IIRC from the Omen/Threat threads, Lacerate is either 260 or 280 flat threat, plus the tick threat? i.e. it's usually higher than Swipe in Feral tanking gear.

Lacerate's innate threat is 285. It gets only 20% of its damage as threat. Swipe gets all of its damage as threat, so deals slightly less threat when it doesn't crit, and over twice as much threat when it does crit.

I'm pretty sure for any raid DPS situation we concluded that you don't want to be using Everbloom or Terror anyway and that the post-buff Raven Goddess was better.

I'd actually totally forgotten about that Idol. However, I'm usually grouped with a Resto Shaman, Shadow Priest, 2 BM Hunters and myself. I can see this Idol being great in a full on melee group, but would it be worth it for just 2 Hunters?

Call me crazy, but I found where I was led to believe that lacerate innate threat doubles on crit:

The Omen thread (post 1437) from back in the day has someone testing threat and reporting that its threat doubles on a crit.

He repeats that statement here in the lacerate measuring thread.

In both cases his claim is met with skepticism, but never countered with evidence/certainty that crit threat doubling wasn't the case.

Thanks for the reply vaccine, I had never seen a DPS report with a feral druid before, so i didn't know if i was over/underperforming as with my hunter i can get 1500 with one button no problems ^_^

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Should swipe only be thought about after 4T6 ? And until then just use the Mangle,Lac,Lac,Lac,Mangle(with a few mauls in there too) ?

So it's been some time since I posted for input and I learned a ton and have improved a lot since then. New short batch of questions

My raid charter is starting to look at steps past Gruul and Mags and debating SSC or TK. I don't have an opinion, I'm trying to read up on how I can prepare to be feral in either one, and there's not a lot out there.

I'm standard feral OT/dps. I can MT but I give greater raid utility as the role shifter. Last week I was dps'ing and shifted to bear to take Kiggler when the hunters went down, and tanked 3rd channeler in mixed cat/bear gear. Armory is here, showing my dual role enchanted 4t4 and Shadowprowler's.

I've been plugging away at the "get some badge gear, get the S3 head to go with my S3 chest, get some BG bracers" plugging away, and it looks like resist gear is my primary need for upcoming fights in raid instances. Am I focusing on the wrong sort of upgrades? Should I be scrounging/faking some nature/frost resist or start gemming the enchanted clefthoof set I have vaulted? Which next raid can I be more useful for, or more useful faster?

I was fiddling with Rawr to try and answer some of these questions, and it kicked out some interesting things. After I ran optimizer it told me to stick solid stars in every socket in sight for my bear gear, though that dropped my dodge to 29%, and my dodge isn't as high as I'd like now. Is that a bug or a feature of Rawr? Or is it optimizing based on needing 9.2 million hp to withstand even a glare from Brutallus?

Rawr also suggested Idol of Feral Shadows as a dps trinket, which surprised me. I run Idol of Terror, have been vacillating on whether to spend my small badge stash on Everbloom. Now I get a recommend from Rawr on Feral Shadows and I see in this thread that Raven Goddess is also recommended for raid dps if you're with hunters and rogues and such. Which?

Is it just me or are ferals being pushed to be leatherworkers? One thing that triggered my thought that way is when I was looking for an upgrade to heavy clefthoof boots, you have to be LW or you're screwed for quite a while. I'm skinning herbing right now, is it worth it with the upcoming content and futre projections to get LW up and drop herb?

Any feedback? The question list looks long, but I store questions up for a month or more at a time And the answers to some of my earlier questions moved my cat dps up on gruul's lair fights as much as 80dps for the improved efficiency.

This guy isn't just my main, he's my first char and first 70, so he still has his gathering from when he leveled, though I've debated dropping one or both many times. Herbing with epic flight form is still a lot of fun when moneyfarming.

And I was told when I started that LW was a huge time and gold sink without much to recommend it, apparently it's gotten a lot stronger since 2.3 and 2.4. Will have to look into how much hassle it is to skill up LW to high level, apparently I'll need it moving forward.

For my gear in bear form (forgot to log out in it last night) I went to warcrafter.net and created/updated my eq set, this should be the Link here.

With only paw I'm at 15,900, basic raid buffs I sit at 19,300.

I'd love to run that many instances, but domestic aggro forces me to play minimally, wife and small children. I have 80 badges stashed and am working my way through Rawr to determine Band of Swift Paw, Everbloom, a cat ring, or save up a little while longer. Multiple solid-to-good upgrades versus one Oh-Dear-Lord upgrade I guess. I raid once a week and instance maybe twice a week, dailies and alts are the rest of my minimal time.

On resist gear, I've seen a guy who took his retired clefthoof set and fully re-gemmed with resist all gems and resist armor patches except legs. Viable?

For resist gear, I find it's much easier to retain uncrittable by using a 2-piece gladiator bonus (S3 if it's available), the vindicator's bracers, and a ring and using AH greens in every other slot imagineable. It'll probably end up being cheaper than all the Void Spheres and you'll have a higher resist when you're done. Also find a LW and put Frost/Nature armor kits on everything you can. If you keep what it takes to crit-cap down to 4 pieces or so, you can get resist capped as well using only greens and the epic resist ring. You'll be losing a lot of dodge, but the stamina that comes on every resist piece will keep you just under your normal health total (I'm somewhere around 18k buffed in my Hydross frost set).

Unless you're actually doing the Hydross tanking, I'd recommend against getting resist gear. I've tanked the adds several times without it and had no resist gear at all. It worked fine. The adds die before the mark of hydross becomes a problem anyway, and you can soak the damage without too much of a problem. If you're regularly tanking 3, then you might want to. Otherwise, don't bother.

I'm not a fan of leatherworking; leatherworking essentially provides one thing that isn't replacable via other options, the drums. If you need that for a raid that's fine, but it's not worth it otherwise. If you're looking for a boot upgrade one option other than the badge boots is the vindicator's set. They're great, add resilience and have good overall stats.

Feral shadows is the best DPS badge when dealing with high-armor targets or when you mangle infrequently. If you do mangle frequently, terror is best. I also think that the raven goddess is good for stacking max threat but terror is overall better for the raid as it gives avoidance.

I have a slight improvement on the bear pot macro that I have found pretty useful:

In MultiBarLeftButton1 I drop the kitchen sink:
Then for each form I have a macro like:
This lets you get just about everything in there