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Old 06/27/08, 11:35 AM   #4276
Mezoth
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
Looking over the WWS reports posted in this thread about M'uru, it seems that having the higher dodge/miss (80%+ after buffs) is really really key for tanking the side adds. Angi's gearset shows him with 80-84% dodge/miss on his attempts, and taking far less damage then Phrozty (Coldturkey). If you look at the mid/max incoming physical damage they take, there is only a ~300hp difference in the actual hits they take. This seems to seal the deal for me, and I will be gemming/enchanting and picking up gear to hit that ~80% dodge/miss rate. Currently my healers are very annoyed at how hard it is to keep me up during tanking the adds if we do not use a sheep, and I have been showing ~65% dodge/miss rate on our WWS of the attempts.

My real question is: does anybody know how accurate the Rawr numbers are for calculating dodge/miss %? I have been using it to evaluate my gear alternatives (as I am primarily resto, while I have 7/8 t6 feral I am missing any of the BT/Hyjal jewelry.) The gear list provided by Angi has also been invaluable to me in considering alternatives.

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Old 06/27/08, 1:04 PM   #4277
sal
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Azgalor
Originally Posted by Taurela View Post
What kind of tanking rotations do you use for M'uru adds, assuming that you're tanking all 3 and the mage isn't going to be cc'd. What we do is kill the mage, I mark a beserker, that is killed after the mage, then the unmarked beserker is killed.

I tank ramp side and I've been starting with a white hit on the mage, then a swipe on all 3. Swipe again, mark one of the beserkers, maul it, swipe, mangle the mage, swipe, tab to the unmarked beserker, maul it, swipe, maul the mage, swipe, maul the marked add, swipe, mangle the unmarked add, swipe, etc.

I'm admittedly a bit undergeared for this and have been struggling to build enough threat with blade flurry rogues/sweeping strikes/whirlwinding warrior.

What I use for gear is:

T6 helm with 15 stam socket, 18 stam w/ stun resist meta, 18 stam / 20 resil enchant.
Brooch of Deftness
T6 shoulders with 15 stam sockets, 15 defense/10 dodge enchant
Slikk's cloak of placation with 12 agi.
T6 chest w/ 15 stam all sockets, +6 all stats enchant
Vindicator's dragonhide bracers with 15 stam socket, 12 stam enchant
T6 gloves w/ 15 stam socket, 15 agi enchant
Belt of natural power w/ 15 stam all sockets
T6 pants w/ 15 stam socket, 40 stam + 12 agi enchant
Treads of the Den mother w/ 12 stam enchant
Band of the Abyssal Lord
Ring of Stalwart protector
Guardian alchemist's stone (wtb shadowmoon insignia )
Commendation of Kael'thas

Pillar of Ferocity / Idol of Terror

I have a 2nd T6 helm I can sub in, as well as T6 belt. I don't have the twins' staff or T6 bracers yet, or any offset Sunwell loot.

With this my unbuffed hp in bear is 20679, 31710 armor, 35% dodge, 2316 ap, 29.47% crit.

What kind of gear substitutions should I make that are available to me? Can I improve my tanking rotation?

Thanks.
you have lots of armor in this setup from what I see.

substitutions:

head: T5/PvP/illidan/zlu'jin helm with agi gems, consider defense to bracers and the defense head enchant in main set
neck: badge (agi), JC crafted, reliquery/brut neck
shoulder: T5 agi gems (if you have one stored)
chest: supremus chest with avoidance gemming might be better, defense enchant
bracer: T6, defense enchant
gloves: crafted dusk gloves (if you have the sunmotes/recipe)
belt: badge belt (2 agi gems), T6
pants: badge pants most likely have higher avoidance, lack hit though, big investment though
boots: badge boots, 12 agi chant, agi gems, second yellow for agi meta activation

ring1: LC exalted, ZA chest 3, hyjal exalted, revenge badge ring, JC crafted ring (low threat)
trinkets: SMI, moroes trinket
Weapon: badge staff may be better (threat), SSC trash stave (avoidance)

I highly advise alternative enchants, agi boots, defense helm, defense bracer, (defense chest is slightly better avoidance if you can fit it somewhere). Be advised the cap is 133 defense rating as opposed to 154


EDIT: Wow, Taurela posted the exact same question as me right after I started writing my post. You guys can ignore this one if you like

Since we're talking about tanking M'uru adds, I figured I'd ask: How do you guys effectively hold aggro over multiple targets that are all taking DPS simultaneously (including stuff other than M'uru adds)? I've read that you want your rogues to be blade flurrying, warriors to be cleaving/sweeping, etc on M'uru adds... and I know from experience that swipe spamming is just not going to cut it on the second and third mobs. So, what kind of rotation to do you use to get a few direct attacks off on your secondary (and tertiary) tank targets while not losing aggro on your primary target?

I've been fortunate (unfortunate?) enough to have a prot pally in every AOE-fest raid (read Hyjal trash), so it hasn't come down to me going all out TPS on more than one target. I've gotten some practice for fun by pulling 2 aboms out of the consecrate and alternating mangles while swipe spamming, but I'm not sure I was doing it well enough that I'd be able to hold multiple targets off of the melee attackers hitting more than one target at a time.
I have tanked against two hunters, two mages; two hunters, two warlocks; melee groups with a rogue, warrior, ret paladin, enhance shaman mix. Warlocks curse off-targets, mages sheep after 5ish seconds of building threat on the three, rogues flurry, warriors cleave, shaman/retadin do considerable single-target threat.

I have had every class pull and die from main and off-targets. All I suggest is you and melee monitor threat via omen on all targets, after some time everyone will get comfortable enough. Max tps is hitting the berserkers, have others lockdown/rip the mage, taunt. Mangle/maul (whatever offtarget needs more threat), swipe x3. All you can do is consider what pieces can double as avoidance/threat/hit gear.

I have logged in my avoidance set (19ishk hp ~70% avoidance wet), no piece is used only for door tanking, everything is dual purpose. Tested the JC / brut rings but unhappy with the tps/avoidance balance, waiting for reliquery neck, wish I kept my T5 shoulders for avoidance gems.

edit - (i'm a fool that pops everything before logging)


question:

how can I find a WWS parse of my attempts? Do I use the program myself and review, or is there an easy method to review submitted. If I use the program for my own records, how does this affect game performance?

what % uptime do people have on their agi idol using mangle every cooldown?

Last edited by sal : 06/27/08 at 1:16 PM.


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Old 06/27/08, 2:11 PM   #4278
monster
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by sal View Post

question:

how can I find a WWS parse of my attempts? Do I use the program myself and review, or is there an easy method to review submitted. If I use the program for my own records, how does this affect game performance?

what % uptime do people have on their agi idol using mangle every cooldown?
You have to clear out your combat-log first and record it by /combatlog command I think, and once you are done with your raid, you pretty much upload the log on WWS website, it's pretty simple. Just read up on it, it's not that hard to do. This doesn't cause any lag or any issues that cause game lag, so don't worry about that.

As for the mangle idol, it has around 85% chance to proc, so you should be spamming mangle every time it's up while tanking these adds for the dodge/threat.

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Old 06/27/08, 2:55 PM   #4279
coredumperror
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Druid
 
<SiN>
Vek'nilash
Originally Posted by monster View Post
As for the mangle idol, it has around 85% chance to proc, so you should be spamming mangle every time it's up while tanking these adds for the dodge/threat.
85% chance to proc, but a 10-sec internal CD. That means that at best, you'll only be able to re-apply it 85% of the time after it's been down for 2-sec since it's last proc. I remember reading that you'll get something like 50-60% avg uptime if you mangle every CD.

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Old 06/27/08, 3:02 PM   #4280
angi
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kil'Jaeden (EU)
Originally Posted by Mezoth View Post
My real question is: does anybody know how accurate the Rawr numbers are for calculating dodge/miss %? I have been using it to evaluate my gear alternatives (as I am primarily resto, while I have 7/8 t6 feral I am missing any of the BT/Hyjal jewelry.) The gear list provided by Angi has also been invaluable to me in considering alternatives.
Rawr is accurate in this, i have 84% dodge+miss according to it.

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Old 06/27/08, 3:47 PM   #4281
ornery
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
The Underbog
Originally Posted by Mezoth View Post
My real question is: does anybody know how accurate the Rawr numbers are for calculating dodge/miss %? I have been using it to evaluate my gear alternatives (as I am primarily resto, while I have 7/8 t6 feral I am missing any of the BT/Hyjal jewelry.) The gear list provided by Angi has also been invaluable to me in considering alternatives.
Rawr has always been 100% accurate for me, both in bear and cat calculations; I used to question it's accuracy (specifically in the constants that it uses based on threat and survivability, but how can you rank this in the scheme of things anyways), but I realized all the features Rawr has and more about the buff/drum uptime settings, boss armor, and all those settings.

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Old 06/27/08, 4:07 PM   #4282
Bashui
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Thunderhorn
The threat values for bear are still broken, but shoudl be much improved in the next release. Also, many of the numbers won't match your character sheet (because your character sheet assumes a level 70 opponent). Keep in mind though, that the opponent rawr is simulating is kind of generic, and armor and level are pretty much the only configurable items right now.

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Old 06/27/08, 4:42 PM   #4283
Mezoth
Piston Honda
 
No Account
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
Yeah, the main things I was looking for were the dodge/miss% numbers. With only ~50% uptime on the idol, my dodge/miss should clock in with my gear (while fully buffed) at about 79%. Without the shadowmoon insignia, I am not sure how I can push it higher right now.

The gear I am looking at using:

Thunderheart Cover (8agi/agi meta gem) (17dodge/16def enchant)
Necklace of the Juggernaut
Merciless Gladiator's Dragonhide Spaulders (8 agi/4agi-4hit gems) (15 dodge/10def enchant)
Thunderheart Chestguard (15stam/7stam-5resil/8agi gems) (+15 def enchant)
Thunderheart Waistguard (8 agi gem)
Thunderheart Leggings (8 agi gem) (12 agil/40stam enchant)
Thunderheart Treads (10 agi gem) (12 agi enchant)
Thunderheart Wristguards (8 agi gem)
Thunderheart Gauntlets (18 stam gem)
Ring of the Stalwart Protector
Angelista's Revenge
Badge of Tenacity
Figurine - Empyrean Tortoise
Slikk's Cloak of Placation (12 agi enchant)
Stanchion of Primal Instinct (35 agi enchant)
Idol of Terror

Sadly, I am limited to +8 agi in many gem slots due to my badge gem vendor not being opened (and a critical shortage of spinels horde-side, period). The resil gems are to keep me uncrittable in my level 73 tanking gear, but if I ever get a shadowmoon insignia I can push those to agil/hit gems.

Any suggestions are welcome to tweak this.

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Old 06/27/08, 5:19 PM   #4284
Falk
Soda Popinski
 
Falk
Night Elf Druid
 
No WoW Account
This is probably at nitpick level, but you could swap exalted hyjal ring in for Angelista's and get a minor boost in HP.

Then again, if you aren't dying, the armor pen will be a small boost in your DPS for P2.

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Old 06/27/08, 7:14 PM   #4285
cana
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Alleria (EU)
Originally Posted by Mezoth View Post
[...]

Thunderheart Cover (8agi/agi meta gem) (17dodge/16def enchant)
Necklace of the Juggernaut
Merciless Gladiator's Dragonhide Spaulders (8 agi/4agi-4hit gems) (15 dodge/10def enchant)
Thunderheart Chestguard (15stam/7stam-5resil/8agi gems) (+15 def enchant)
Thunderheart Waistguard (8 agi gem)
Thunderheart Leggings (8 agi gem) (12 agil/40stam enchant)
Thunderheart Treads (10 agi gem) (12 agi enchant)
Thunderheart Wristguards (8 agi gem)
Thunderheart Gauntlets (18 stam gem)
Ring of the Stalwart Protector
Angelista's Revenge
Badge of Tenacity
Figurine - Empyrean Tortoise
Slikk's Cloak of Placation (12 agi enchant)
Stanchion of Primal Instinct (35 agi enchant)
Idol of Terror
[...]
I assume you're only wearing PvP Spaulders for the Resilience?
If that is true and you possess any other Item with more Agility, you could use [Elixir of Ironskin] for remaining uncrittable.
And vs. level 71 opponents you could as well swap [Necklace of the Juggernaut] for [Necklace of the Deep](2x 8agi) and gain another ~0.6% dodge

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Old 06/28/08, 8:23 AM   #4286
Skysec
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Archimonde
From WWI, they're changing windfury to a buff, so druids will finally be able to benefit from it in forms.

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Old 06/28/08, 10:33 AM   #4287
Mijae
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Skysec View Post
From WWI, they're changing windfury to a buff, so druids will finally be able to benefit from it in forms.
It's already a buff and druids don't benefit from it... They would need to change the mechanics of how the buff is applied or managed for it to make a difference.

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Old 06/28/08, 10:41 AM   #4288
Pitbuller
King Hippo
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Wildhammer (EU)
* Windfury won't be a weapon enchant anymore and will be changed to a buff. You will be able to use it in bear form or with poison.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

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Old 06/28/08, 10:48 AM   #4289
charriu
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Gorgonnash (EU)
All I can say is finally. And YES! One thing hindering our scaling gone away.

I just hope they don't do it they way they did in TBC - make ferals OP and nerf them afterwards.

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Old 06/28/08, 11:01 AM   #4290
Pitbuller
King Hippo
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Wildhammer (EU)
# Totems are being "condensed" into a smaller amount of totems, for exemple Strength of Earth and Grace of Air totems will be merged into the same totem
# Totems will also affect raid members, not just the local party.

Also you get agi with wf too and no more totem twisting needed.(briljant solutin without nerf)

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

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