Feral Megathread - Page 203

unitsinc · 10/25/08, 1:33 AM

With the recent swipe changes a druid in my guild enchanted his weapon with Battlemaster and began using the Mark of Conquest trinket from Zangarmarsh, along with iLotP. He says that the Battlemaster can proc multiple times per swipe. That combined with iLotP and the trinket seems like it would have enormous potential for massive swipe grinding.

Any thoughts?

Duilliath · 10/25/08, 7:02 AM

That reminds me of the way I leveled in TBC. I used the Darkmoon Card: Heroism as well.
Seems like a very interesting combination.

david0925 · 10/25/08, 7:39 AM

Originally Posted by unitsinc

With the recent swipe changes a druid in my guild enchanted his weapon with Battlemaster and began using the Mark of Conquest trinket from Zangarmarsh, along with iLotP. He says that the Battlemaster can proc multiple times per swipe. That combined with iLotP and the trinket seems like it would have enormous potential for massive swipe grinding.

Any thoughts?

I tested this by pulling the entire stockade and swiping as many target as I can at the same time. I did not get more than 1 BM proc per swipe. I did the trial only 5 runs, but did not see any attempt with more than 1 BM proc per swipe.

In that case, I still don't find it to be a very good enchant.

Melthu · 10/26/08, 11:51 PM

As an update on IW Void Reaver is immune and Hydross is immune while in poison form but not while in frost form.

Carlos · 10/27/08, 2:40 PM

I am not sure if I am lucky or not with an Arms Warrior with trauma in the raid, that overwrites my mangle. I thought about the mangle spam stuff in combination with the arms warrior. Is mangle spam still a valid thing with trauma in the raid? I guess yes.
I tried to find the concrete specc for it but did not find one in this and in the WotLK thread.

I currently run with these talents:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

kalbear · 10/27/08, 3:30 PM

The mangle debuff will be overwritten by trauma, but the effectiveness of mangle was never about the debuff, it was about the fast generation of CP and good damage-energy ratio. That being said, I don't think that it's a viable strategy for good dps, as without savage roar you end up with too short of rips and too many CP to do anything with, and ferocious bite just isn't that good without the extra AP from SR.

Boevis · 10/28/08, 2:43 AM

I'm fairly certain that a 4/4 rotation with 4 seconds of rip downtime beats a 5 rip with extra shreds, especially considering wasted CPs often enough, assuming you only shred on ooc procs, keep rake up, and mangle for CPs.

triman · 11/05/08, 2:42 PM

This thread seems to be sort of dead but looks like the appropriate place for my question. If I might crosspost from the official forums...

My guild is basically trying to finish up the old content before wrath (we got through illidan before the patch) and have just started working on m'uru and we are trying to get him out of p1 before the second wave of adds spawns.

What sort of numbers are other ferals seeing on m'uru? Yesterday I played with a manglespam spec w/ OOC (2pc t4, 2pc t6) and couldn't seem to really break 1650 or thereabouts. This is basically with keeping rake and rip up, using mangle otherwise and then using FB when rip had > 5 seconds left. 1650 is REALLY not all that hot when compared to similarly geared dps classes almost all pushing 2-2.5k. We won't even talk about the hunters and dual glaive warrior up near 3k. Not gonna rant but it seems that while feral dps is up everyone elses is up quite a bit more.

So what gives? My spec? Will moving back to shred/rip/fb based cycle with rend and tear yield better results? My equipment? Its not the best but its not crap either.

So what are other similarly geared ferals seeing on m'uru? DPS and spec would be helpful.

Currently running:

The World of Warcraft Armory

• Astrylian · 11/05/08, 3:32 PM

A) Cat DPS is balanced around having Savage Roar, which we don't get until 75. Cat DPS is terrible compared to everyone else at 70.

B) You should be tanking, most likely. 1 tank on each side, and either 1 tank on sentinel+spawns, or 1 tank on sentinel and 1 on spawns. That's room for 4 tanks. If you're taking 5 tanks to M'uru, I suppose that yes, you're best off DPSing, but that's a poor group makeup.

C) This is the big one. Why are you trying to transition to P2 before the 2nd wave of adds? You should try to transition after the 2nd wave of adds are dead. Or are you trying to just OT the first wave of adds the whole P1, and have everyone burn down M'uru non-stop? I suggest you just go with the standard... Run in, DPS M'uru, DPS adds when they spawn, DPS M'uru when adds are dead, probably hold DPS at 5% or so, DPS adds when they spawn, kill M'uru when adds are dead. Sentinel/Spawn tank will be busy at that point, most likely, so one of the door tanks picks up Entropius.

triman · 11/05/08, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

A) Cat DPS is balanced around having Savage Roar, which we don't get until 75. Cat DPS is terrible compared to everyone else at 70.

B) You should be tanking, most likely. 1 tank on each side, and either 1 tank on sentinel+spawns, or 1 tank on sentinel and 1 on spawns. That's room for 4 tanks. If you're taking 5 tanks to M'uru, I suppose that yes, you're best off DPSing, but that's a poor group makeup.

C) This is the big one. Why are you trying to transition to P2 before the 2nd wave of adds? You should try to transition after the 2nd wave of adds are dead. Or are you trying to just OT the first wave of adds the whole P1, and have everyone burn down M'uru non-stop? I suggest you just go with the standard... Run in, DPS M'uru, DPS adds when they spawn, DPS M'uru when adds are dead, probably hold DPS at 5% or so, DPS adds when they spawn, kill M'uru when adds are dead. Sentinel/Spawn tank will be busy at that point, most likely, so one of the door tanks picks up Entropius.

a. Yup

b. Yesterday was our first time there and we tried using 3 tanks. one for each set of adds (one war and one feral) and one for the sentinel (pally). I'm not sure what other adds there are? Yesterday we got about 6 tries in so still getting a feel for it.

c. I think we are trying to do this because we think we can and it makes the fight a lot more simple. Yes...everyone is burning m'uru as fast as possible (heroism on right away and all ranged stay on m'uru after melee move out). We were just a few seconds too late a few times so it should be doable. But it in order to make it doable our overall dps has to slightly improve and I'm one of the ones near the bottom of the meters.

Now I'm thinking I should put berserk into my dps spec for this fight. Sustained dps would be lower but I could put out much more dps for the first 30 seconds. But does 1650dps sounds about right?

• Astrylian · 11/05/08, 4:28 PM

When the Sentinels die, they turn into 8(?) babies, Void Spawns.

1650 dps is still kind of low, I expect you should be able to reach 2000 as a cat by that progression, but I see much of your gear is shared between cat and bear. If you can swing 2T4+4T6 and all DPS enchanted, that'd be a significant improvement I think. I'm not sure on the relative performance of Mangle Spam to Shred at 70, but I think that especially with Berserk, you could do significantly more damage with a shred spec, as far as this burst situation goes.

triman · 11/05/08, 4:52 PM

Ah ok...our goal was to just OT the sentinel the entire time without killing it. My gear isn't up to snuff progression wise because the nerfed content means we haven't had all that many kills on prior SWP bosses (we just got twins down for the first time last night). Same goes for the rest of the guild although their dps relatively shot through the roof.

I'm going to try a more pure dps spec and switch in berserk in place of OOC and hopefully that'll gain me a few hundred dps that matter. Thanks for your input.

smprfidels · 11/05/08, 5:26 PM

I am trying to figure out a beginning dps raiding rotation for my new 70 feral druid. I have read through a significant portion of this thread, and the other one on the talents and abilities, but most of the information giving is for having 2pt4 or more gear which i don't have yet. my attack power is only around 2000.

I get the impression that shred isn't efficient enough to use unless you have a lot of attack power. I think i want something like what Boevis recomended, but with my lower gear and stats i am not sure.

Originally Posted by Boevis

Lacking SR, what kind of rotation are we using at 70?
-Keep Rake up
-Keep Mangle up (not needed with a Trauma Arms Warrior?)
-TF every cooldown if energy < 40
-Use FB if at 5 CPs and Rip will not expire before 100 energy (with glyph of rip making that 16 sec this means it's likely to be a 5/5 rotation with Rip down for ~8 seconds)
-Lacerate? still bad

Can anyone let me know if there is something i should be doing differently until i get some better gear? We are going to Kara tonight and I would like to try to pull as much of my own weight as possible.

• Astrylian · 11/05/08, 7:23 PM

Actually, quite the opposite. Mangle spam is only viable when you have 2T6. You'll want to fully talent Shred, and use a rotation including Shred... Keep Rake up, keep Mangle up, Shred for combo points, and keep Rip up. It's doubtful at that gear level that you'll have many combo points to spare, so using FB much is probably out of the question. That should be it, just maintain Rake, Mangle, and Rip on the target, Shred in between those.

Zidders · 11/07/08, 1:26 AM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Actually, quite the opposite. Mangle spam is only viable when you have 2T6. You'll want to fully talent Shred, and use a rotation including Shred... Keep Rake up, keep Mangle up, Shred for combo points, and keep Rip up. It's doubtful at that gear level that you'll have many combo points to spare, so using FB much is probably out of the question. That should be it, just maintain Rake, Mangle, and Rip on the target, Shred in between those.

I've been playing around with DPS rotation tonight. Feral is mostly my offspec, but i'm sitting at 8\8 T6 with the twins staff. Mind you, i'm specced 56-5 for pvp fun but using a 5p rip, 5p fero bite combo with keeping mangle and rake up i've only been hovering around 1400 DPS, spiking over 2600 (<3 fero bite) So using Fero bite isn't completely out of the question at 70.

• Astrylian · 11/07/08, 1:37 AM

Originally Posted by smprfidels

... having 2pt4 or more gear which i don't have yet. my attack power is only around 2000....

Originally Posted by Zidders

...i'm sitting at 8\8 T6 with the twins staff...

Something tells me you being able to maintain 5FB+5Rip doesn't mean he will be able to...

• Daboran · 11/07/08, 6:26 AM

Originally Posted by triman

Ah ok...our goal was to just OT the sentinel the entire time without killing it. My gear isn't up to snuff progression wise because the nerfed content means we haven't had all that many kills on prior SWP bosses (we just got twins down for the first time last night). Same goes for the rest of the guild although their dps relatively shot through the roof.

I'm going to try a more pure dps spec and switch in berserk in place of OOC and hopefully that'll gain me a few hundred dps that matter. Thanks for your input.

To be honest, with some good gear choices and gemming, you don't need to have lots of mid-late Sunwell T6 to be great at Muru add tanking. Slightly curious why you are trying to force Muru into a kill after 2 waves? With the nerfs there's no reason you shouldnt be able to maintain phase 1 indefinitely if needs be.

With Druids now crit immune from talents, you can tank Muru yourself if need be and still be wearing optimal add-tank gear. We changed our strat completely now and have 2 Warriors tanking Void Sentinels (alternating spawns), with myself and another Warrior on the adds. We wait until Muru is on 2-3% and I have a pack of adds, kill 2 of the adds, ranged dps kill Muru while my last add goes down then I go and pick up Muru myself, pop Beserk and go mental for threat. Everyone else finishes off the remaining Void Sentinel then nukes the boss, by which time I'm so far ahead on threat that it's a complete non-issue. Doing it this way there is no danger of a new VS spawning because you mistimed the Muru kill.

Thessaly · 11/08/08, 12:47 AM

Anyone noticed any issues with Feral Charge - Cat? I've noticed it does some weird repositioning after you actually land, presumably to reorient you towards their back, but I've had it turn me away from people, move me out of range of them, and other little oddities. It was most pronounced when I was trying to run past a group of guards, had Dash on, and Feral Charged the furthest one. I was able to keep running for about 5-10 yards before it ported me back to the guard. I've asked some Rogues if they've seen similar behavior with Shadowstep, and they don't seem to.

Huggme · 11/11/08, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Thessaly

Anyone noticed any issues with Feral Charge - Cat? I've noticed it does some weird repositioning after you actually land, presumably to reorient you towards their back, but I've had it turn me away from people, move me out of range of them, and other little oddities. It was most pronounced when I was trying to run past a group of guards, had Dash on, and Feral Charged the furthest one. I was able to keep running for about 5-10 yards before it ported me back to the guard. I've asked some Rogues if they've seen similar behavior with Shadowstep, and they don't seem to.

Yeah, noticed the same stupid behaviour, preventing us from opening on target running on a mount unless you use dash after land and/or are lucky. The most annoying part is the repositioning which tends to port us back as you stated and makes me /wrist every time I try to chase someone down.

Could be worth a shot asking blues if this "works as intended".

dukes · 11/11/08, 1:10 PM

Originally Posted by Huggme

Yeah, noticed the same stupid behaviour, preventing us from opening on target running on a mount unless you use dash after land and/or are lucky. The most annoying part is the repositioning which tends to port us back as you stated and makes me /wrist every time I try to chase someone down.

Could be worth a shot asking blues if this "works as intended".

If you've ever played a warrior and tried to charge/intercept someone while slowed or they're on a mount, you get the same issue. It's trying to get to someone who is moving at a different speed, while you have a travel time, which is problematic to say the least, and when you include the client side / server side interaction it makes it worse. Intercept works sometimes due to the stun, and Bear charge works well because of the immobilise, but due to Charge only having a 1 second stun / Cat charge only having a daze, it doesn't work so well on those abilities.

Huggme · 11/11/08, 3:43 PM

Originally Posted by dukes

If you've ever played a warrior and tried to charge/intercept someone while slowed or they're on a mount, you get the same issue. It's trying to get to someone who is moving at a different speed, while you have a travel time, which is problematic to say the least, and when you include the client side / server side interaction it makes it worse. Intercept works sometimes due to the stun, and Bear charge works well because of the immobilise, but due to Charge only having a 1 second stun / Cat charge only having a daze, it doesn't work so well on those abilities.

Exactly. What I tend to do to diminish this behaviour is I unstealth prior to cat charge and usually manage to mangle for IW to slow the runner. Not optimal but gotta do what works the best.

There might be better ways of stopping a mount runner but I can't think of any that wouldn't require a) unstealth b) shifting out of cat.

Maybe it would have been better if cat charge haven't ported us behind target so that we would get a few yards advantage to manage an opener if we were charging from the direction the target is running towards. This obviously wouldn't help if we were behind the target, but better than nothing (and it might reduce the teleport - back issue I would imagine)

Please share if I have missed something crucial and/or failed to adapt to mechanics of cat charge. I'll be glad to extend my knowledge.

Thessaly · 11/11/08, 9:42 PM

Originally Posted by Huggme

Exactly. What I tend to do to diminish this behaviour is I unstealth prior to cat charge and usually manage to mangle for IW to slow the runner. Not optimal but gotta do what works the best.

There might be better ways of stopping a mount runner but I can't think of any that wouldn't require a) unstealth b) shifting out of cat.

Maybe it would have been better if cat charge haven't ported us behind target so that we would get a few yards advantage to manage an opener if we were charging from the direction the target is running towards. This obviously wouldn't help if we were behind the target, but better than nothing (and it might reduce the teleport - back issue I would imagine)

Please share if I have missed something crucial and/or failed to adapt to mechanics of cat charge. I'll be glad to extend my knowledge.

Yeah, I don't mind playing catch up with a moving target, that's the same as Charge (loving Warbringer) or Intervene, but I think Feral Charge Cat works off the same mechanics as Shadowstep, in that it attempts to position you behind the target. The delay of this repositioning is really where the problem is, since it seems that sometimes it positions where the target's back was when you started, regardless of where they might be when you land or when the repositioning actually occurs. Either way, the behavior seems a bit inconsistent. That and locking out the Bear version for 30 seconds makes it more of a novelty than anything of use. I really don't understand the lockout, especially given that Warriors now have Charge breaking snares while giving rage, potentially on a 12 second cooldown.

Ja7us · 11/11/08, 11:57 PM

For sure. Cat charge seems to be extremely buggy overall. The aforementioned reposition-one-second-later is annoying as hell, and I've occasionally (it's happened four times so far, definitely not a fluke) seen every mob and player near me phase out and become invisible for ~5 seconds directly after a charge (I was still attackable, as well). At this point I'd give anything to make it simply "charge to the target" rather than "attempt to leap behind the target." If the 3-second daze were a 1-2 second immobilize, I think that would go a long way toward making it reliably bring you to the target, as well.