set up a proper drum rotation either until late last night - I was in a group with enh shaman, 2xBMs, fury warrior, with 4 drums.

We don't have any active rogues so no expose weakness, we don't have a balance druid so no imp FF, we don't have a retri paladin, and yesterday our arms warrior wasn't avaliable so no 4% buff either. WWS Loading... from last night. Any more advice appreciated, although I think I do manage enough TPS by now for it to be enough. By the time we were at ~70% I was always on at least 50k more threat than the second person, most of the time higher.

I have to mention I really enjoy the simplicity of my job at KJ after having dealt with the entrance side of M'uru adds for months!

Kil'jaeden shows differently, no-one is at 3k sustained tps. The big tps/ dps calc problem for KJ seemed to be fire bloom damage contributing to both. Rogues with salv have a 0.49 threat modifier so if you're double their threat you're roughly double their dps- what dps are your rogues pulling and are you 100% ahead of them?

I think the best idol for the fight is very obviously [Idol of the Raven Goddess]. I've yet to kill him but I feel my TPS is enough but my survivability just isn't- any time I get a fire bloom I can just fall over dead- currently going with ~19.5k hp and a bit over 1700 sustained tps on the longer pulls.

I'd like to know more about the knockback- sometimes he just won't use it then he'll start chaining it. Feral charge back? Knocked back immediately. Feral charge back, step back slightly? Still knocked back immediately. Feral charge back, move out of range, step forward again to be just in range? Knockback again!

Heres my current KJ setup I run:

Helm: [Thunderheart Cover]Green gem+3% bonus crit, more or less my M'uru helm/part of my high avoidance set
Neck: [Telonicus's Pendant of Mayhem] A few obvious upgrades if you manage to get your hands on dps loot
Shoulders: [Demontooth Shoulderpads] purple/blue + tanking enchant
Back: [Crimson Paragon's Cover] High stam -- occasionally parries (not enough to warrant shard imo)
Chest: [Thunderheart Chestguard] triple blue --- Old chest no longer used for anything besides this set
Wrist: [Insidious Bands] /w hit, Old DPS bracers
Gloves: [Gloves of the Forest Drifter]
Waist: [Thunderheart Waistguard]
Legs: [Leggings of the Immortal Beast]
Feet: [Thunderheart Treads] /w some form of run speed - necessary for pretty much every pair of boots imo
Rings: [Angelista's Revenge] [Band of the Abyssal Lord]
Trinekts: [Dragonspine Trophy] [Tsunami Talisman]
Weapon: [Stanchion of Primal Instinct]
Idol: [Idol of Terror]

Goals when forming set:
Meet requested 20k buffed hp.
Maintain 4pc for Swipe
High Threat (Hit+Apen, especially if you are running expose+survival, threat)

Not going to lie it was mildly rushed just to meet 20k hp on the fly. If I had to change anything I would definitely try to swap harness + bracers --- except my normal chest is pure agi which nets a huge stam hit over pure stam t6. Possibly blindfold + bracers if stam permits. Current Idol = Self-Crit whore ---- Correct choice for this fight is definitely Raven goddess considering the dps restrictions.

Here's last night parse of the kill Kj kill 09/23. Finish with about 1087 dps (93% prescence, downtime from bubbles/pre-breaths/combat res (maybe that attempt? not sure)

Only real threats you have to worry about are badass ret paladins / dual-glaive warrior. As long as my swipes are critting for over 1000 I know threat should be fine for the entire fight.

A few tips I suppose include barkskinning with ~3 seconds left on shadow spikes + find a trinket besides shard of contempt... definitely not worth using.

-----

On a side note: I really don't quite understand the stress of side-tanking on M'uru over the past few weeks of doing it (Pre-nerf kill in dif. guild used an AoE-strat in which I would have to pick up all 3 adds and drag them to the middle of the room and call AoE. Ultimately the most stressfull time I've ever had tanking (maintaining threat on melee's focus fire + mage +2nd berzerker from constant seed-spam), although I guess it still gives you the "if I screw up/miss one the raid pretty much wipes" feeling. Tanking KJ is definitely more relaxing and enjoyable, turn on that music and go berserker-mode (lolAthene) on threat.

I have been playing a feral druid for a while now, mainly kitty DPS and doing some offtanking. So i have been using all kinds of calcs like RAWR and gearlists etc. to see how items rank. And almost every one of them promotes T4 2set bonus as very very good.
Now my question would be why is that Besides the obvious theoretical free shreds/mangles/rips for Bloodlust procs.
I have been sorting my WWS stats from different Black Temple and Mount Hyjal encounters and seems like the average procrate for Bloodlust is 5-6 times per ~4 minute encounter, so its about 100-120 bonus energy per 4 minutes.
Without any serious theorycraft skills, i would say that its not that much, 2-2,5 free shreds, which makes about 6000-8000 damage if it crits (considering "good" crits are around 3000 damage usually). Wouldnt raw AP and crit be better than those procs at some point? Or where would be the line drawn, where the AP/Crit gain from shoulder/glove slots would outweight the 2set bonus, but smaller stats from those 2 items?

Also i have been looking for some WWS examples with feral DPS druid who can spit out decent dps, still yet to find any. Most of the discussions consist of some random druids doing 900 dps in Karazhan runs
I would actually like to find a dedicated DPS feral to check out the gear and stats and the DPS number for that gear.

Im currently around 3875 AP and 43.46% crit self-buffed in cat form and the most damage i have been able to do is a bit below 1500 on Teron (with 98% DPS time), with some 1300-1450 DPS tries on some other encounters. I would imagine that with my stats and gear i would be able to spit out a bit more. I have to note that im not powershifting at all, i have no manglebot and i never get GOA. Usually its just SOE, WF, Battle Shout in my group, and 1-2 drums besides me on good days.

Anyhow any good tips would be welcome, perhaps i have missed some aspects of kitty dps, i would gladly be enlightened.

Very basic theorycrafting approach to the potential gain:

4% proc chance on 2t4.

60 white hits / minute, approx 1 ability per 4 second period (averaging an ability at 40 energy, including powershifting / OoC gains and reduction due to rip not procing / dodges). This gives around 75 hits per minute, or approximately 3 procs per minute (75 * 0.04 = 3).

Provisional gain = 60 energy per minute, or approximately 60/42 = 1.42 shreds per minute.

Average shred is around 1.5k, or 3.6k crit. With a 50% crit rate, this gives about 2500 damage for an average shred, so about 3750 damage per minute, or about 62.5 dps.

This is modified due to frequency of powershifting (potential to lose ticks of energy when you shift, if unlucky), frequency of getting to 70 energy ready to rip->mangle, getting an OoC proc and then a bloodlust tick with a normal tick and wasting energy, and time spent not actually hitting the boss on any fight where you have to spend time not hitting them.


As it says in the first post, no matter what gains anything tells you you should be getting from it, go from experience. I personally dropped the 2t4 bonus after getting 4t6 (when there weren't the extra pieces from SWP to get both), and found I got a DPS increase overall. Don't blindly accept anything when it comes to theorycrafting, as you'll never get the perfect gain in game that you may be able to theorycraft out of game.

Are you using any set bonuses with those stats? 2T4 and 4T6 are both fairly large bonuses which are not evident when just stating stats. Also whats your hit/expertise at? Are you powershifting?

Hitting about 1500 dps without 2T4 and 4T6 and moderate to low powershifting should be about right I'd say. Getting much higher than that is pretty tough without some odd stacking (multiple bloodlusts, full drums etc) or requires sunwell gear (so you can use both T4 and T6 set bonuses).

Nope, not using any bonuses (i have just 1 piece of T6 and switched out the T4 pieces).
Hit rating is 149 and expertise rating is 11 (just Shard of Contempt). And i'm almost not powershifting at all.

Sunwell gear would probably boost my dps a lot indeed, sadly my guild isn't just quite "there" to clear SW

You're over the hit cap and some of the rogue gear you're using is sub-optimal. The T4 set bonuses will likely help a lot considering the pieces you can replace are not terribly good (Helm and Gloves for instance). No metagem in the helm is a problem too. I suggest downloading Rawr and using it to find a more optimal setup for your dps gear.

Well the gloves are actually the best gloves out of anything attainable before SW. When looking a the gloves alone (not considering any possible set bonuses) then Handwraps of the Aggressor are by far superior to Gauntlets of Malorne.
Grimgrin Faceguard on the other hand is very little below stag-helm of Malorne (with the meta gem).

Ill do some math in the evening...

Edit: next time ill think a bit before writing bs

Here's mine - which is just BT gear.

Teron Gorefiend try

Not stellar, but I wasn't using haste pots and wasn't totally buffed. For that fight, bloodlust triggered 10 times. That was in the melee group though. Usually I get in the hunter group, and I'm lucky to hit 1500 with haste pots.

On your gear - while the Helm of Malorne isn't as good as Grimgrin, and the Gloves aren't as good as the handwraps, they're not such a large downgrade that you will be hurting all that much. Especially with the metagem.

Trading those gloves and helm for T4 gloves/helm would indeed be a *huge* DPS upgrade for you. 2T4 bonus is incredibly powerful, and only worth dropping once you have every single piece of loot from Sunwell that you could want.

Indeed, Helm+Shoulders may be better; that's what Rawr is for. I just meant that any switch to 2T4 will be a huge DPS gain.

And no, when Rawr says it's a 44 dps boost, it means it's a 44 dps boost. That doesn't 'even out' with lower ap/crit, that's already including the ap/crit. And use a powershifting macro, for more DPS.

Wow Web Stats
Managed to do 2180dps on RoS, but wws doesn't have that since the guy was out of the raid for the fight.

1) Without awesome group you can forget about getting 1700+ even with the best gear there is
2) You need to pay a lot of attention to OoC and 2T4 procs to shred when they occur, if you cba then I wouldn't bother with 2T4 once you are at T6+ gear
3) Rawr, Rawr, Rawr :]
4) Practice powershifting

RoS is awesome for big numbers, and timing a 5cp ferobite with trinket during deiden can make even the sadest kitty to smile.

Sadly were not alone to benefit from deiden so when the dust settles were more than often fighting in the lower region of the dpsmeter with shadowpriests anyway.

Dont get to crazy about feraldps in TBC, we just dont have what it takes to be competing against other dps-specs in high end raids(not counting shadowpriests). It´s like playing hockey with one arm and one leg, even tho you know everything about hockey, you got the latest blade and a shiny new hockeystick ducktaped to your one arm you would still not be on par with other players. And even if you would outplay a blind man and a guy in a wheelchair you wont get invited to world cup.

Regarding powershifting, take a look at an addon called "FeralKit". You macro your shred/mangle/rip etc to powershift automatically when youre low on energy. Im pretty sure there´s another thread here that covers everything you need to know about it.

Im quite interested in hearing from people who are still raiding MH/BT/SW. Specifically whether you'll regem your gear come 3.0 to continue tanking at level 70. Currently, im gemmed almost pure agility. With the changes, is it wise to regem to stamina, dodge (cringe) , hit/crit ?

Judging by some posts in the wotlk thread, it sounds like strength might be the best stat for dps gear. Are any of you going to regem your 70 gear at 3.0 for strength?

Rawr will be able to answer that for you, when we get Rawr 2.0 released (sometime pre-3.0, unless they really surprise us with it or something).

BTW, has anyone checked the hit rate of FFF (in bear most importantly, if it matters) in 3.0? Is it still 17% miss rate like spells, or 9% like physical damage now, or what?

I'm pretty sure (although I can't find a source) that spell hit is now 9% on bosses, and there is no longer the 1% guaranteed miss chance. Remember that spell hit = melee hit = hit now too, so with both changes I don't think it matters which of the two it is classified as.

Edit: Been searching for a while and still can't find a source for the 9% spell hit on bosses, so maybe this is just plain wrong. They definitely have removed the 1% guaranteed miss chance though.

Edit2: Just went and checked Org, and there's a boss level dummy there but it's acting as a level 80 boss level dummy (i.e. every hit I do against it is glancing, and fairie fire resists 9/10 times). Could do with someone who has an 80 feral with a decent amount of hit gear (preferably capped) go and check whether they can still get resists against it, and how frequently. Unfortunately there aren't pre-made characters for EU-Beta yet :<

Well, based on quite some posts here on EJ, spell hit cap on bosses is still 17%, but the 1% guaranteed miss chance is gone...

Based on some initial numbers, it seems like we're going back to a sort of "sweet spot" again where we need to balance AP and Agi. There are points where one becomes better than the other, but as you stack it there are points where which one is better flip-flops. In general, strength and agility are close enough that it is still more beneficial to stack agility in case you ever go bear.

Second on dmg on RoS is pretty awesome.

I both like and dislike the role we will be getting in WOTLK. I understand the concept of inviting good players instead of good classes to a raid and im perfectly fine with it. But i cant help to think what we could have been if they gave the feral hybrid playstyle a real chance with encounters that actually benefit a hybrid.

If we had encounters that required or atleast would be easier if you had a feraldruid rooting one mob, tanking three adds, dpsing the boss, charging and tanking a second add, rerooting the first one etc, pretty much like how we play in the arena we wouldnt feel bad for doing very limited dps since we would have a raidspot depending on situational awareness and fast reactions instead of how high we can push on the dpsmeter. I think most feraldruids would be more than happy with that. The big problem with that every single boss would need to have those parts or we would sit out on all the bosses that doesnt require us to be "the hybridguy". It would not mean that you have to have a feraldruid in every raid since it could be solved in other ways but we would still be pretty awesome at getting the job done.

I would say that this cannot be implemented since the druid population have grown alot because of restodruids success in the arena during the last seasons and that we were so powerfull in the beginning of TBC as a feral.

If the druid community would have consisted of mostly old pre-TBC players it would make sense to give the few ferals out there a very unique raidspot depending on skill and a hybrid playstyle thats not competing against anyone else.

I do belive that the new expansion will turn out just fine for us, both as tanks and dps even tho we have to give up being hybrids, a role that never really worked out.

This would be a lot like having a boss that requires a specific ability (Illidan) or a boss that's radically easier with a particular set of abilities (Felmyst, M'uru). As a raid leader I'm glad we're getting away from this model. We're still a hybrid, it's just the level at which we're hybrid that's changing. Respecs are cheap and will likely remain so or get even cheaper. Most of us swap between Feral and Resto now, in WotLK we may swap between Feral (Bear), Feral (Cat) and Resto, possibly even Moonkin. As Ferals, we're hybrid within hybrids. In order to be interchangeable, we need to specialize, but that specialization can be changed with a hearth and a summon. What we really need is bigger bags so we can actually gear for all of these roles.

Ok I have to put this question somewhere. Was looking for a more general thread but since I can't seem to find one, I'll put it here, in my native home ^^

Anyway, today in ZA I've noticed something a bit strange. Both CoW (don't ask me why it was up, we even had 3 healers as it was an alt group so we were taking it nice and easy to grab 3 chests without probs...) and Demoralizing Roar were up at the same time. I first thought it a bug (applied at the same time or something like that), so after it went off, I tried putting it up again, sure enough it went up along with CoW. I called out to our fury warrior to put up Demoralizing Shout, it replaced my Demo Roar as usual, but the CoW was still there next to it.

Am I missing something? Afaik, they don't stack, and just like Demo Roar/Shout overwriting eachother, stronger one staying up, I thought it worked the same with CoW? Does CoW just stay on the side but only one of them is actually doing something? Or did they suddenly change it so you can have both?