Feral Megathread - Page 285

monster · 06/26/08, 9:33 PM

Originally Posted by Taurela

What kind of tanking rotations do you use for M'uru adds, assuming that you're tanking all 3 and the mage isn't going to be cc'd. What we do is kill the mage, I mark a beserker, that is killed after the mage, then the unmarked beserker is killed.

I tank ramp side and I've been starting with a white hit on the mage, then a swipe on all 3. Swipe again, mark one of the beserkers, maul it, swipe, mangle the mage, swipe, tab to the unmarked beserker, maul it, swipe, maul the mage, swipe, maul the marked add, swipe, mangle the unmarked add, swipe, etc.

I'm admittedly a bit undergeared for this and have been struggling to build enough threat with blade flurry rogues/sweeping strikes/whirlwinding warrior.

What I use for gear is:

T6 helm with 15 stam socket, 18 stam w/ stun resist meta, 18 stam / 20 resil enchant.
Brooch of Deftness
T6 shoulders with 15 stam sockets, 15 defense/10 dodge enchant
Slikk's cloak of placation with 12 agi.
T6 chest w/ 15 stam all sockets, +6 all stats enchant
Vindicator's dragonhide bracers with 15 stam socket, 12 stam enchant
T6 gloves w/ 15 stam socket, 15 agi enchant
Belt of natural power w/ 15 stam all sockets
T6 pants w/ 15 stam socket, 40 stam + 12 agi enchant
Treads of the Den mother w/ 12 stam enchant
Band of the Abyssal Lord
Ring of Stalwart protector
Guardian alchemist's stone (wtb shadowmoon insignia

)
Commendation of Kael'thas

Pillar of Ferocity / Idol of Terror

I have a 2nd T6 helm I can sub in, as well as T6 belt. I don't have the twins' staff or T6 bracers yet, or any offset Sunwell loot.

With this my unbuffed hp in bear is 20679, 31710 armor, 35% dodge, 2316 ap, 29.47% crit.

What kind of gear substitutions should I make that are available to me? Can I improve my tanking rotation?

Thanks.

The adds are all about dodge, re-gem or get another t6 set with pure agi gems, and even go with the meta gem with +12 agi, trust me on this. I wouldn't tank this unless I had 55-56% dodge in bear form unbuffed. Also, I just got my staff from Twins, and I'll be using that to tank for threat/agi and I don't mind losing the armor for it.

david0925 · 06/26/08, 11:17 PM

We do Zerk>Mage>zerk killing order. For M'uru, I generally build aggro on first aggro target going all out until he reaches 50%, then switch off and mangle+ maul x3 the Mage, then build max aggro on the second berserker

If we were to do Mage>Zerk>zerk (which a lot of guilds do), I would build aggro on mage until 80% and then switch off, and then build threat on one of the zerkers and then switch off as needed.

In general you should have an idea by the good attempts (after losing to him 2340408024 attempts) how much your DPs can do before he pulls aggro, so you just need to build enough aggro so that the DPS can't reach that threat point before the mob dies.

angi · 06/27/08, 1:25 AM

Originally Posted by Falk

You can't shock an instant fireball. Obviously if any of the casttimed ones get through, the melee group fails. :P

We have fast mages, and in case of resists the melee shaman purges

. I do get fireballs, perhaps one from every wave, but it doesn`t kill me.

For threat, we start with mage first and i go all out doing mangle/maul/swipe. The trick is that the rogues and warriors start bombing when the mage is down and i simply switch to the first berserker when the mage is at 40%. After one mangle/maul i switch to the next one. At that point i have approx 11-12k threat on the Berserkers, thats enough to start bombing.

Falk · 06/27/08, 2:35 AM

Originally Posted by david0925

so you just need to build enough aggro so that the DPS can't reach that threat point before the mob dies.

25k should be fine. If one DPSer is outperforming the others so much that he pulls aggro from 25k, chances are you aren't killing the adds in time anyway.

Midnight · 06/27/08, 5:44 AM

Originally Posted by angi

I am now very comfortable with my muru tanking set, i have 84% dodge+miss according to wws and around 17k HP. I can be solo healed by a single resto shaman who is casting chainheal on me.
(...)

Could you link that wws please? I did some comparisons between our druids first (and so far only) M'uru tries and some other wws to see in actual numbers just how much diffrence avoidance makes.

Oh and while I´m at it - I realized there was quite some diffrence in average damage per hit taken from the berserkers too. While one of our druids took an average of 913 damage per hit most other "good" example druid tanks took about 600 damage per hit on average. Now considering our druid had armor capped (I´m sure he did as he stated he used his normal tank gear on our first tries) and used demo roar what else is there that´d explain such a big diffrence? I think the sample size of 171 hits is big enough to assume this wasn´t all just bad luck.

Negoveio · 06/27/08, 6:05 AM

maybe it was a pally healing your tank, so he didn't got any +25% armor proc from heals?

Midnight · 06/27/08, 6:15 AM

Originally Posted by Negoveio

maybe it was a pally healing your tank, so he didn't got any +25% armor proc from heals?

Even if it was - as I said he´s armor capped anyway tanking in default tank gear so it shouldn´t make any diffrence.

angi · 06/27/08, 6:50 AM

Originally Posted by Midnight

Could you link that wws please? I did some comparisons between our druids first (and so far only) M'uru tries and some other wws to see in actual numbers just how much diffrence avoidance makes.

Oh and while I´m at it - I realized there was quite some diffrence in average damage per hit taken from the berserkers too. While one of our druids took an average of 913 damage per hit most other "good" example druid tanks took about 600 damage per hit on average. Now considering our druid had armor capped (I´m sure he did as he stated he used his normal tank gear on our first tries) and used demo roar what else is there that´d explain such a big diffrence? I think the sample size of 171 hits is big enough to assume this wasn´t all just bad luck.

wws

Its from last week we are currently working on P1-P2 transitions.

Coldturkey · 06/27/08, 8:07 AM

Originally Posted by Midnight

Could you link that wws please? I did some comparisons between our druids first (and so far only) M'uru tries and some other wws to see in actual numbers just how much diffrence avoidance makes.

Oh and while I´m at it - I realized there was quite some diffrence in average damage per hit taken from the berserkers too. While one of our druids took an average of 913 damage per hit most other "good" example druid tanks took about 600 damage per hit on average. Now considering our druid had armor capped (I´m sure he did as he stated he used his normal tank gear on our first tries) and used demo roar what else is there that´d explain such a big diffrence? I think the sample size of 171 hits is big enough to assume this wasn´t all just bad luck.

I took an average of 700 damage from berzerkers as per Wow Web Stats but there are many reasons why average damage might be higher. Is your druid bashing the berzerkers during the flurry? Are the rogue(s) stunning during flurry?(if not they would have a much higher flurry up time) Do you have a warrior on his side with Imp Demo shout? My side is usually enhancement shaman, rogue, fury warrior (with imp demo and doing TC), and either another rogue or bm hunter. I've been healed by a paladin and shaman bouncing chain heals or a priest and a shaman and haven't been bursted down since the first week of attempts.

As for tanking, i usually start off by tabbing into the first mob that enters through the invisible wall and swiping until all 3 mobs pass through. They have some awful pathing and sometimes go back through the door and/or immediately ignore your initial attacks and dart off and then snap back. I find it really useful to have a frost trap or earthbind totem up to slow them initially. Dps is usually safe to go in once the mobs stop moving and i dont really tank the mage. At the beginning i'll throw a maul/mangle and then turn to our marked zerker and begin building threat on it while swiping the other 2. Growl tanking the mage is probably the best thing to do so your dps can aoe on the last 2 zerkers. If you find your mage killing people with fireballs you can tab bash it in between growl cooldowns but it shouldn't be a big deal if you have a rogue stun tanking it.

Originally Posted by angi

wws

Its from last week we are currently working on P1-P2 transitions.

edited: What debuffs are on them? How much dodge/miss do you have? 389 is substaintailly lower than my average damage taken.

angi · 06/27/08, 8:56 AM

Originally Posted by Coldturkey

edited: What debuffs are on them? How much dodge/miss do you have? 389 is substaintailly lower than my average damage taken.

As i posted above 84% dodge+miss, debuffs are sometimes tc+demo but most of the time they are undebuffed.

monster · 06/27/08, 9:06 AM

I am currently in my M'uru tank set, and while I am low on armor and with a small HP pool, I still feel pretty safe because I don't recall getting spiked to death besides one attempt, where I missed an add and I went chasing it while I got dazed from other and it hit me 5-6 times in a row in the back, and I didn't dodge a single swing.

I am sitting around close to 74% dodge with raid buffs plus grace of air, since I do have an enhancement shaman in our melee group (Yes!!), along with that I am keeping up mangle every time it's up so the idol procs, too.

Another thing I noticed was with this gear, I have a lot of aglitliy, and a good amount of hit so threat really hasn't been an issue. I had a few string of big crits of maul/mangles where I would spike to 1.9k-2k TPS on omen, and we've been killing adds pretty fast without any aggro problems and I think we have good 3-4 seconds before the next wave spawns. Proper drum rotation helps here a lot with the melee group you are running.

Midnight · 06/27/08, 10:16 AM

Flurry: "Attack speed increased by 100%. Movement speed increased by 100%."
Correct me if I´m wrong but if flurry only increases attack and movement speed it shouldn´t affect how much damage the berserker does per hit. So even though it´s recommended to bash or otherwise stun them during flurry it shouldn´t impact on the average damage per hit. With Angi taking even less damage per hit (446 using the standard 2.4 renderer) I´m starting to wonder if wws considers dodges and misses as 0 damage hits in its calculations...

RoboStac · 06/27/08, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Midnight

Flurry: "Attack speed increased by 100%. Movement speed increased by 100%."
Correct me if I´m wrong but if flurry only increases attack and movement speed it shouldn´t affect how much damage the berserker does per hit. So even though it´s recommended to bash or otherwise stun them during flurry it shouldn´t impact on the average damage per hit. With Angi taking even less damage per hit (446 using the standard 2.4 renderer) I´m starting to wonder if wws considers dodges and misses as 0 damage hits in its calculations...

It does. If you check the first tab, angi only takes 147 physical hits (total), but the breakdown has the beserker average calculated off over 800 hits.

Midnight · 06/27/08, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by RoboStac

It does. If you check the first tab, angi only takes 147 physical hits (total), but the breakdown has the beserker average calculated off over 800 hits.

Ok this explains the low average damage per hit even though I think it´s kind of unintuative to calculate it this way. I guess the max hit is a much better indicator for pure mitigation than.

monster · 06/27/08, 11:27 AM

A few of my WWS, I am quite happy with my dodge right now.

Wow Web Stats - 82%
Wow Web Stats - 81%