Feral Megathread - Page 299

Panzerkin · 07/14/08, 12:02 PM

It would seem impossible to me to have tank gear worth anything without some decent dps gear to go along with it. Even offspec rolls for dps gear would eventually give you a decent set if your raid attendance was semi decent. Apparently some people really like hording void crystals instead of being useful to their raids...

Edit: Getting a decent dps set from za/t4 raids/badge gear isn't that difficult. You won't top any damage meters (which you won't ever do anyway), but it is far superior to dpsing in tank gear. So any feral druid saying they have no dps set just seems lazy to me.

ganwb79 · 07/14/08, 12:21 PM

Yeah, been getting in on every RoS in the week but the pendant of titans refuses to drop. I have used commendation before but I swear the ability to trinket on every stomp has saved my skin more than once.

I would really have liked to start replacing some of my +15 sta with crimson spinels but as it stands now I am at ~ 20k hp for brut fully buffed (I don't get commanding shout or bloodpact). Is it advisable to go under 20k hp for this fight?

Astrylian · 07/14/08, 12:50 PM

Heh, I'm in the opposite boat. Lately, I've been a 'bear and only a bear'. We've been progressing through Sunwell, and buying 2/3 finished BT instances from other guilds on mondays. Usually just Mother+ up, sometimes BB too. I tank for all of those, and everything in Sunwell...

...So when our instance purchase fell through and we started a full clear of BT last night, I realized that it had been like a month since I had DPSed in a serious raid. I screwed up my rotation right and left, was horrible.

♦ Regen · 07/14/08, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by ganwb79

Yeah, been getting in on every RoS in the week but the pendant of titans refuses to drop. I have used commendation before but I swear the ability to trinket on every stomp has saved my skin more than once.

I would really have liked to start replacing some of my +15 sta with crimson spinels but as it stands now I am at ~ 20k hp for brut fully buffed (I don't get commanding shout or bloodpact). Is it advisable to go under 20k hp for this fight?

I would most definitely not drop yourself below 21k~ I'm not sure why you are so low (probably commendation) but I use a decent amount of avoidance gear for brut and also do not get commanding/bloodpact (only Stam in helm/legs usually).

EDIT: Tauren are Overpowered

Garanthir · 07/14/08, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by ganwb79

Yeah, been getting in on every RoS in the week but the pendant of titans refuses to drop. I have used commendation before but I swear the ability to trinket on every stomp has saved my skin more than once.

I would really have liked to start replacing some of my +15 sta with crimson spinels but as it stands now I am at ~ 20k hp for brut fully buffed (I don't get commanding shout or bloodpact). Is it advisable to go under 20k hp for this fight?

Bah I had a nice post all made up, but the Interwebs ate it.

Anyway I'd say 20k is as low as you would want to go. SWP favors stam(at least early on it seems), but the real key to Brut is clear concise tank communication and healers being on the ball. We've killed Brut 3 times and on 2 of those kills I've been a tank along with a Warrior. At each transition we simply say "preparing to taunt" pause a second or so and then "taunting". Whenever possible let the other tank eat the Stomp and then taunt. Taunting right in to a Stomp is really bad. My gear is roughly similar to yours (except Illidan hates me and I still rock a T4 chest) and I use the BB trinket over the Stop Watch (I'd use the Commendation over that if I could get one to drop). So I'd say your gear is not the limiting factor, if anything a bit low on stam, but that's about it.

On edit: Don't forget to use nightmare seeds!

kalbear · 07/14/08, 5:55 PM

I'm in a similar boat to others; I tank first, DPS second, and am not allowed to bid on DPS gear. Which is kinda ironic given that for a large chunk of fights where I am (BT) I DPS if I'm there at all. But it's still not hard to get a DPS set from that. Most of the better DPS gear is badge gear anyway or is hybrid gear, a few pieces are PvP, and a couple others are just lucky drops that no one else wanted. It seems very, very odd to not have any alternate DPS gear.

Mijae · 07/14/08, 7:08 PM

There is absolutely no excuse to be without a dps set. If you're in a T6 guild you should at least have 2t4/2t6. Using the T6 legs and gloves even with pure stam gems in them is still damn good. Sure I am last in line for all dps upgrades in 25 mans and most I'll never get, but they're are pretty minor upgrades for us anyway. You can use any old tier gear and regem for dps. Even kara dps gear is still decent (I'm still using the cloak). Almost every slot can easily be filled by pvp or badge gear.

Alandriel · 07/14/08, 7:09 PM

Originally Posted by Darkkazul

If he claims to be a bear and only bear then he is useless... One of the main advantages of being a feral is the ability to dps during offtank/not needed tank bosses. I've actually never seen someone who's only a tank but its much more common to see feral druids say, "Oh, you wanted a tank? I only dps." We're not a dps class, we're a tanking/dpsing/healing (screw you KJ)/oomkining class.

Why would a guild keep a feral in for DPS?

Serious question here - our guild will rotate out a feral for a dps sitting on most any boss. How do you justify your spot if there is a DPS sitting of any flavor? Our roster is 35ish at the moment, and if 30 people are on, extra tanks aren't needed and get sat. Unless the fight is dynamic (Muru, for instance), a mage goes in for the feral.

Astrylian · 07/14/08, 7:20 PM

Some guilds aren't that hardcore, and prefer to maintain one raidgroup for the whole night.

Also, they could just be better players. I've never DPS'd for Brut, but based on Teron performance, I expect I could hit 1700-1800 dps, plus the impact of 5% crit for my group, Faerie Fire, and Mangle. It's not amazing, but it's probably enough to beat a bad to mediocre pure-DPSer.

seminarca · 07/14/08, 7:52 PM

I'm also tank first, DPS second. We run with a progression minded loot council system as most Sunwell guilds seem to be using nowadays.

I've had no qualms about passing DPS stuff to other classes, I've even gone as far as passing DPS leather ([Insidious Bands], [Shadowmaster's Boots], [Don Alejandro's Money Belt]) to Enhancement Shamans and Ret Paladins .. not to mention shared drops like [Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape] or [Choker of Endless Nightmares] I wouldn't even dream of taking over some of our regular, solid DPS players. This kind of system works great when everyone is on the same page (ethics/greed wise).

Having said that, Ferals are by no means without options, considering outside of raid items. As people have mentioned, 2T4 is pretty much mandatory for DPS, and once you can swing it, 4T6 is pretty decent, even if gemmed/enchanted for tanking (choosing the best compromise where possible .. e.g. T6 gloves and pants with Shiftings or Delicates wouldn't be horrible for DPS). That's 6 out of the 8 main slots taken care of. Vindicator's Dragonhide stuff (or Guardian's if you can get the rating) is still great for DPS, and [Belt of Deep Shadow] isn't a poor option either. Much of the Vengeful Dragonhide (or Brutal, again, if you can get the rating) is also well worth looking into, and then you've got the latest round of badge items (e.g. [Trousers of the Scryers' Retainer]) to fill in gaps. [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might] is trivial to get, and a very decent filler item. Then you've got [Cloak of Fiends], [Drape of the Dark Reavers] is still alright and at worst you can always get a [Vengeance Wrap]. Finally, [Shard of Contempt] and [Berserker's Call] or [Bloodlust Brooch] is a solid trinket setup if you haven't been lucky enough to PuG yourself a DST.

You end up with a fairly respectable set, and though it won't be as powerful as having "best in slot", it will still be pretty close.

Oaken · 07/14/08, 9:16 PM

Originally Posted by Alandriel

Why would a guild keep a feral in for DPS?

Serious question here - our guild will rotate out a feral for a dps sitting on most any boss. How do you justify your spot if there is a DPS sitting of any flavor? Our roster is 35ish at the moment, and if 30 people are on, extra tanks aren't needed and get sat. Unless the fight is dynamic (Muru, for instance), a mage goes in for the feral.

Serious answer here - it depends on lots of things. For example, I've dps'd on Felmyst (I've MT'd him too). Why? Because we wanted a warrior tank in just in case the shield drops and we want to give the ferals the boot token so swapping one for the other doesn't make sense. Do I do as much dps as a rogue? Hardly but if we wipe on Felmyst its not because we lack a few hundred dps.

You don't need perfect raid makeup after you've geared up a bit and learned the encounters. And if you're in a guild that won't try something on farm just because you haven't maxed every single raid slot...well, I guess you can decide if that's the way you want to roll. Seems kind of limiting to me.

ganwb79 · 07/14/08, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Regen

I would most definitely not drop yourself below 21k~ I'm not sure why you are so low (probably commendation) but I use a decent amount of avoidance gear for brut and also do not get commanding/bloodpact (only Stam in helm/legs usually).

EDIT: Tauren are Overpowered

Originally Posted by Garanthir

Bah I had a nice post all made up, but the Interwebs ate it.

Anyway I'd say 20k is as low as you would want to go. SWP favors stam(at least early on it seems), but the real key to Brut is clear concise tank communication and healers being on the ball. We've killed Brut 3 times and on 2 of those kills I've been a tank along with a Warrior. At each transition we simply say "preparing to taunt" pause a second or so and then "taunting". Whenever possible let the other tank eat the Stomp and then taunt. Taunting right in to a Stomp is really bad. My gear is roughly similar to yours (except Illidan hates me and I still rock a T4 chest) and I use the BB trinket over the Stop Watch (I'd use the Commendation over that if I could get one to drop). So I'd say your gear is not the limiting factor, if anything a bit low on stam, but that's about it.

On edit: Don't forget to use nightmare seeds!

Yes, going under 20k hp is rather taboo to me too. On other bosses I use Commendation + BoT so I have been keeping somewhat close to 21k. I used a countdown macro going 3,2,1 and then taunting afterwards for last night's attempts, seems to help.

Wow Web Stats

I managed to survive through the 6 minutes here and got one-shot by the enrage

Question about nightmare seeds, when do I pop them? I usually macro up to drink an ironshield potion and barkskin 5 seconds before slash cooldown is up and taunt after that. Do I pop the seed at the same time? I'm rather apprehensive of using cancelform to pop the seed while Brut is beating on me.

seminarca · 07/14/08, 11:56 PM

Using Nightmare Seed at that time is what I've been doing as well. It lasts for 30 seconds, which is about the same amount of time as one tank keeps him for. You can judge based on the Stomp cooldown whether Nightmare Seed will last through it (Stomp cooldown remaining + 10 seconds .. if that's less than 30 seconds, you're safe to use Nightmare Seed).

Loreki · 07/15/08, 1:01 AM

I'm using the formula from bear comparisons to make a spreadsheet which will let me enter the crit reduction of each of my items and add it up to total given reduction as a percentage.

While I have no doubt the formula is right as posted, I'm less confident in my spreadsheet making abilities.
Could someone please check for me that the figures shown in the following image (78resilence and 74 defence rating) do in fact add up to 3.21% crit reduction.

Thank you in advance.

Inaiwae · 07/15/08, 3:37 AM

Originally Posted by Junakit

On a tangent, I've just seen yet another feral app to a guild that claims to be a tank and not have any DPS gear worth mentioning. The last guy I saw like this literally DPSed in full tank gear, in all its stamina-gemmed glory. Am I just weird for expecting other druids to have both sets of gear? How common is the "bear and only bear" syndrome?

If he does not have dps gear, he is only half-usefull even if i consider tanking duties only. My offtank / trash tanking set is basically 1/2 dps set. In true tank gear my threat on trash is pathetic and it would slow the raid down.

As for the druid sitting out when he's not tanking - i think this is based on lack of proper dps gear or lack of skill, because in BT cat druids can do very nice damage. The first fight in the whole game where i'd consider sitting out as dmg is Brutallus (first kill).

edit: or maybe i am not hardcore enough to consider small dmg difference relevant on fights which are not that big dps races?

@ Loreki: offtopic - cant you make use of the macro that evaluates resilience and defense and lets you know the chance to be critted? It seems much more convenient than entering stuff in spreadsheet:

/script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(2.6-(GetCombatRatingBonus(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)*.04+GetCombatRatingBonus(CR_CRIT_TAKEN_MELEE)),1,0.5,0)

(assumes 3/3 SotF)